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20 minutes ago, LargsBud said:

Gordon Scott has made an absolute laughing stock of the club today with that statement.

I'd love to know what the f**k he expects it to achieve.

We are getting lambasted from all angles on social media due to his personal vendetta against one section of our support.

If an incident happened and the law was broken let the police deal with it like every normal person. Wading in due to his own personal grievances has just embarrassed our club on a nationwide scale 

Given that the Police are claiming that there have been a number of incidents that paint the club in a bad light, I suspect GS was trying to show the Police and authorities that he was willing to condemn these kind of things and point out the damage it does to the clubs reputation.

I am not saying he worded this well … but generally he does handle things well. The real issue is if we have "fans" who are acting like thugs. Get them tae fcuk. It spoils it for everyone who goes home and away to our matches. . . :spud6

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14 minutes ago, Sonny said:

Out of interest Doakes what makes you believe someone was spat on and coins were thrown? Did you see anything or did a witness confirm this? I am not having a go and I am not blaming anyone in particular.

If you've got twitter click on the clubs official feed and look at the replies under the statement. Several people who were in W7 saying that it wasn't the guy in the stretcher that was on the receiving end. But there are a few responses saying that 1 or 2 united fans charged into W7 looking for trouble (unchecked by security) , that seems to be the flash point. I don't buy that people would randomly start attacking a guy in a stretcher, which is what GS has put out to the worlds media. If coins and spit was indeed aimed at people running into W7, it's shocking behaviour - but not as shocking as aiming it at an unconscious / injured man on a stretcher!

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5 minutes ago, Doakes said:

If you've got twitter click on the clubs official feed and look at the replies under the statement. Several people who were in W7 saying that it wasn't the guy in the stretcher that was on the receiving end. But there are a few responses saying that 1 or 2 united fans charged into W7 looking for trouble (unchecked by security) , that seems to be the flash point. I don't buy that people would randomly start attacking a guy in a stretcher, which is what GS has put out to the worlds media. If coins and spit was indeed aimed at people running into W7, it's shocking behaviour - but not as shocking as aiming it at an unconscious / injured man on a stretcher!

Lol. The least worst option argument. Not a sound defence. 

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Maybe they are not actually recording due to costs but are using it as a deterrent.

Most normal people are quite happy to behave but we are looking at a small herd of animals who know exactly what their rights are, know CCTV is shit and know the police are not really filming at all. They also know that nobody around them will "grass them up". For tough stains on society like that, you need to throw everything in your power at them. They can be easily defeated if you do that but it needs someone with the balls to stand up to them and face them down.

That’s just big one big assumption, something you seem to dig me on a lot. So you can assume what’s happening with zero knowledge or fact, when I do I’m deterring from the real issue :lol: you’re getting as bad as ricky these days :lol:

Something I always find funny is you are on Gordon’s side so much, make it out as the guys in w7 are dregs of society when your precious chairman is seen in the same nightclubs as these boys on a Saturday night :lol: put the straw away for once and get to the real issue of the police being heavy handed especially to young teenagers who are totally innocent. For it being 2019 the police seem to be pretty much clueless and going for the tactic of take everyone’s names and ban them all. Guilty for supporting their team. Sad! 

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10 minutes ago, Doakes said:

If you've got twitter click on the clubs official feed and look at the replies under the statement. Several people who were in W7 saying that it wasn't the guy in the stretcher that was on the receiving end. But there are a few responses saying that 1 or 2 united fans charged into W7 looking for trouble (unchecked by security) , that seems to be the flash point. I don't buy that people would randomly start attacking a guy in a stretcher, which is what GS has put out to the worlds media. If coins and spit was indeed aimed at people running into W7, it's shocking behaviour - but not as shocking as aiming it at an unconscious / injured man on a stretcher!

Thanks for the answer. So it looks like there were in fact incidents however details as to who was responsible vary.

Unfortunately I have witnessed enough scumbags at football matches to not be surprised by some actions. Obviously crowd control was poor as was some of the crowd spitting and throwing coins at anyone.

 

Edit to add: Someone on Twitter saying the couple of people that also came across to W7 were the family of the guy on the stretcher.

Edited by Sonny
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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

I didn't actually answer your questions. :lol:

I'll try again.

On point one, all people have to do is note who is causing the trouble and anonymously report them to the club. The problem is you have people with billyg's attitude who wouldn't report anything to the club or the police if his "life depended on it". I am not advocating getting involved with these animals on the day.

On point two, by far the most important thing is the conduct of these fans and the bewidering levels of coverup by fans around them. Criticising the club's PR is simply trying to deflect from that. There's a time and place for having a go at the club over what is happening. This isn't it IMO.

