Stubbs breaks his Silence

[djchapsticks]

9 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Can you not read? Kearney was given extra funds to bring three in outside the window swelling the squad to 28. This had to be offset so many were moved, even though that still cost to do so. With so may going out it was undoubtedly going to bring the budget down, however with a whole swathe of loan deals for players who look like they will be on more than£700 a week recently added. Even the slashing of 13-14 playing staff wont offset all thise loan deals and increased backroom staff.

when the figures come out in tbe next set of accounts we will have spent probably  the seventh or so highest amount in this league. Lets see what place we get for that.

That bolded part is the key. I now understand that you don't actually know the difference between a budget and a wage bill.

A budget is set. Releasing 14 players doesn't bump a budget down, it bumps the wage bill down.Just as signing players bump it up. The budget remains the budget.

Whether we are working within or outwith the constraints of that budget is something neither you or I know as a fact. You are still speculating as you always do. You certainly cannot say with any conviction that we're the seventh highest spenders in the league without concrete evidence of this.

[DougJamie]

16 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

That bolded part is the key. I now understand that you don't actually know the difference between a budget and a wage bill.

A budget is set. Releasing 14 players doesn't bump a budget down, it bumps the wage bill down.Just as signing players bump it up. The budget remains the budget.

Whether we are working within or outwith the constraints of that budget is something neither you or I know as a fact. You are still speculating as you always do. You certainly cannot say with any conviction that we're the seventh highest spenders in the league without concrete evidence of this.

DJ stop bringing facts into a discussion with LPM

 

You are wasting your time

[Lord Pityme]

40 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

That bolded part is the key. I now understand that you don't actually know the difference between a budget and a wage bill.

A budget is set. Releasing 14 players doesn't bump a budget down, it bumps the wage bill down.Just as signing players bump it up. The budget remains the budget.

Whether we are working within or outwith the constraints of that budget is something neither you or I know as a fact. You are still speculating as you always do. You certainly cannot say with any conviction that we're the seventh highest spenders in the league without concrete evidence of this.

I would say with a degree of certainty we have/will spend more than Hamilton, Livvy,  St Johstone, Dundee, and Motherwell based simply on the number of players we have had on the books since the season started. The only question will be if we surpass Killie's spend? Originally we probably werent on course for that, but there would be no surprise if we do, again given the numbers we have had on the books compared to them. Got to factor in Heaton's fee, the additional back room staff and spunking the McGinn transfer fee. Something which only Killie and Motherwell had extra funds in from sales.

the wage bill had shot up in the last accounts by an eye watering amount, and that was before Oran took us up to a squad of 28, then started paying them off.

we can stop going round in circles now, and view the actual accounts later this year.

[Sweeper07]

2 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

I would say with a degree of certainty we have/will spend more than Hamilton, Livvy,  St Johstone, Dundee, and Motherwell based simply on the number of players we have had on the books since the season started. The only question will be if we surpass Killie's spend? Originally we probably werent on course for that, but there would be no surprise if we do, again given the numbers we have had on the books compared to them. Got to factor in Heaton's fee, the additional back room staff and spunking the McGinn transfer fee. Something which only Killie and Motherwell had extra funds in from sales.

the wage bill had shot up in the last accounts by an eye watering amount, and that was before Oran took us up to a squad of 28, then started paying them off.

we can stop going round in circles now, and view the actual accounts later this year.

So how is our budget? OR have you moved to wages now? Replace your word certainty with NONSENSE then ignore all the other factors which you were told about but continue to ignore .. .. .  Guys like Samson, Coulson, Willock, BM away early saving money etc. etc. etc.  

Broken record with fake news - have a nice day . . .                                                     

[oaksoft]

56 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

That bolded part is the key. I now understand that you don't actually know the difference between a budget and a wage bill.

 

That's it right there. Thanks. I was struggling to put into words what was bugging me about his posts when he was bringing this up a few weeks ago. I now have the words to explain it.

