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Strategy! What Strategy?


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I think the difference between players brought in to the old firm on loans are potential signings for them both. It gives them an opportunity to see if they fit into the team and are worth the investment.

For Saints I like Hladky and Popescu and I think Lyons with a few more games and a bit of confidence is a worthy asset, but are we looking at any of these players as possible permanent contracts. The answer is no, they are attempts to get better players in for a short term period who are better than what was there before.

The sad fact is that the Scottish talent sausage machine is not even stuttering, it produces the very odd sausage that steps up to the mark once in a 'blue' moon! :huh:

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7 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

You do know Stubbs hasnt been our manager since matchday four in this league? Its today we are dealing with.

In other words in your opinion Stubbs would be better than Oran. For what it's worth I'm just gutted the way the season has panned out thus far. Importantly most Saints fans will back the team to try and get out of this mess. 

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3 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

In other words in your opinion Stubbs would be better than Oran. For what it's worth I'm just gutted the way the season has panned out thus far. Importantly most Saints fans will back the team to try and get out of this mess. 

There you go again! Stubbs isn't recruiting, picking, coaching or setting out team strategy and tactics. He stopped doing that in September (some might argue before). So continually referencing him in the hope it takes the heat of the current incumbent is purile.

i back the team, but not always necessarily the regime..! The board have f**ked this season end of. We hope come Saturday we can at least still be in the hat at full time, and the new players perform, we pick up league points. Unfortunately form and recent precedent suggest otherwise.

who knows, its a funny old game. 

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1 hour ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

So Stubbs was better than Oran :lol:

Oran has won 14% of league points available to him.

Stubbs won 25% (and this despite half his games being away at Ibrox and Tynecastle). He also topped a League Cup group that included Kilmarnock.

I don't post this in order to show that Stubbs did a great job, rather to show that Oran's record is terrible!

Edited by Wendy Saintss
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1 hour ago, The Original 59er said:

I think the difference between players brought in to the old firm on loans are potential signings for them both. It gives them an opportunity to see if they fit into the team and are worth the investment.

For Saints I like Hladky and Popescu and I think Lyons with a few more games and a bit of confidence is a worthy asset, but are we looking at any of these players as possible permanent contracts. The answer is no, they are attempts to get better players in for a short term period who are better than what was there before.

The sad fact is that the Scottish talent sausage machine is not even stuttering, it produces the very odd sausage that steps up to the mark once in a 'blue' moon! :huh:

Hladky is on an 18 month deal, while Popescu is on loan til the end of the season with a view to a permanent move. Lyons just signed for Blackburn, so I would imagine any permanent deal is out of the question on that one. The Romanian left back is on loan in a similar deal to Propescu I believe, while Muzek is out of contract in the summer, so would be available to sign permanently if we choose.

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5 hours ago, Paisley brazilians said:

Problem hear is that the players that have signed in the last window. loanee or permanent a lot of them lack match fitness and match sharpness. overall they are a better calibre of player.but they need 7 or 8 games to get up to speed and gel and unfortunately we do not have that time. 

Hladky and Popescu look already up to speed. I expect the likes of Lyons, Dreyer and Tansey to be not far behind, with the Duck and the new full backs getting there also. 

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3 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

So take the alternative to crash & burn, when perhaps someone else could inject the passion to fight till the last?

doing nothing is the option of the clueless, bit like Tansey last night. Huge expensive mistakes ave been made, should we let them make more?

There would be no guarantee either way so the sensible business decision is definitely wait and see for this season especially given what has gone on so far. I would speculate no new manager would keep us up so why throw more money at it. OK has as much chance of pulling off the miracle than any new manager would.

What exactly are you advocating ?

Edited by Ayrshire Saints
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30 minutes ago, Soctty said:

Hladky and Popescu look already up to speed. I expect the likes of Lyons, Dreyer and Tansey to be not far behind, with the Duck and the new full backs getting there also. 

If that pair are almost up to speed they are even poorer players than I thought. They are either miles off the pace match fitness wise or totally disinterested / hopeless ! 