I think when in your previous response you changed cowardice to collusion, you eradicated my first point anyway.. 

As for the second point, whilst I wouldn’t argue with anything you have said, I still don’t think it precludes us from saying that this was still a massive faux pas by the club, regardless of the underlying issue. Let’s just say it won’t have helped matters. If anything it will have made things worse. 

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This whole situation is an absolute nightmare for the club. When the reputation of St Mirren gets dragged through the gutter, like today, the embarrassment and disappointment almost feels worse than the biggest disasters that have happened on the pitch over the years.
It may be a few numpties on the bevvy, but if this has actually happened as reported, which you have to presume did, it’s a bloody disgrace. Would the club actually shoot itself in the foot in such spectacular fashion if it didn’t happen?? Still looks like the board could’ve handled it better; the story is out in the national media now.
We can make no excuses and will just sound like the ugly sisters or the English media coming out with ‘a small minority’, it was the fault of the policing/stewarding etc. Unfortunately when you have an ‘element’ to your support the club gets tarnished.
This time, last season we had the image of a well-run family club on the up. W7 were rightly being toasted as Saint’s 12th man and picking up plaudits from all quarters, including away fans. When in full voice it’s brilliant.
After today, the image of the club has changed, whatever happened. Hope it gets sorted out quickly and conclusively(which I doubt), so we can get back to focussing on how we can improve on the park.
A sad day to be a buddie.

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2 minutes ago, Balmullo Bud said:

This whole situation is an absolute nightmare for the club. When the reputation of St Mirren gets dragged through the gutter, like today, the embarrassment and disappointment almost feels worse than the biggest disasters that have happened on the pitch over the years.
It may be a few numpties on the bevvy, but if this has actually happened as reported, which you have to presume did, it’s a bloody disgrace. Would the club actually shoot itself in the foot in such spectacular fashion if it didn’t happen?? Still looks like the board could’ve handled it better; the story is out in the national media now.
We can make no excuses and will just sound like the ugly sisters or the English media coming out with ‘a small minority’, it was the fault of the policing/stewarding etc. Unfortunately when you have an ‘element’ to your support the club gets tarnished.
This time, last season we had the image of a well-run family club on the up. W7 were rightly being toasted as Saint’s 12th man and picking up plaudits from all quarters, including away fans. When in full voice it’s brilliant.
After today, the image of the club has changed, whatever happened. Hope it gets sorted out quickly and conclusively(which I doubt), so we can get back to focussing on how we can improve on the park.
A sad day to be a buddie.

Spot on Balmullo.

Until now I have been Proud of supporting St Mirren. The reported behaviour, if true, is shameful. 

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1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:

To be fair, this is the first we've heard about the cctv being shit. After the morelos incident our chief executive was all over the national media telling everyone that we had state of the art cctv which would identify the culprit and they'd be banned.
As fir the police, why would they have digital hand held recorders, but only kid on they were using them?

So based on the police watching and filming, the stewards observing and the cctv footage, I'm confident that we should be able to identify or further down the line release images to allow others to identify anyone undertaking these reprehensible acts.

Cost might be an issue and I'm only suggesting this anyway.

Most of the speed cameras out there are designed to flash but have no recording facility. Lots of them don't even have the ability to flash and are pure deterrents. It can't be done any other way. Our entire civilisation hangs on public consent to abide by laws, the vast majority of which cannot be enforced because of cost reasons. If enough people decide to flout a law, the law dies overnight. Don't tell anyone I told you that though.

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Just now, St.Ricky said:

Lol. The least worst option argument. Not a sound defence. 

I don't give a shit about defending anyone Ricky. If anyone did that they deserve all they get. Spitting on someone is the most disgusting vile thing you can do

The information that our club has put out specifically made out that a guy on a stretcher was targeted, which isn't true and excessively damages our clubs reputation. The wording of the statement was abysmal

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50 minutes ago, LargsBud said:

Gordon Scott has made an absolute laughing stock of the club today with that statement.

I'd love to know what the f**k he expects it to achieve.

We are getting lambasted from all angles on social media due to his personal vendetta against one section of our support.

If an incident happened and the law was broken let the police deal with it like every normal person. Wading in due to his own personal grievances has just embarrassed our club on a nationwide scale 

We are getting lambasted because a few nutters have behaved like farmyard animals.

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50 minutes ago, Doakes said:

 

 

By the way, Oaky. We've had our differences in the past - but I'd like to think we've somewhat resolved that

If you're going to refer to people in W7 using derogatory terms - please make it clear that you're not tarring us all with the same brush. Not everyone in there is an animal/scumbag/stain on society

 

I didn't say they were.