[Sweeper07]

2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

That's it right there. Thanks. I was struggling to put into words what was bugging me about his posts when he was bringing this up a few weeks ago. I now have the words to explain it.

To be fair - He struggles with a whole load more that this . . . . . . . 

[Magic Monkey]

17 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Can you not read? Kearney was given extra funds to bring three in outside the window swelling the squad to 28. This had to be offset so many were moved, even though that still cost to do so. With so may going out it was undoubtedly going to bring the budget down, however with a whole swathe of loan deals for players who look like they will be on more than£700 a week recently added. Even the slashing of 13-14 playing staff wont offset all thise loan deals and increased backroom staff.

when the figures come out in tbe next set of accounts we will have spent probably  the seventh or so highest amount in this league. Lets see what place we get for that.

So did he have extra funds, or did they have to be offset? 

[Wendy Saintss]

Livi have the same side that won League One and they have supplemented it with 2 Patrick Thistle rejects.

Meanwhile we had 1 regular from last season’s side starting on Saturday.

The real problem is that the foundations of our promotion were built on sand.

Attempting to completely rebuild a squad after promotion was always going to be a struggle.

To then have the manager walk out on us after a significant portion of the close season was gone then dither in the appointment of a replacement compounded matters.

For the BoD to then appoint a manager and then sack him after 4 games was madness.

[Jrok]

So we should have kept Stubbs till when ?

[shull]

Just now, Jrok said:

So we should have kept Stubbs till when ?

Till another Club poached him and paid us compensation. 

[windae cleaner]

30 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

Livi have the same side that won League One and they have supplemented it with 2 Patrick Thistle rejects.

Meanwhile we had 1 regular from last season’s side starting on Saturday.

The real problem is that the foundations of our promotion were built on sand.

Attempting to completely rebuild a squad after promotion was always going to be a struggle.

To then have the manager walk out on us after a significant portion of the close season was gone then dither in the appointment of a replacement compounded matters.

For the BoD to then appoint a manager and then sack him after 4 games was madness.

Would agree until the last 7 words

His transfer window gave us our answer

You alway answered another one the progress that Livi have done with more or less the same squad

Something doesn't sit right over the whole Josh Heaton transfer

[Jrok]

The madness was appointing Stubbs in the first place.

[buddies1877]

Livi have the same side that won League One and they have supplemented it with 2 Patrick Thistle rejects.

Meanwhile we had 1 regular from last season’s side starting on Saturday.

The real problem is that the foundations of our promotion were built on sand.

Attempting to completely rebuild a squad after promotion was always going to be a struggle.

To then have the manager walk out on us after a significant portion of the close season was gone then dither in the appointment of a replacement compounded matters.

For the BoD to then appoint a manager and then sack him after 4 games was madness.

It wasn’t madness to sack Stubbs it was the correct decision the wrong decision was appointing him.

You even called for him to be sacked in the last few days of the summer transfer window.

[Lord Pityme]

1 hour ago, Jrok said:

So we should have kept Stubbs till when ?

Should have ran with him till Christmas. The board appointed him, but failed to support him when some of his decisions back fired. Consider how many experienced back room staff Oran has now? Now why does he get the support, but not his predecessor? Is it just down to the whinging flops who have moved down the leagues now to their real level?

[Magic Monkey]

17 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Now why does he get the support, but not his predecessor?

I think it was identified that, for want a better word, Stubbs was a prick and that his general approach, along with his apparent trust in someone like Darren Jackson, was never going to get the squad (or the fans) onside, no matter how much of a chance we gave him. 

While being a nice guy doesn't count for everything, and some proper twats have succeeded in football management, it's arguable that they all get found out eventually.

