Ayrshire Saints Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said: So you are saying that a team in the same league as us could not go the extra mile and out bid us for a player that they desperately needed having lost their two best players who play in that CB position - If Livi had no debt, Popescu could be a real option for them. They do have debt though. Motherwell, the Fakes, and Ross County (who have a bank roller) though could.. If our best bid is £120k, I am sure some other team who saw him last season could go £150k Seriously ??? Do you realise the last time (never in some cases you mention) any of these clubs paid £350k for a player. Certainly doubt it would be post Bosman era. The days of anyone outside the OF, Aberdeen or Hearts (possibly Hibs) paying that sort of cash are long, long gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said: Seriously ??? Do you realise the last time (never in some cases you mention) any of these clubs paid £350k for a player. Certainly doubt it would be post Bosman era. The days of anyone outside the OF, Aberdeen or Hearts (possibly Hibs) paying that sort of cash are long, long gone. You may well be right - recent history supports this - but it may swing back a bit at some point - e.g. we paid £75 (reputedly) for Heaton, Hearts paid £170k for Goncalves (Though you do mention Hearts). I think Motherwell will have some money to splash with the Hastie money and especially if Turnbull goes for over a million too... Edited June 4, 2019 by Sweeper07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 You may well be right - recent history supports this - but it may swing back a bit at some point - e.g. we paid £75 (reputedly) for Heaton, Hearts paid £170k for Goncalves (Though you do mention Hearts). I think Motherwell will have some money to splash with the Hastie money and especially of Turnbull goes for over a million too...Don't see it personally and no Scottish club will be paying 350k for Popescu imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 So you are saying that a team in the same league as us could not go the extra mile and out bid us for a player that they desperately needed having lost their two best players who play in that CB position - If Livi had no debt, Popescu could be a real option for them. They do have debt though. Motherwell, the Fakes, and Ross County (who have a bank roller) though could.. If our best bid is £120k, I am sure some other team who saw him last season could go £150kNo even without debt, the current version of Livingston couldn't outbid us for players. Ffs we took Danny of them last year for a pittence before they were declaring huge losses.They have no fan base and no millionaire backers so they along with Hamilton will not out bid us for a player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnus Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: No even without debt, the current version of Livingston couldn't outbid us for players. Ffs we took Danny of them last year for a pittence before they were declaring huge losses. They have no fan base and no millionaire backers so they along with Hamilton will not out bid us for a player. Very valid points . Given that budget normally determines league position I do hope that the Board back Oran financially. I think Oran has an eye for a player. If our budget is in the ballpark of 9th largest we could be in for a way less stressful season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Ayrshire Saints said: 3 hours ago, Sweeper07 said: You may well be right - recent history supports this - but it may swing back a bit at some point - e.g. we paid £75 (reputedly) for Heaton, Hearts paid £170k for Goncalves (Though you do mention Hearts). I think Motherwell will have some money to splash with the Hastie money and especially of Turnbull goes for over a million too... Don't see it personally and no Scottish club will be paying 350k for Popescu imo. I don't either and I think he could be bought for a lot less . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said: No even without debt, the current version of Livingston couldn't outbid us for players. Ffs we took Danny of them last year for a pittence before they were declaring huge losses. They have no fan base and no millionaire backers so they along with Hamilton will not out bid us for a player. They were in already big debt when we took Danny from them . . . this last season though they have picked up Premiership money without a big outlay for players, including wages as they retained so many players from the season before... agreed though their fan base is poor - however, they benefit from increased crowds by being in the Premiership now, in the exact same way Hamilton do... If the 30+ million per year comes in season 20-21 it could effect exactly this kind of thing. This is why English teams are paying for players - extra revenue, bigger stakes, bigger gamble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldo_j Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 47 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said: They were in already big debt when we took Danny from them . . . this last season though they have picked up Premiership money without a big outlay for players, including wages as they retained so many players from the season before... agreed though their fan base is poor - however, they benefit from increased crowds by being in the Premiership now, in the exact same way Hamilton do... If the 30+ million per year