W7/North Bank Treatment

[mattman]

1 minute ago, FTOF said:

Really?

I don't have a twitter account, but I've been reading all about the incident since Sunday as news of it spread from twitter on to other social media platforms.

Any sports journalist worth their salt will be trawling club's supporters websites or twitter feeds for "juicy" stories.

Thanks to the actions of a couple of individuals on Saturday, we presented them a "juicy" story on a plate.

 

 

I’ve read a lot about heavy handed policing over the weekend but not much about that incident, one or two things but nothing at the scale it’s at now.  But yeah you’re right if whoever it was never done it in the first place, this shitstorm wouldn’t be happening. I just feel like the club have approached it the total wrong way.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Just been on BBC Scottish news,

If we did not have a bad name we do now.

Club fans through the gutter very sad.

[Doakes]

4 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

You miss the point Doakes. 

Whether 

A. People spat on other fans 

Or

B. People spat on a fan on a stretcher 

Neither is acceptable.

I know you agree.

What is also inexcusable is that it appears that fans appear to have seen this but have not come forward.

Having "friends" like these or "fans" like these is of no benefit whatsoever.

Come forward and get them handed in and show some moral courage. 

I’ve said it countless times I think spitting on someone is disgusting. Wouldn’t wish it on anyone. But isn’t it fair to also point out that our CHAIRMAN cannot just go releasing statements saying that “numerous people” spat on an unconscious/injured man on a stretcher? Especially when that information is false.

What was he hoping to achieve? Other than turn the fan base against each other and destroy the good rep of our support. My view is that we should all be united on this - as you say - get rid of the spitting scumbag(s) - and continue to back our club. Why not get josh and the main boys in to discuss it in private? The club have made this into an absolute clusterf**k

[Sonny]

Just now, mattman said:

Was hardly anything about it until the club statement mate. Soon as the club put that statement out every news company in the country had it, “st mirren fans spit on unconcious Dundee United fan” if they had read social media and not the statement they wouldn’t have came out with such a ridiculous headline. 

Another point, Some people need to also realise it’s not like 20 people in that section it’s pretty busy, we pay to watch a game not every other supporter, the security and police are paid to watch the fans. There’s no hiding people, I wish I knew, I wouldn’t stick them in but I tell you this, they wouldn’t be hanging about in my crowd or sitting near me at games. People need to get it out their heads that w7 is some sort of mob cos it’s not !!! If someone had flung something from say w4, would the same blame everyone approach be used ? Exactly.

Not everyone has suggested Mattman that all the fans in W7 are a mob. However bad behaviour is not being reported in the ground except from W7. I sit in W3 and most of the seats are STs so it is very busy every game. And while I unfortunately spend most of my time watching the match I am pretty sure that if the guys next to me or in front of me threw coins or starting spitting on anyone I would see it. Josh has openly admitted that spitting took place. Why is no-one reporting who done it as someone must have seen it?

This started off with total denials anything took place then slowly it is admitted that incidents did take place but no-one saw anything. Something happened involving the fans in W7 so that is why W7 is under the microscope. The folk in there do very little to help themselves by pointing out the culprits.

[Sonny]

Just now, Doakes said:

I’ve said it countless times I think spitting on someone is disgusting. Wouldn’t wish it on anyone. But isn’t it fair to also point out that our CHAIRMAN cannot just go releasing statements saying that “numerous people” spat on an unconscious/injured man on a stretcher? Especially when that information is false.

What was he hoping to achieve? Other than turn the fan base against each other and destroy the good rep of our support. My view is that we should all be united on this - as you say - get rid of the spitting scumbag(s) - and continue to back our club. Why not get josh and the main boys in to discuss it in private? The club have made this into an absolute clusterf**k

Josh has confirmed that spitting did take place though. He says it was not to the man on the stretcher but to his family following him down the Vomitory. Not that that makes it OK.

[branniganm]

4 hours ago, melmac said:

Clear W7!

