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Merged: All The Oran Kearney Threads

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1 hour ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

I just wish we'd got Oran in in summer instead of Stubbs. Changing a whole team mid season is far from ideal because Oran hasn't had the luxury of a pre season with all his new signings. Staying up is definitely manageable and next season we won't see as many squad changes as this one, which will hopefully lead to more stability in the team.

They are all on loan so it is going to be another full overhaul again in the summer. Regardless of which division we are in.

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11 hours ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

I know that we're bottom of the league and struggling for form but i think the new players will find form in time to get off the bottom of the league. Bear in mind that we had to overhaul a huge amount of players, you wouldn't even do that pre season in normal circumstances.  Think back to when Jack Ross was in a similar position in the championship, most had us relegated and in that season it took time for the new players to gel, but they did just in time.  I'm not buying into the argument that he's tactically inept we have a huge amount of experience in our coaching staff. I think that it's a mixture of too many player not match fit at the same time and as I've already pointed out, still trying to gel as a team. 

I know that there will be many who disagree but i think we're not far away from being a decent team. 

Good common sense here my friend. We have signed some very decent looking players - now time for them to learn to become a team...

Truth is none of us know if Oran and the squad will turn it around, but it is completely unfair to expect it instantly - Oran knows this, and so do the BOD

I do think Oran wants us to have a more menacing attack, and let's be honest we want to be scoring goals regularly. However, most Premiership teams have the ability to be compact, working as a unit all over the park to make themselves difficult to beat 1st - then they break quick and are usually much more clinical that a typical Championship side.

The squad do need to get up to a higher level of fitness physically AND mentally and with the injured players being available ORan will have greater choice and their will be beter competition for a 1st 11 jersey.

Any point or points from Aberdeen or Hearts would be welcome though unlikely - but we must build up the mentality to beat Livi and Dee next time we meet them.. again a surprise result or 2 against Killie and the Fakes would be a real bonus.

It is time for us to learn how to be a team and become difficult to beat enough at least to survive this season  :ninja

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We need to work out what sort of a club we are. Are we a club that gives promising young managers a chance, and is prepared to back them through the tough times, with a view to developing some continuity in terms of style of play, using our young players, building a proper bond with support, etc...

...or do we want to become an absolute basket case of a club that fires the manager every time they don't achieve instant success, leading to no credible candidates ever wanting to be seen anywhere near us?

Of course we will occasionally hire duds. That's the market we are in. I think we can all agree that the list of candidates in the summer was surprisingly underwhelming. 

The problem is, knowing when to bag the duds, and stick by the ones you think might come good. 

Since 2014, we've had Tommy Craig (less than half a season), Gary Teale (shade over half a season), Ian Murray (less than half), Alex Rae (almost a full season), Jack Ross (almost two ful seasons), Alan Stubbs (less than ten games) and Oran Kearney (half a season so far).

Of those, Craig was a disaster, a lazy appointment, and failed to build a squad. Murray was a disaster and failed to build a squad. Rae saved us one season, but then failed to build a squad and is a c**t. Teale was stitched up by not being made permanent manager for weeks and weeks, and by the sale of McLean, so he gets a bye, but has hardly been inundated with offers to be a manager since.

Stubbs failed to build a squad too, and seemed to put noses out of joint. Should he have been given longer? I'm in the 'no' camp, even though it seems he was correct about the relative quality of the squad he inherited. 

The one thing that Kearney has that the others didn't is people saying he'll come good; fans of his last club saying he needs time. That we should get behind him. This is a ridiculously tough job - a squad filled with poor players, and some good players who have no confidence. I believe he's done his absolute best in the transfer window and that the players will start to come good. Don't forget he's backed up by Gus, who has 100% got an eye for a player.

 

tl;dr - at some point we need to stop bagging managers who don't give us an instant return. We know that progress is difficult. We arrived in this league with no manager, our best two players gone. This has to be the line in the sand. Give Kearney until next December, at least, even if we go down. If we're not in at least the top four of the Championship by then, then speak to Jim Goodwin.

I'm with Oran.

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4 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

How come lower league Dundee Utd managed to "gel" with a shed load of new signings? Where do they buy their "gel" we need to shop there.

We buy our gel at Aldi. The Arabs are shopping at Abercrombie & Fitch with their Cadillac American owners picking up the tab. Really good players dont need time to gell. OK will give us a decent comb over.

Edited by magnus

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3 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

How come lower league Dundee Utd managed to "gel" with a shed load of new signings? Where do they buy their "gel" we need to shop there.

Probably easier to gel when you're on the front foot and confidence in the squad is high. Plus, they have our (apparently) first-choice manager from last summer at the helm.

Mind when we got pumped by QoS in 2017, they had a load of new players in the squad, too, including John Rankin? They clearly bought the same gel that day.

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10 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

How come lower league Dundee Utd managed to "gel" with a shed load of new signings? Where do they buy their "gel" we need to shop there.