comes in season 20-21 it could effect exactly this kind of thing. This is why English teams are paying for players - extra revenue, bigger stakes, bigger gamble Sorry bud, but you’re talking complete nonsense. No club will pay upwards of £150k for Popescu, especially the likes of Livvy. Only the Old Firm and Aberdeen will pay transfer fees, and the Edinburgh teams seem to prefer investing that money in wages rather than fees. Livvy definitely won’t. That’s at least two, very strong, free agents wages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, aldo_j said: Sorry bud, but you’re talking complete nonsense. No club will pay upwards of £150k for Popescu, especially the likes of Livvy. Only the Old Firm and Aberdeen will pay transfer fees, and the Edinburgh teams seem to prefer investing that money in wages rather than fees. Livvy definitely won’t. That’s at least two, very strong, free agents wages. I did not say Livi would as I clearly said they were heavily in debt, however, I do understand where you are coming from... So with more money in the pot from the end of next season on - you think all Premiership clubs bar 3 will only use it for wages and certainly not for transfers? Bear in mind Hibs brought in Kamberi for £100k plus his agents fee (Hibs spent £107,250 on agents fees last year) Edited June 4, 2019 by Sweeper07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldo_j Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 42 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said: I did not say Livi would as I clearly said they were heavily in debt, however, I do understand where you are coming from... So with more money in the pot from the end of next season on - you think all Premiership clubs bar 3 will only use it for wages and certainly not for transfers? Bear in mind Hibs brought in Kamberi for £100k plus his agents fee (Hibs spent £107,250 on agents fees last year) That was based on his form then. I wouldn’t say that’s been a great investment. Other than McGinn, I don’t recall them spending much. Agent fees are part of it, and if you’re looking for a slightly better calibre then it’s a necessary evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 40 minutes ago, aldo_j said: That was based on his form then. I wouldn’t say that’s been a great investment. Other than McGinn, I don’t recall them spending much. Agent fees are part of it, and if you’re looking for a slightly better calibre then it’s a necessary evil. Kamberi scored 13 goals in 43 games last season - it is not devastatingly good but better than anyone in our squad managed (Danny Mullen 7 for e.g.) but he was clearly unhappy about things and eventually Lennon "left" - we will see if it was a good investment next season... (He has two more years on his contract... IF I were "Investing" for St. Mirren and could pick up 2 strikers who would score 13 goals each next season, (£100,000 x 2) £200,000 would be a decent outlay, especially if they were going to stick around and maintain this sort of form OR be sold on at a profit . . . There is a real chance Hladky will go for a fee from us too . . . (we only have him with one year remaining) best we extend his contract anyway if we can . . . Since we risked a chunk on Heaton the question remains, will we pay a fee for Popescu - if not it is doubtful he will be back with us . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldo_j Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 38 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said: Kamberi scored 13 goals in 43 games last season - it is not devastatingly good but better than anyone in our squad managed (Danny Mullen 7 for e.g.) but he was clearly unhappy about things and eventually Lennon "left" - we will see if it was a good investment next season... (He has two more years on his contract... IF I were "Investing" for St. Mirren and could pick up 2 strikers who would score 13 goals each next season, (£100,000 x 2) £200,000 would be a decent outlay, especially if they were going to stick around and maintain this sort of form OR be sold on at a profit . . . There is a real chance Hladky will go for a fee from us too . . . (we only have him with one year remaining) best we extend his contract anyway if we can . . . Since we risked a chunk on Heaton the question remains, will we pay a fee for Popescu - if not it is doubtful he will be back with us . . . You’ve talked about playing the game, so surely there are a couple of things from the above that you’d question? 1. Flo Kamberi, in our side, would have struggled to reach 13 goals. Hibs got lucky that they had a £100k agreed fee post his loan, and I believe Sunderland were quoted +£500k to get him. 2. Spending money on a transfer fee guarantees f**k aw. See Heaton, Josh. The last fee before that was Imrie...shite n’all. 3. The strikers that have scored the most goals for us in the top flight, across recent times, were Higdon and Thompson. Both free transfers. Anyway, I wouldn’t advocate spending over £100k on signing Popescu. Yes, he was a good loan signing, but there are plenty of others out there at a similar level that won’t look for that sort of transfer fee. We hadn’t heard of him 6 months ago, and we probably won’t have heard of the new ‘Popescu’ either. If it’s a toss up of investing £200k on Popescu or signing two proven performers at this level on frees then I choose the later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, aldo_j said: You’ve talked about playing the game, so surely there are a couple of things from the above that you’d question? 