Free the W7 !

[melmac]

23 minutes ago, mattman said:

Was hardly anything about it until the club statement mate. Soon as the club put that statement out every news company in the country had it, “st mirren fans spit on unconcious Dundee United fan” if they had read social media and not the statement they wouldn’t have came out with such a ridiculous headline. 

Another point, Some people need to also realise it’s not like 20 people in that section it’s pretty busy, we pay to watch a game not every other supporter, the security and police are paid to watch the fans. There’s no hiding people, I wish I knew, I wouldn’t stick them in but I tell you this, they wouldn’t be hanging about in my crowd or sitting near me at games. People need to get it out their heads that w7 is some sort of mob cos it’s not !!! If someone had flung something from say w4, would the same blame everyone approach be used ? Exactly.

Am I reading this out of context "I wouldn’t stick them in but I tell you this, they wouldn’t be hanging about in my crowd or sitting near me at games"?

[proudtobeabuddy]

After reading some of this thread i come to the conclusion that it probably did happen in some form but the club don't know who did it and they are very unlikely to find out. If the stewards had seen it...problem solved, If our CCTV was good enough it would have identified the culprits ...problem solved. Neither happened so what now? What has/will the statement from the club achieve? Finding the culprits? Doubt it! So what do the club do now then? I just think this could have been handled a whole lot better and with out this huge media fuss. The police, stewards and  CCTV were all found wanting and now we're left with this mess. In the real world no-one will grass up their fellow supporters/friends (and before anyone goes into a frenzy, i'm not condoning that, just being a realist.)

[St.Ricky]

9 minutes ago, Doakes said:

I’ve said it countless times I think spitting on someone is disgusting. Wouldn’t wish it on anyone. But isn’t it fair to also point out that our CHAIRMAN cannot just go releasing statements saying that “numerous people” spat on an unconscious/injured man on a stretcher? Especially when that information is false.

What was he hoping to achieve? Other than turn the fan base against each other and destroy the good rep of our support. My view is that we should all be united on this - as you say - get rid of the spitting scumbag(s) - and continue to back our club. Why not get josh and the main boys in to discuss it in private? The club have made this into an absolute clusterf**k

Forget the Club. Forget Josh. 

Get these guys involved out now.

Deal with the rest later.

 

[mattman]

Just now, melmac said:

Am I reading this out of context "I wouldn’t stick them in but I tell you this, they wouldn’t be hanging about in my crowd or sitting near me at games"?

Yes, as I am not a grass. Some people take pleasure out of snitching people, that’s just the way I see things. I’ve never had any help off authority in my life (I won’t get in to it) so I wouldn’t help them. 

id rather it was sorted without the relevant authorities sticking their nose in.

Thats just my personal view. 

If I knew who it was I’d say I know who it was but unfortunately I don’t, I’m hearing one spit, the club are saying numerous, with coins flung too, who’s telling the truth? I was hit on the head at ibrox a few weeks ago and nothing got done about it, police seen it too, I never make a big hullabaloo either as nothing will get sorted. They wanted me to leave my seat during the game and give them a statement, for what ? Nothing ever gets done.

[ALBIONSAINT]

Opinions seem pretty polarised on this topic , I don’t know all the facts but I do have a couple of observations/queries however.

1. It’s now Tuesday and the alleged incident happened on Saturday afternoon. This is the first time I have heard about it, no posts on here post match from our fans, no posts on P&B from united fans? If this had happened to a saints fan in Dundee then social media would have been alight with it, strange.

2. The casualty was taken to the most convenient vomitory (w7) I was sitting in w5 and saw the first aid guys dealing with the incident, why take him across from the north stand? He was literally 20 feet away from an exit? 