Even Jose Mourinho, with all of his pedigree, is starting to be outed as something of a toxic element in his dressing rooms. Stubbs is toxic but has little of the talent.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Magic Monkey

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

17 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Should have ran with him till Christmas. The board appointed him, but failed to support him when some of his decisions back fired. Consider how many experienced back room staff Oran has now? Now why does he get the support, but not his predecessor? Is it just down to the whinging flops who have moved down the leagues now to their real level?

Oran has one more back staff than Stubbs that's the first point. Second point Stubbs has pointed out we had no strategy for recruitment in place. Hello Gus the only extra backroom staff appointed brought in now to deal with recruitment. So don't understand point ? 

[Jrok]

Should have ran with him till Christmas. The board appointed him, but failed to support him when some of his decisions back fired. Consider how many experienced back room staff Oran has now? Now why does he get the support, but not his predecessor? Is it just down to the whinging flops who have moved down the leagues now to their real level?

I get that you are pro Stubbs and anti Oran, but we are comparing apples and oranges here.
Can't you just try and be a bit more of a st mirren fan and knock the negativity.
Or do you enjoy being a troll.

[DougJamie]

1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

Should have ran with him till Christmas. The board appointed him, but failed to support him when some of his decisions back fired. Consider how many experienced back room staff Oran has now? Now why does he get the support, but not his predecessor? Is it just down to the whinging flops who have moved down the leagues now to their real level?

Yeah great idea.................... then with 3 points on the board sack him

Rotherham survived Stubbs , lets hope we can

[Desnold]

22 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Oran apparently has the worst record of any St Mirren manager already ffs. He's been given time and money, yet we sit in the automatic relegation spot. He has lost four games from a winning postion at half time, his tactics and general naivety have cost us points we could not afford to lose. If we are relegated it will sit squarely with him.

1. Both Oran and Ross inherited a sh!t storm.

2. Oran had five more games than Ross before the end of the January window but both started after the summer window was closed.

3. By the end of January, both managers had picked up a total of 9 points through 3 draws and 2 wins.

 

I fully expect history to repeat itself and we will win the league next year after avoiding relegation this year.

The future's bright, the future's Oran

[W6Saint]

3 hours ago, Wendy Saintss said:

Livi have the same side that won League One and they have supplemented it with 2 Patrick Thistle rejects.

To then have the manager walk out on us after a significant portion of the close season was gone then dither in the appointment of a replacement compounded matters.

For the BoD to then appoint a manager and then sack him after 4 games was madness.

They signed more than 2 players.

If we attempted what Livi done the fans would’ve been up in arms about keeping lower league players.

The manager hardly walked out - the club allowed him to talk to a massive club. Nor was it after a significant portion of the close season was gone. The season had been finished a few of weeks - most players were away on holiday and the majority’s contracts ran out in July or at the earliest June 1st.

When exactly were we to keep Stubbs till? The truth will come out about the decision to bag him eventually. That aside though, his recruitment was a good enough reason.

Don’t let facts get in the way of being tedious though.

 

[DougJamie]

5 minutes ago, W6Saint said:

They signed more than 2 players.

If we attempted what Livi done the fans would’ve been up in arms about keeping lower league players.

The manager hardly walked out - the club allowed him to talk to a massive club. Nor was it after a significant portion of the close season was gone. The season had been finished a few of weeks - most players were away on holiday and the majority’s contracts ran out in July or at the earliest June 1st.

When exactly were we to keep Stubbs till? The truth will come out about the decision to bag him eventually. That aside though, his recruitment was a good enough reason.

Don’t let facts get in the way of being tedious though.

 

If we were on 30 points right now I doubt it................. 

[Wendy Saintss]

29 minutes ago, W6Saint said:

They signed more than 2 players.

If we attempted what Livi done the fans would’ve been up in arms about keeping lower league players.

The manager hardly walked out - the club allowed him to talk to a massive club. Nor was it after a significant portion of the close season was gone. The season had been finished a few of weeks - most players were away on holiday and the majority’s contracts ran out in July or at the earliest June 1st.