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6 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

There would be no guarantee either way so the sensible business decision is definitely wait and see for this season especially given what has gone on so far. I would speculate no new manager would keep us up so why throw more money at it. OK has as much chance of pulling off the miracle than any new manager would.

What exactly are you advocating ?

I go with your take on this Ayrshire. 

We have thrown enough money at short term fixes this season. 

Patience and a clear head are needed.

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2 hours ago, Wendy Saintss said:

Oran has won 14% of league points available to him.

Stubbs won 25% (and this despite half his games being away at Ibrox and Tynecastle). He also topped a League Cup group that included Kilmarnock.

I don't post this in order to show that Stubbs did a great job, rather to show that Oran's record is terrible!

No he didn't.  He only won one game.  And had we not won 3 games on penalties, Dumbarton would have finished above us.

edit - I think I'm wrong there!!

 

image.png

Edited by Buddie-Boy
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34 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

There would be no guarantee either way so the sensible business decision is definitely wait and see for this season especially given what has gone on so far. I would speculate no new manager would keep us up so why throw more money at it. OK has as much chance of pulling off the miracle than any new manager would.

What exactly are you advocating ?

The opposite of doing nothing, as doing nothing guarantees... nothing.

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32 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

Okay, we qualified from a group that contained Kilmarnock and were undefeated!

Is this still an argument over Alan Stubbs? 

Right or wrong... He has gone.  It's the strategy for the future that matters. 

For my money that means running with OK and seeing where that takes us this season. 

Strategy should be reviewed often and it would be natural to revisit things as the season draws to a close.

Making decisions before then would be foolhardy and potentially expensive. 

Edited by St.Ricky
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7 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Listened to Oran's post match interview on the radio last night and what came across was FEAR. The guy had so little to say about the game just gone, or indeed how he saw us getting out of our predicament!

 Not once were the words "Fight, Passion or Hard Work" used.

incredibly he seemed to be talking up Saturdays game against Dundee Utd as the most important in our season, and making Utd out to be almost Barcelonaesque in his belief of how they would shape up!

ask most buds what they think of Oran? Generally most first words are "nice guy" or "very likeable". I guess the players (maybe apart from Bairdy today) see him the same way. No one says "leader" "tactician" or "proven experience". My point being this job is beyond him, it always was!

if our league is seen as a diddy league in Europe then the one Oran came from must be(with respect) mickey mouse! Jeez teams from that league cant overturn lower league sides in the irn bru cup, when they can stage a game! To be fair to OK he should have, if he wanted to pursue a full time career over here, started in the championship, part time to begin with, keep on with the teaching, and gain an understanding of the teams and players in this country.

if he showed talent in that environment, then like Ross and so many before him he would have got a gig in this league. He took seven years to win a diddy cup, not a diddy league! Just the diddy cup. That tells you he wasnt the right candidate for a job in the premiership, he was comfortable in a much lower standard, and much lower pressurised football environment. Not a fault, thats just the manager/coach he is.

something very specific i took from his fearful interview last night was how it appeared he viewed this game against Utd as a defining game for him! I really thought he was almost saying "this game is enormous, lose and I'll be hooked". Now obviously i dont know if that's exactly what he was intimating, but it sure as hell sounded that serious. In fact, such was his apparent fear i did have to check the fixture list to confirm it was Utd we were playing and not Barca!

everyone likes him, no one tells you what leadership qualities he exudes. In my opinion Nice guy in the wrong job.

so if we exit the cup on Saturday, and remain on course to be relegated, do you stick with the nice guy, even though you know he can't save you?

The board have absolutely f**ked up in the most pathetic, inept and embarrassing fashion. Look at the players Oran will face on Saturday, all brought in to Utd... cup winners, high placed premiership finishers etc... etc...

and look at how much, much more the board have spent on Stubbs, then his compo, Oran's compo, Oran's free agent signings, Oran's January signings, paying up contracts, paying to put players on loan etc etc.... now if only they had made the budget Neilson was after available to get him on board last summer, we would have the type of player Utd have brought in, we wouldnt be sitting bottom, and...... it would have cost a lot less than the fortune this board have spunked, trying to cover up one cock up, after another.