Ok they beat us on Saturday but what have they won? Are they assured of promotion? Nope. They are high on confidence, which is an easier environment for new players to come into, much like us last season.  We're playing in a much harder league where every game is tough for us but I've seen enough quality to suggest that with hard work we can turn this around in time. I know some fans demand instant success and in an ideal world, wouldn't we all? Realistically, we were always going to take time to integrate so many new players into the team and let's hope we see some more green shoots of progress on Saturday. 

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21 minutes ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

Ok they beat us on Saturday but what have they won? Are they assured of promotion? Nope. They are high on confidence, which is an easier environment for new players to come into, much like us last season.  We're playing in a much harder league where every game is tough for us but I've seen enough quality to suggest that with hard work we can turn this around in time. I know some fans demand instant success and in an ideal world, wouldn't we all? Realistically, we were always going to take time to integrate so many new players into the team and let's hope we see some more green shoots of progress on Saturday. 

Oran has had twenty odd games now, i dont think expecting us to field a settled team, formation and tactics is asking for instant success? We had the endless pitch up till now that its "not Orans's team", and so far with (lets go with that anology) 'Oran's Team' not much has changed, but now he and them apparently need time "to gel"?

thats odd because I distinctly remember Oran telling us what great quality the Duck, Popesc, Dreyer, McAllister and even Corbu were, and how they would have us getting results asap. Whats happened to Corbu btw? Too duff to play?

 

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10 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Oran has had twenty odd games now, i dont think expecting us to field a settled team, formation and tactics is asking for instant success? We had the endless pitch up till now that its "not Orans's team", and so far with (lets go with that anology) 'Oran's Team' not much has changed, but now he and them apparently need time "to gel"?

thats odd because I distinctly remember Oran telling us what great quality the Duck, Popesc, Dreyer, McAllister and even Corbu were, and how they would have us getting results asap. Whats happened to Corbu btw? Too duff to play?

 

I would assume Paul McGinn is keeping him out the team? Maybe he's not match fit? I'm sure we'll see him start games soon enough. Oran was right to say these players are a decent quality because they are.... and as i said i think they'll come good in time to stay up. I'd also reiterate that i'd prefer them to gel quicker than they have like all other supporters but obviously it's taking a wee bit longer than we want.

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1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

How come lower league Dundee Utd managed to "gel" with a shed load of new signings? Where do they buy their "gel" we need to shop there.

Have they gelled?  You judge this over what 2 games where they beat Morton and us 2 v 1, but what about the game before when Ayr beat them.

Let's see how they and the others we are interested in do over March time - wee blips of positive results or negative ones are hardly sufficient evidence to make a water tight case on. AND the real proof is when the prizes or relegation/promotions are being handed out . . . but you know this right?  :hammer

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45 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Oran has had twenty odd games now, i dont think expecting us to field a settled team, formation and tactics is asking for instant success? We had the endless pitch up till now that its "not Orans's team", and so far with (lets go with that anology) 'Oran's Team' not much has changed, but now he and them apparently need time "to gel"?

thats odd because I distinctly remember Oran telling us what great quality the Duck, Popesc, Dreyer, McAllister and even Corbu were, and how they would have us getting results asap. Whats happened to Corbu btw? Too duff to play?

 

Same old same old from you repeating the same rubbish which people give you answers too, which you either don't read or don't listen because it doesn't fit YOUR agenda, or like getting attention from those who try our best to help you cast off the thunder and lightening rain cloud above your head. :spud3

Oran's 20 games were with Stubzo's sh*te (Who you have defended to the hilt) plus the 4 gems Oran picked up. He has also had a lot of injured players and we were down to the bare bones in many recent games.

Should he have kept anyone who he got rid off? (He did not get rid of Hammill, he refused to re-sign)

Oran's team will be much changed as players return from injury and others just in the door get up to full fitness. So you ask what's happening to Corbu - you cannot be this thick - you know that he has not played much for 2 months right? So do you expect him to get thrown straight in before he is ready? (AND then what would you say about Oran?) Sat. was the Ducks 1st full outing and he was twice as effective as he was during his 1st appearance as a sub. Expect similar from others in coming weeks too.

If you actually ever played at a decent level, or had any common sense, you would fully appreciate what is going on and the massive task Oran has :-

The 1st part of that was get a few guys in with the window closed and keep with the pack - Oran got a gold star for this.

2nd, clear out and bring in better players. Another gold star.

Now we need some time to execute the 3rd part - so watch and learn and stop posting your constant repetitive NONSENSE . . .   :fire

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2 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

How come lower league Dundee Utd managed to "gel" with a shed load of new signings? Where do they buy their "gel" we need to shop there.

Never mind gel, it's lube we need for what Aberdeen are going to do to us on Saturday :(:lol:

In all seriousness I am with Oran, I do believe he's got something. Just need a win to kickstart the resurgence. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Doakes said:

Never mind gel, it's lube we need for what Aberdeen are going to do to us on Saturday :(:lol:

In all seriousness I am with Oran, I do believe he's got something. Just need a win to kickstart the resurgence. 