I have made it crystal clear who I am aiming those remarks at in general.

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5 minutes ago, Doakes said:

I don't give a shit about defending anyone Ricky. If anyone did that they deserve all they get. Spitting on someone is the most disgusting vile thing you can do

The information that our club has put out specifically made out that a guy on a stretcher was targeted, which isn't true and excessively damages our clubs reputation. The wording of the statement was abysmal

Now you simply don't know that bud.

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22 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

I think when in your previous response you changed cowardice to collusion, you eradicated my first point anyway.. 

As for the second point, whilst I wouldn’t argue with anything you have said, I still don’t think it precludes us from saying that this was still a massive faux pas by the club, regardless of the underlying issue. Let’s just say it won’t have helped matters. If anything it will have made things worse. 

Yeah, the more I thought about it, I know these types of people. I lived amongst them for years until I managed to get away.

Collusion is the right word and you saw billyg articulating the problem.You also saw Doakes talking about it as well. People have told him about our fans spitting and throwing stuff and yet not one of them appears to have chucked a name into the debate or reported anything to the club. It's collusion and it's sickening.

You are probably right about how the club have handled it but I'm not willing to get into that just now because people are trying to use it to water down the real problem and to deflect. I'm not in the mood to allow them to get away with that at the moment. There's a discussion to be had further down the line though and certainly before fan ownership happens. Right now I want to see the full focus on the perpetrators of the unacceptable behaviour reported.

Edited by oaksoft
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16 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

We are getting lambasted because a few nutters have behaved like farmyard animals.

There are a few nutters at every football club in the world. 

Most other chairmen keep their emotions aside rather than dragging the club publicity through the mud.

Edited by LargsBud
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2 minutes ago, LargsBud said:

There are a few nutters at every football club in the world. 

Most other chairmen keep their emotions aside rather than dragging the club publicity through the mud.

You seem more concerned about publicity rather than actually dealing with the root cause of the problem.

We need a single colluder to pass names to the club and this issue and the subsequent publicity dies overnight.

 

Edited by oaksoft
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The club clearly don't want this anymore than the W7 guys. They don't want the police at the ground at all, let alone have the police there filming a certain section of the crowd, it's an expense they don't need. This isn't part of some conspiracy, the police are there, in increasing numbers, off their own backs. It is the police who have serious concerns.

This has all gone very sour and you can't just blame the club for this. Things have changed within the people associated with that area of the ground. There has been fighting, there have been several unsavoury incidents. It's not like it was a couple of years ago. The boys I know who sit up there aren't hooligans, the boys I sat amongst (accidentally) at Falkirk and Dunfermline over the last couple if seasons weren't hooligans, they weren't big tough boys looking for trouble. Something has changed this season and if the boys in W7 want to keep what they had, it's in their interest to help weed this out, because if they don't, they will lose it.

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Just now, LargsBud said:

There are a few nutters at every football club in the world. 

Most other chairmen keep their emotions aside rather than dragging the club publicity through the mud.

Do you honestly think that this would have stayed out of the media if we hadn't released at statement, given the airing it received on social media?:blink:

I suspect that the club have been contacted by someone in the media who asked for more clarity on the situation before they reported it.

I'd rather we heard it from the club than from any other source in the media.

The people that have dragged the club through the mud are the people involved in the spitting and coin throwing incident (which now seems to have been confirmed).

It doesn't matter whether it was an unconscious guy on a stretcher or his two sons entering our section, spitting and throwing coins is not normal behaviour and is reprehensible.

 

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I’ve skipped about four pages here so apologies if this has been covered and answered.

An incident took place during which , a Dundee united fan was injured , of that we are sure . Right ? 

The powers at be ,for whatever reason , chose to take that fan and as far as I can gather , at least two accompanying friends along the front of the North stand and into an area occupied by a group of Saints fans who have been warned about their behaviour as a group previously , various individuals  served with bans, warnings and increased police and stewarding and out through that section.

Question is this, given that this sequence of events which unfolded ,it must have taken some time to carry out this procedure, surely the match commander , head steward, club official should have anticipated some issues, and employed more personnel to counter any such issues and to also “Zoom in “ our state of the art cctv to catch any offenders red handed or slabber mouthed as the case may be ? 

If not , I would be asking very serious questions of said officials and their ability to officiate, police / steward and a football match.

footnote. If any fan has been doing what has been alleged , we cannot defend them and they must be banned , but there are so many holes in the whole saga you could drive a double decker through them .

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3 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Do you honestly think that this would have stayed out of the media if we hadn't released at statement, given the airing it received on social media?:blink:

I suspect that the club have been contacted by someone in the media who asked for more clarity on the situation before they reported it.