1. Flo Kamberi, in our side, would have struggled to reach 13 goals. Hibs got lucky that they had a £100k agreed fee post his loan, and I believe Sunderland were quoted +£500k to get him. 2. Spending money on a transfer fee guarantees f**k aw. See Heaton, Josh. The last fee before that was Imrie...shite n’all. 3. The strikers that have scored the most goals for us in the top flight, across recent times, were Higdon and Thompson. Both free transfers. Anyway, I wouldn’t advocate spending over £100k on signing Popescu. Yes, he was a good loan signing, but there are plenty of others out there at a similar level that won’t look for that sort of transfer fee. We hadn’t heard of him 6 months ago, and we probably won’t have heard of the new ‘Popescu’ either. If it’s a toss up of investing £200k on Popescu or signing two proven performers at this level on frees then I choose the later. I like that you are firing reasonable points and trust you appreciate I am too.. 1. We have no idea if Kamberi would have struggled in our side. Until February, I think the likelihood was very high, but if he clicked, it might have been very different from February on... given that Mullen got 7 and Jackson scored 6, would Kamberi not have bettered either of them if conditions, attitude etc were right.. it is all very hypothetical. So Hibs got lucky - they gambles and win - that supports my points. And if Sunderland or ?? come in next January or the summer following with £?000,000 Hibs will have made a very decent return as well as his services.. 2. Agreed, it can go either way, and the market in Scotland tends not to go in favour nearly as often as it goes the wrong way. You say Imrie was shite, but I suspect a lot of folk at Hamilton think otherwise - he proved to be a great servant to them and has played at a higher level than ST. Mirren for a number of seasons... 3. Great - where are the next free transfers that will be great for us? Strikers who are any good are "highly prized" The good thing is neither of us gets to pick how the budget will be spent - and we will both get to see who gets brought in . . . Edited June 5, 2019 by Sweeper07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted June 4, 2019 Report Share Posted June 4, 2019 On 6/3/2019 at 4:51 PM, Buddie-Boy said: Dinamo have just sacked their manager today. Can't decide if this is good news or bad for us trying to get Popescu & Corbu? I'm not surprised they sacked him if he thinks Ziggy Gordon is better than Popescu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madball Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 15 hours ago, Sweeper07 said: They were in already big debt when we took Danny from them . . . this last season though they have picked up Premiership money without a big outlay for players, including wages as they retained so many players from the season before... agreed though their fan base is poor - however, they benefit from increased crowds by being in the Premiership now, in the exact same way Hamilton do... If the 30+ million per year comes in season 20-21 it could effect exactly this kind of thing. This is why English teams are paying for players - extra revenue, bigger stakes, bigger gamble Problem for Livi this season, setting aside debt for a moment, is that their squad which served them well over the last 3 years is now being asset stripped by other clubs. They are losing significant numbers of experienced pros (most on frees) who have been in all reality over-achieving with regards to the expenditure against them, and these are the players that were galvanised as a group over the years with a few additions each time. Next season they require to do major surgery on a squad that was light to start with, paying way more money that they have on previous seasons against a budget that, whilst will have gone up against expectations, will be no better than 10th in the league (and likely be 11th or 12th). With the amount of recruitment needed they will either need to push boat out on 2-3 quality players and supplement with cheap journeymen hoping they find a gem, or more likely not be able to attract quality players and employ a scattergun approach hoping they can gel the squad quickly and repeat the success of the last couple of years minus the leaders they had Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, madball said: Problem for Livi this season, setting aside debt for a moment, is that their squad which served them well over the last 3 years is now being asset stripped by other clubs. They are losing significant numbers of experienced pros (most on frees) who have been in all reality over-achieving with regards to the expenditure against them, and these are the players that were galvanised as a group over the years with a few additions each time. Next season they require to do major surgery on a squad that was light to start with, paying way more money that they have on previous seasons against a budget that, whilst will have gone up against expectations, will be no better than 10th in the league (and likely be 11th or 12th). With the amount of recruitment needed they will either need to push boat out on 2-3 quality players and supplement with cheap journeymen hoping they find a gem, or more likely not be able to attract quality players and employ a scattergun approach hoping they can gel the squad quickly and repeat the success of the last couple of years minus the leaders they had Yes, totally