3. I honestly can’t believe that stewards/police would not be able to pinpoint someone either spitting or throwing coins at someone on a stretcher being escorted by stewards. I have witnessed stewards eject men for racist language (Hibs game) and have witnessed stewards ask a CHILD to hand over his plastic bottle of lemonade (cameras were working that day) my ST is for W2 you can’t stand up or a steward is over at you, just strange how they can’t identify the alleged culprits for this incident? 

 

 

[Mr Optimistic]

29 minutes ago, mattman said:

Was hardly anything about it until the club statement mate. Soon as the club put that statement out every news company in the country had it, “st mirren fans spit on unconcious Dundee United fan” if they had read social media and not the statement they wouldn’t have came out with such a ridiculous headline. 

Another point, Some people need to also realise it’s not like 20 people in that section it’s pretty busy, we pay to watch a game not every other supporter, the security and police are paid to watch the fans. There’s no hiding people, I wish I knew, I wouldn’t stick them in but I tell you this, they wouldn’t be hanging about in my crowd or sitting near me at games. People need to get it out their heads that w7 is some sort of mob cos it’s not !!! If someone had flung something from say w4, would the same blame everyone approach be used ? Exactly.

 You've got to be joking!! 

[mattman]

1 minute ago, Mr Optimistic said:

 You've got to be joking!! 

I guess I’m not the only one then eh? 

 

Its now tuesday mate, the papers would have picked up on it Saturday night if it was everywhere. Within minutes of the club putting that statement out it was everywhere. 

 

[Callum Gilhooley]

1 minute ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Opinions seem pretty polarised on this topic , I don’t know all the facts but I do have a couple of observations/queries however.

1. It’s now Tuesday and the alleged incident happened on Saturday afternoon. This is the first time I have heard about it, no posts on here post match from our fans, no posts on P&B from united fans? If this had happened to a saints fan in Dundee then social media would have been alight with it, strange.

2. The casualty was taken to the most convenient vomitory (w7) I was sitting in w5 and saw the first aid guys dealing with the incident, why take him across from the north stand? He was literally 20 feet away from an exit? 

3. I honestly can’t believe that stewards/police would not be able to pinpoint someone either spitting or throwing coins at someone on a stretcher being escorted by stewards. I have witnessed stewards eject men for racist language (Hibs game) and have witnessed stewards ask a CHILD to hand over his plastic bottle of lemonade (cameras were working that day) my ST is for W2 you can’t stand up or a steward is over at you, just strange how they can’t identify the alleged culprits for this incident? 

 

 

Point 2 . 

Who made that decision and why ?  If fans are found to have spat on the Utd fan, ban them .

If the people who made the decision to allow an injured fan and his friends to walk / be carried past a perfectly adequate exit and out through the home fans can’t give a satisfactory answer as to why this was done the club has to act . 

[Mr Optimistic]

1 minute ago, mattman said:

I guess I’m not the only one then eh? 

 

Its now tuesday mate, the papers would have picked up on it Saturday night if it was everywhere. Within minutes of the club putting that statement out it was everywhere. 

 

Aye were the two of you on some desert island together.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Cost might be an issue and I'm only suggesting this anyway.
Most of the speed cameras out there are designed to flash but have no recording facility. Lots of them don't even have the ability to flash and are pure deterrents. It can't be done any other way. Our entire civilisation hangs on public consent to abide by laws, the vast majority of which cannot be enforced because of cost reasons. If enough people decide to flout a law, the law dies overnight. Don't tell anyone I told you that though.

Totally different scenarios bud as the speed cameras actually used film and had to be loaded and emptied.
The football police use hand held digital recorders. It's generally kept and used as evidence to get the warrant for the 6am visit to the house which is what they tend to do when there's too many fans to wade into during the game e.g. Old firm.
The fact that this hasn't happened and they've gone public looking for witnesses is surprising.

[branniganm]

Oh dear. Made the national news ... It sounds as if the incident may have indeed taken place. The club already know who the perpetrators are from the CCTV. They are fishing for corroborating evidence and looking for others to shop the 'guilty' in.  This is to support a lifetime ban from the SDA. 