Indeed if they had been a bit more realistic and hired McIntyre, (who actually knows the league, the plaers etc) instead of Oran in September, we would be better off just now.

final question.... how many, if any of all the U23 loanees, foreigners and Tansey signings did anyone from this club actually see play before they joined?

I will go against the grain here

I agree

Sad state of affairs

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1 hour ago, St.Ricky said:

Is this still an argument over Alan Stubbs? 

 

No, thereby rendering the rest of your post irrelevant.

Albeit, having read the rest of your post, as you don't actually argue about Stubbs, the rest of your post is irrelevant to your own question anyway!

Edited by Wendy Saintss
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39 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

No, thereby rendering the rest of your post irrelevant.

Albeit, having read the rest of your post, as you don't actually argue about Stubbs, the rest of your post is irrelevant to your own question anyway!

Why thank you for that Wendy.

Much clearer on the way ahead now.

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I have to have a laugh at all the wibble wobbling ( This is a highly technical term)  on this thread.

Who among us knows what the internal strategy in our club is?

Who among us has ever actually done strategic planning at Director/Board level?

Anyway - we can all spout our opinions and make our ideas heard . . .  :spud7

But I wonder how many of us would do a better job that what we have at the moment - my gut feel is not very many . . .  :ninja

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5 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said:

I have to have a laugh at all the wibble wobbling ( This is a highly technical term)  on this thread.

Who among us knows what the internal strategy in our club is?

Who among us has ever actually done strategic planning at Director/Board level?

Anyway - we can all spout our opinions and make our ideas heard . . .  :spud7

But I wonder how many of us would do a better job that what we have at the moment - my gut feel is not very many . . .  :ninja

Very few (but some will) have experience of strategic planning at board level. Very few (including me)are privy to the board's strategy.

Lots have opinions! 

Would I do better? I don't think so.

Leave it to the guys with skin in the game. It's their money,it's their choice.

Edited by St.Ricky
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1 minute ago, St.Ricky said:

Very few (but some will) have experience of strategic planning at board level. Very few (including me)are privy to the board's strategy.

Lots have opinions! 

Would I do better? I don't think so.

Leave it to the guys with skin in the game. It's their money,it's their choice.

You are honest Ricky, but you might think that some on here were world beaters and could solve everything if they were in charge. Without knowing all the facts internally we are not able to make any sound judgements other than we don't like some of the outcomes/results on the field etc... there are always constraints and things that go for or against you etc.

I think GS is a sound businessman and I suspect Gus has had a big hand in bringing in Guys like Hladky, Popescu and the fullbacks. Oran is no amateur either - I think it takes hard work and time to build any group of players into a sound team at this level. I have no doubt that He and Nicholl will be working at building the team mentally and physically, and by coaching them to fix the things that are wrong at this time.

The next 3 games are about building the team - on the park and reinforcements from the bench - then the big one is the Livi game - beating Utd would be great, anything from the other 2 league games would be a bonus - but we could sure use a win against Livi…    :spud5 

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19 hours ago, Soctty said:

Hladky and Popescu look already up to speed. I expect the likes of Lyons, Dreyer and Tansey to be not far behind, with the Duck and the new full backs getting there also. 

Theres still alot of stuff to get sorted out as i say everyone needs to get match sharp and fit enough and gel together.the other night we ran out of legs in the last 20 minutes.tansey had ferdinand behind him and everyone else iinfront of him and he still couldnt pass the ball. that's what i mean we will need a good 7 games to click plus gut busting training.

Edited by Paisley brazilians
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1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

Throw in the rumour out today that Oran is only on a year long 'career break' from teaching and you can see the hotch-potched Auld Boy network of ex mangers at the club sticking their oar in, is being displayed on the park.

do the players even know who is picking the team and making the calls?

You mean you are gossiping something negative about St. Mirren and by adding your own spin on it  - - -  m m m m   :hammer

What's new ?    :headbang

Do you know - no not really . . . :spud1

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