When exactly were we to keep Stubbs till? The truth will come out about the decision to bag him eventually. That aside though, his recruitment was a good enough reason.

Don’t let facts get in the way of being tedious though.

 

I didn't say that had only signed 2 players!

However, 8 of Livi's starting XI on Saturday were with them in League One. 2 of the other 3 are Partick Thistle rejects while the third is only in the side because a Jack Ross reject wasn't available!

If we were sitting comfortably in the Premier League then the fans would be very happy - regardless of where the players came for.

And what did the manager do after talking to Sunderland? He walked out!

We won the league on 14th April. Jack Ross walked out on 25 May. New season started on 13 July. That's 46% of the close season gone! You don't think that's a significant porion?  

Stubbs was appointed 8 June. He had 38% of the close season left. I'd say that quite a significant portion of the close season was wasted!

Not really sure of the relevance of players being away on holiday, contracts, etc! Does that stop a manager from planning and trying to sign players?

You say that contracts ran out in July or 1 June at the earliest? Well, when exactly is it? Or have you just made that up?

You do realise that you can sign players on pre contract before their current contract expires?

Don't let facts get in the way of being tedious though.

Edited January 29, 2019 by Wendy Saintss

[Lord Pityme]

2 hours ago, Magic Monkey said:

I think it was identified that, for want a better word, Stubbs was a prick and that his general approach, along with his apparent trust in someone like Darren Jackson, was never going to get the squad (or the fans) onside, no matter how much of a chance we gave him. 

While being a nice guy doesn't count for everything, and some proper twats have succeeded in football management, it's arguable that they all get found out eventually.

Even Jose Mourinho, with all of his pedigree, is starting to be outed as something of a toxic element in his dressing rooms. Stubbs is toxic but has little of the talent.

But according to who is he toxic? The whingeing players who went behind his back to the board, and social media, who are now playing their trade in the championship and league one etc..etc..?

[Lord Pityme]

2 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Oran has one more back staff than Stubbs that's the first point. Second point Stubbs has pointed out we had no strategy for recruitment in place. Hello Gus the only extra backroom staff appointed brought in now to deal with recruitment. So don't understand point ? 

So we dont employ Jimmy Nicholl, or Junior Mendes? Come, come young man.

[Bud the Baker]

 

15 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

I didn't say that had only signed 2 players!

However, 8 of Livi's starting XI on Saturday were with them in League One. 2 of the other 3 are Partick Thistle rejects while the third is only in the side because a Jack Ross reject wasn't available!

If we were sitting comfortably in the Premier League then the fans would be very happy - regardless of where the players came for.

And what did the manager do after talking to Sunderland? He walked out!

We won the league on 14th April. Jack Ross walked out on 25 May. New season started on 13 July. That's 46% of the close season gone! You don't think that's a significant porion?  

Stubbs was appointed 8 June. He had 38% of the close season left. I'd say that quite a significant portion of the close season was wasted!

Not really sure of the relevance of players being away on holiday, contracts, etc! Does that stop a manager from planning and trying to sign players?

You say that contracts ran out in July or 1 June at the earliest? Well, when exactly is it? Or have you just made that up?

You do realise that you can sign players on pre contract before their current contract expires?

Don't let facts get in the way of being tedious though.

In his post match interview JR was asked when planning for next season would begin, his answer was "last month", all this pretty much went on hold when Ipswich came in for Ross on May 11th. Despite a clearout by Ross the only two arrivals in May were Kellerman & P. McGinn  (both intended as fringe players IMO) throw in the departures of Davis & Reilly and you're looking at a period of over two months (nearer three if you accept JRs reply) before Stubbsy's first signings were announced  on June 21st.

 

A lot of the blame for our form this season lies with TF for not pursuing JRs targets more vigorously and TF/GLS for not having a successor for JR ready and for appointing a manager who not ready for the squad overhaul on his appointment.