 

Aye, i thiink big Cosgrove is gonna ride Bairdy like a horse for a hat trick! Hopefully he is a gentleman, and doesnt forget to call Jack afterwards?

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On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 8:47 AM, antrin said:

The guy has not “admitted he’s on a career break”, at all.

evidence, please, lpm.  :)

Good challenge but don't expect any REAL proof to be provided from the guy who makes up almost every claim he makes . .. :bounce2

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Anyone that suggests it would be OK to stick with OK if we get relegated should reflect on the fact we were down for three seasons last time, and very nearly dropped down again. Why some fans think that would be OK is baffling? 

Personally i think OK might walk at the end of this month if we record three defeats in our games till then. He'd likely be on a record breaking losing streak in the league, and move over to let Goody come in to give it a good burn up, to stay up!

in any case Goody would have the summer to rebuild for whatever league we are in next season.

for the sake of the man, i hope he can crack it and get a result. For the sake of the support, club, community and the man, hopefully he would see it as best for all concerned to take it on the chin, and let us, and a clear head try to rescue our season?

i really wouldnt want to see, and hear the type of reaction he would get if we win nothing this month, then going into our do or die games against Dundee and Hamilton.

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2 tired phrases I keep seeing:

”I believe he has something”

”We can’t keep bagging managers”

What is it exactly that he’s got? Aside from the tag of being St Mirren’s worst ever manager statistically? Aside from struggling to get a team to play for more than 45 minutes per game? Aside from an awful GA record? Aside from some glaring tactical howlers on a weekly basis (such as setting up to play 3 at the back against an in-form Motherwell side who play with width)? Aside from an eye-bleeding style of football? Aside from the mind numbingly repetitive interviews? Aside from the excuses list as long as your arm?

And why is it exactly “we can’t keep bagging managers”? What does that mean exactly? Do we just stick with managers for a set duration of time no matter how bad a job they’re doing? How far do we let that go? Until we’re back at the foot of the Championship? League 1? League 2?

So someone enlighten me, what has OK shown you?

I think OK seems like a good guy who wants to do well and i’d love for him to be a success but the facts are above and unfortunately they’re pretty damning. We’re going down with a whimper and we can’t afford to give him a 6 month tactical internship in the Championship.

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I think the big question is; Are we better or worse?

For all the outgoings and incoming, so far I would say 'in-different'.

I hope this changes and we can get off the bottom of the table and giver ourselves a chance. Sadly, I don't hold out too much hope..

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17 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Anyone that suggests it would be OK to stick with OK if we get relegated should reflect on the fact we were down for three seasons last time, and very nearly dropped down again. Why some fans think that would be OK is baffling? 

Personally i think OK might walk at the end of this month if we record three defeats in our games till then. He'd likely be on a record breaking losing streak in the league, and move over to let Goody come in to give it a good burn up, to stay up!

in any case Goody would have the summer to rebuild for whatever league we are in next season.

for the sake of the man, i hope he can crack it and get a result. For the sake of the support, club, community and the man, hopefully he would see it as best for all concerned to take it on the chin, and let us, and a clear head try to rescue our season?

i really wouldnt want to see, and hear the type of reaction he would get if we win nothing this month, then going into our do or die games against Dundee and Hamilton.

Goodwin would be the worst managerial appointment in Saints history...

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On 2/10/2019 at 11:32 AM, Ayrshire Saints said:

So in your eyes who constitutes a jobber ad who wouldn't ? It's the same guys making each appointment . If for example they appointed McPherson like some are clamouring for, (bearing in mind they have made the mistake of appointing background staff twice before) is he a jobber as to me he is the epitome of one. Madness is making the same mistakes repeatedly, yet that's the groundswell on here.

As for we can't keep sacking managers as being drivel, we simply cannot afford to keep sacking guys on lengthy contracts. It will ruin us totally which is hardly drivel.

Gus as manager would be a fatal mistake from the board. 

He is far from a jobber though, he turned us into an established SPL team from a poor mid table Championship team and for that he is a St Mirren legend. It was however time for him to leave when he did. He should never have been brought back to the club IMO, the whole reason he left was to “take the club to the next level” but that’s an argument for another day.

I just said on another thread - how far do we let toiling managers continue? I get that we can’t keep sacking managers after 6 games or anything ridiculous. OK has had months now.

 Imagine if we gave Tommy Craig 6 months in the championship or Ian Murray a full season or Alex Rae all of 2016/17?

I am certain there will be a get-out clause in OK’s contract.

Regardless, much the same as we can’t afford to bag managers all the time, I do not believe we can afford to give OK a 6 month tactical internship in the Championship. 

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4 minutes ago, gstretchuk said:

Goodwin would be the worst managerial appointment in Saints history...

I dont think there are enough games left this season for him to be worse than Oran! Then he's got Tommy Craig & Ian Murray who make anyone look good.

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16 minutes ago, gstretchuk said:

Goodwin would be the worst managerial appointment in Saints history...

 

13 minutes ago, W6Saint said:

Gus as manager would be a fatal mistake from the board. 

 

Right its f**king settled then. Kearney it is. Close the f**king thread.

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