agree - they have now lost the best 3 players and the heart of their defence - 2 CB's and their international Goalie. So far they have re-signed Lawless, who was not a regular 90 minute player, and Barkley from Hibs, who TBH is average... Unless as you say they bring in 3 guys who perform incredibly well, I think 11th or 12th is on the cards for them. This is good news for us, and along with Hamilton and perhaps Ross County, it could permit us to finish 4th bottom (or better) and safe weeks before the season ends - though not amazing, it would be a most welcome improvement for us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madball Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 27 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said: Yes, totally agree - they have now lost the best 3 players and the heart of their defence - 2 CB's and their international Goalie. So far they have re-signed Lawless, who was not a regular 90 minute player, and Barkley from Hibs, who TBH is average... Unless as you say they bring in 3 guys who perform incredibly well, I think 11th or 12th is on the cards for them. This is good news for us, and along with Hamilton and perhaps Ross County, it could permit us to finish 4th bottom (or better) and safe weeks before the season ends - though not amazing, it would be a most welcome improvement for us... And unless Rangers decide to loan Hardie out to them again they will have lost him too. I suspect Rangers will look to move Hardie on permanently to someone, likely looking for some fee to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 2 hours ago, madball said: And unless Rangers decide to loan Hardie out to them again they will have lost him too. I suspect Rangers will look to move Hardie on permanently to someone, likely looking for some fee to do so. In all seriousness who would pay a fee for Hardie. He has not exactly shone this year. Championship level at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, insaintee said: In all seriousness who would pay a fee for Hardie. He has not exactly shone this year. Championship level at best. Agree - He has scored a few goals 7 just like Mullen, and Halkett similarly 7 too; with Gallacher on 1. They would start having lost 13 league goals from last season's line up.. I suspect Hardie will be released though and end up back at them or Ross County. (Hamilton at a push) He could do a job as a sub, but agree not really a great 90 minutes Premiership Striker.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madball Posted June 5, 2019 Report Share Posted June 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said: Agree - He has scored a few goals 7 just like Mullen, and Halkett similarly 7 too; with Gallacher on 1. They would start having lost 13 league goals from last season's line up.. I suspect Hardie will be released though and end up back at them or Ross County. (Hamilton at a push) He could do a job as a sub, but agree not really a great 90 minutes Premiership Striker.. Rangers clearly rate as they gave him a new 1 year deal in January. His overall return is better than Mullen considering he played only 22 games this season vs Danny at 30. He's clumsy, but does score goals and someone will look at him and think if he stays fit he'll be worth a punt. I suspect that Rangers will likely look to move him down south next season on loan or look for fees from clubs up here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 Looks like Ziggy Gordon's move to Bucharest has fallen through following the manager being sacked so clearly some Turmoil at that club. Not sure if that is good or bad for us mind you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Ayrshire Saints said: Looks like Ziggy Gordon's move to Bucharest has fallen through following the manager being sacked so clearly some Turmoil at that club. Not sure if that is good or bad for us mind you. Well I take it that means he will be back at Hamilton next Season... He actually was one of their better players, but not with class, simply aggression and physicality . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 Well I take it that means he will be back at Hamilton next Season... He actually was one of their better players, but not with class, simply aggression and physicality . . . I think he would do a good job for us and maybe he would like to play on grass more. Sure we could pay him more than the Accies could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, renfrew said: 6 hours ago, Sweeper07 said: Well I take it that means he will be back at Hamilton next Season... He actually was one of their better players, but not with class, simply aggression and physicality . . . I think he would do a good job for us and maybe he would like to play on grass more. Sure we could pay him more than the Accies could. Where would he play for us? LB? There is something positive about him, but I don't think he would be a cheap option on the wage bill, hence the reason why he was heading away from Hamilton - it may be a bit different now, but who knows. I guess too it would be better that he was with us than at our opponents like Livi, Ross County etc. Edited June 7, 2019 by Sweeper07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 On 6/5/2019 at 1:57 PM, madball said: Rangers clearly rate as they gave him a new 1 year deal in January. Have you seen the shite that they signed last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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