If not, then SMFC have taken an almighty gamble and made a total arse of themselves. The consequences with respect to the credibility of the club are enormous.  

[ALBIONSAINT]

9 minutes ago, Mr Optimistic said:

Aye were the two of you on some desert island together.

How did you know!

[oaksoft]

15 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

Totally different scenarios bud as the speed cameras actually used film and had to be loaded and emptied.
The football police use hand held digital recorders. It's generally kept and used as evidence to get the warrant for the 6am visit to the house which is what they tend to do when there's too many fans to wade into during the game e.g. Old firm.
The fact that this hasn't happened and they've gone public looking for witnesses is surprising.

Yes I would agree with that. Clearly they didn't capture the incident.

[mattman]

16 minutes ago, Mr Optimistic said:

Aye were the two of you on some desert island together.

Unfortunately I was sober all weekend but I hope to be in that sort of condition this Saturday 

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, norman said:

 if the boys in W7 want to keep what they had, it's in their interest to help weed this out, because if they don't, they will lose it.

Yes I think this is the key point.

I just cannot get my head around why anyone would prefer engaging in collusion instead of getting this dealt with right now. This could be sorted out tonight if there was a will and then we can all get back to worrying about the football.

I have no idea whether existing members of that group have gone rogue or whether it's new members getting involved in it or whatever. Someone just needs to decide to report it and it all stops.

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, mattman said:

Was hardly anything about it until the club statement mate. Soon as the club put that statement out every news company in the country had it, “st mirren fans spit on unconcious Dundee United fan” if they had read social media and not the statement they wouldn’t have came out with such a ridiculous headline. 

Another point, Some people need to also realise it’s not like 20 people in that section it’s pretty busy, we pay to watch a game not every other supporter, the security and police are paid to watch the fans. There’s no hiding people, I wish I knew, I wouldn’t stick them in but I tell you this, they wouldn’t be hanging about in my crowd or sitting near me at games. People need to get it out their heads that w7 is some sort of mob cos it’s not !!! If someone had flung something from say w4, would the same blame everyone approach be used ? Exactly.

It is utterly ridiculous to suggest that fans can throw coins and spit on people and not a single person behind them saw a thing. Nobody is going to believe this and the sooner these people understand that the better. This is only going to end one way. As slomeone else said, W7 has a unique privilege amongst the fanbase - they get access to the ears of the board of directors and are generally well regarded by other fans. If they want this to continue they have to fix this.

[oaksoft]

40 minutes ago, mattman said:

Yes, as I am not a grass. Some people take pleasure out of snitching people, that’s just the way I see things. I’ve never had any help off authority in my life (I won’t get in to it) so I wouldn’t help them. 

 

This is called collusion.

I'd be genuinely interested in understanding the mindset which drives this attitude.

Edited February 12, 2019 by oaksoft

[mattman]

6 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

It is utterly ridiculous to suggest that fans can throw coins and spit on people and not a single person behind them saw a thing. Nobody is going to believe this and the sooner these people understand that the better. This is only going to end one way. As slomeone else said, W7 has a unique privilege amongst the fanbase - they get access to the ears of the board of directors and are generally well regarded by other fans. If they want this to continue they have to fix this.

I do agree someone must of seen it, but I know from the core group that’s been going since it started that not one of them know, the core group (who set up the displays, drum, songs etc) are not as big as folk think, maybe about 10/12, not all of them go to every single game either. No idea how many people are in that section during game time but it’s well more than the 10 or 12. The rest aren’t as close, maybe names and that but not enough to protect them not once but twice for rotten behaviour, every group always attracts roasters but at the start everyone loved it, now it’s grown wings and attracted the odd nugget, everyone gets tarred with same brush.

Edited February 12, 2019 by mattman

[billyg]

2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

This is called collusion.

It's called , turning a blind eye , which the Polis are good at too , when it suits them.