I'd rather we heard it from the club than from any other source in the media.

The people that have dragged the club through the mud are the people involved in the spitting and coin throwing incident (which now seems to have been confirmed).

It doesn't matter whether it was an unconscious guy on a stretcher or his two sons entering our section, spitting and throwing coins is not normal behaviour and is reprehensible.

 

Was hardly anything about it until the club statement mate. Soon as the club put that statement out every news company in the country had it, “st mirren fans spit on unconcious Dundee United fan” if they had read social media and not the statement they wouldn’t have came out with such a ridiculous headline. 

Another point, Some people need to also realise it’s not like 20 people in that section it’s pretty busy, we pay to watch a game not every other supporter, the security and police are paid to watch the fans. There’s no hiding people, I wish I knew, I wouldn’t stick them in but I tell you this, they wouldn’t be hanging about in my crowd or sitting near me at games. People need to get it out their heads that w7 is some sort of mob cos it’s not !!! If someone had flung something from say w4, would the same blame everyone approach be used ? Exactly.

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32 minutes ago, Doakes said:

I don't give a shit about defending anyone Ricky. If anyone did that they deserve all they get. Spitting on someone is the most disgusting vile thing you can do

The information that our club has put out specifically made out that a guy on a stretcher was targeted, which isn't true and excessively damages our clubs reputation. The wording of the statement was abysmal

You miss the point Doakes. 

Whether 

A. People spat on other fans 

Or

B. People spat on a fan on a stretcher 

Neither is acceptable.

I know you agree.

What is also inexcusable is that it appears that fans appear to have seen this but have not come forward.

Having "friends" like these or "fans" like these is of no benefit whatsoever.

Come forward and get them handed in and show some moral courage. 

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Just now, mattman said:

Was hardly anything about it until the club statement mate. Soon as the club put that statement out every news company in the country had it, “st mirren fans spit on unconcious Dundee United fan” if they had read social media and not the statement they wouldn’t have came out with such a ridiculous headline. 

Another point, Some people need to also realise it’s not like 20 people in that section it’s pretty busy, we pay to watch a game not every other supporter, the security and police are paid to watch the fans. There’s no hiding people, I wish I knew, I wouldn’t stick them in but I tell you this, they wouldn’t be hanging about in my crowd or sitting near me at games. People need to get it out their heads that w7 is some sort of mob cos it’s not !!! If someone had flung something from say w4, would the same blame everyone approach be used ? Exactly.

Really?

I don't have a twitter account, but I've been reading all about the incident since Sunday as news of it spread from twitter on to other social media platforms.

Any sports journalist worth their salt will be trawling club's supporters websites or twitter feeds for "juicy" stories.

Thanks to the actions of a couple of individuals on Saturday, we presented them a "juicy" story on a plate.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

I’ve skipped about four pages here so apologies if this has been covered and answered.

An incident took place during which , a Dundee united fan was injured , of that we are sure . Right ? 

The powers at be ,for whatever reason , chose to take that fan and as far as I can gather , at least two accompanying friends along the front of the North stand and into an area occupied by a group of Saints fans who have been warned about their behaviour as a group previously , various individuals  served with bans, warnings and increased police and stewarding and out through that section.

Question is this, given that this sequence of events which unfolded ,it must have taken some time to carry out this procedure, surely the match commander , head steward, club official should have anticipated some issues, and employed more personnel to counter any such issues and to also “Zoom in “ our state of the art cctv to catch any offenders red handed or slabber mouthed as the case may be ? 

If not , I would be asking very serious questions of said officials and their ability to officiate, police / steward and a football match.

footnote. If any fan has been doing what has been alleged , we cannot defend them and they must be banned , but there are so many holes in the whole saga you could drive a double decker through them .

Exactly. Had we dealt with this like a top flight professional football club should given all the powers at there disposal, anyone spitting or coin throwing would have been apprehended there and then so the law could deal with them and no public statements pleading for help would have been required. We seem to be more tinpot and amateurish by the week. We badly need a professional, properly qualified chief exec /PR officer as the way we handle these things just brings ridicule. We were told after the Morelos incident we had a "state of the art" CCTV system that would identify the culprits unless they came forward or were pointed out. As far as we know no one has been identified and then months later an exact repeat. It's embarrassing. Yes these incidents shouldn't be happening but this is Scotland, unfortunately these things do happen, our society is blighted by anti social behaviour so we must be able to combat it. We have invested in systems that clearly are not fit for purpose be they technological or human. That is unacceptable as is the behaviour and statements like today's simply bring further embarrassment. Yes the club have to be seen to stamp down hard but it's more than a little tempered by our inability to deal with it or prevent it.

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