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faraway saint

Unacceptable Behaviour

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It seems there's been a recent rise in various forms of unacceptable behaviour of football fans.

Todays incident at the Villa game the latest and possibly the worst.

It'll be interesting to see what the authorities in England do as there seems to be little action taken north of the border.

 

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9 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Looks to me as if the current trend could result in some drastic action......................

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/violence-among-supporters-is-becoming-more-prevalent-1.3821560

Eventually further action will be taken to the detriment of the fans. No player should have to fear randomly being assaulted on the pitch by a spectator.

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Just now, Cornwall_Saint said:

Eventually further action will be taken to the detriment of the majority of fans. No player should have to fear randomly being assaulted on the pitch by a spectator.

As usual it's the minority that spoil things and the majority will have to suffer the consequences.

 

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13 hours ago, faraway saint said:

It seems there's been a recent rise in various forms of unacceptable behaviour of football fans.

Todays incident at the Villa game the latest and possibly the worst.

It'll be interesting to see what the authorities in England do as there seems to be little action taken north of the border.

 

Lock the offenders in a room with St Ricky for a night, it will stop immediatel!

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The point we should be very clear on as supporters is that a football club should never be treated as a group identity. That's opening the door to all kinds of political nonsense and massive fines that Scottish football could do without. 

Treat individuals as the idiots they are and throw the book at them, but strict liability would be a disaster waiting to happen. Government would 100% use it as a way to make money.

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Just now, Doakes said:

The point we should be very clear on as supporters is that a football club should never be treated as a group identity. That's opening the door to all kinds of political nonsense and massive fines that Scottish football could do without. 

Treat individuals as the idiots they are and throw the book at them, but strict liability would be a disaster waiting to happen. Government would 100% use it as a way to make money.

I'm of the opinion that clubs shouldn't be seen as an easy target but the problem is your solution is retrospective, and the damage has already been done.

Would stronger legal action stop these lunatics, I'm not so sure. 

It's not an easy situation to solve. 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

I'm of the opinion that clubs shouldn't be seen as an easy target but the problem is your solution is retrospective, and the damage has already been done.

Would stronger legal action stop these lunatics, I'm not so sure. 

It's not an easy situation to solve. 

 

 

If the legal action was towards the individual, maybe. These types don't really like or enjoy football though, they don't care about a clubs reputation, all they care about is trying to "out-scum" each other. 

All strict liability does is gives the government a hammer to crack a nut, won't stop it. It could even open the door to opposing groups infiltrating each others stadiums to get the other club a fine, knowing full well the worst they'll get as an individual is a night in the cells or a banning order. (which they can get around by using a fake name and wearing a scarf and hoody) 

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9 minutes ago, Doakes said:

If the legal action was towards the individual, maybe. These types don't really like or enjoy football though, they don't care about a clubs reputation, all they care about is trying to "out-scum" each other. 

All strict liability does is gives the government a hammer to crack a nut, won't stop it. It could even open the door to opposing groups infiltrating each others stadiums to get the other club a fine, knowing full well the worst they'll get as an individual is a night in the cells or a banning order. (which they can get around by using a fake name and wearing a scarf and hoody) 

A breathalyser at the gate might help? :wink:

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Sponsors really need to step up a bit and put financial pressure on clubs, their silence could be seen as condoning the behaviour. Sponsors could state in their contracts, any defined unacceptable behaviour would mean a withholding of monies / cancellation of the contract with anything having been paid, being refunded.

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Just now, melmac said:

Sponsors really need to step up a bit and put financial pressure on clubs, their silence could be seen as condoning the behaviour. Sponsors could state in their contracts, any defined unacceptable behaviour would mean a withholding of monies / cancellation of the contract with anything having been paid, being refunded.

What, really, can the clubs do?

Seems their (the clubs) choices are limited and would be getting punished for something that is, largely IMO, out of their hands? 

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This issue is something that is never going to be fully resolved. It's like saying you want world peace, it's never going to happen.

Unfortunately this notion is too much for many people including pundits and the media to understand. There isn't always an answer to every problem.  Sometimes you just need to live with it.

There has been trouble at the football since Jesus was a boy and there will always continue to be. The idea of punishing clubs for society's problem is beyond ridiculous for so many reasons.

Edited by LargsBud

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5 hours ago, Doakes said:

The point we should be very clear on as supporters is that a football club should never be treated as a group identity. That's opening the door to all kinds of political nonsense and massive fines that Scottish football could do without. 

Treat individuals as the idiots they are and throw the book at them, but strict liability would be a disaster waiting to happen. Government would 100% use it as a way to make money.

The only way to avoid sanctions like this is for fellow fans to stop talking about "grassing" as though we are living in 1980's Northern Ireland and start working to police the stands themselves. I'm not making a comment about specific sections or groups. Nobody should be allowed to get away with any of this without someone calling the club and reporting them. We need to make collusion socially unacceptable.

As fans we have some hard questions to answer about what we are prepared to do to help resolve this. It's not just on the authorities.

 

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4 hours ago, Doakes said:

If the legal action was towards the individual, maybe. These types don't really like or enjoy football though, they don't care about a clubs reputation, all they care about is trying to "out-scum" each other. 

All strict liability does is gives the government a hammer to crack a nut, won't stop it. It could even open the door to opposing groups infiltrating each others stadiums to get the other club a fine, knowing full well the worst they'll get as an individual is a night in the cells or a banning order. (which they can get around by using a fake name and wearing a scarf and hoody) 

That second paragraph is a big risk and it's a course of action which could be avoided if fellow fans stopped colluding with those committing crimes in the stadium - coin throwing etc.

These guys are ruining the game and they are being allowed to because a power vacuum surrounds them where people won't cough them up to the authorities.

Some of us are old enough to remember what happened to the tennis player Monica Seles. Can we honestly put our hand on our hearts and say that could categorically never happen in football?

Phil Neville may be right. Maybe it;'s going to take a player getting seriously injured or killed by a stray punch (happens every week around the country) before everyone wakes up.

Edited by oaksoft

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19 minutes ago, LargsBud said:

This issue is something that is never going to be fully resolved. It's like saying you want world peace, it's never going to happen.

Unfortunately this notion is too much for many people including pundits and the media to understand. There isn't always an answer to every problem.  Sometimes you just need to live with it.

There has been trouble at the football since Jesus was a boy and there will always continue to be. The idea of punishing clubs for society's problem is beyond ridiculous for so many reasons.

Are you suggesting that the recent events are acceptable or are impossible to fix?

As has been said, putting ALL the onus on clubs is unfair and a cop out but it's also fair that clubs have a part to play.

Also, as Oaky has suggested, the support have a part to play. 

Certainly the support should not be accepting the actions of idiots or something to be applauded.

Edited by faraway saint

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3 hours ago, cockles1987 said:

I got one the other week after a works morning, afternoon, evening, night, morning day out.

It registered almost 0, either someone was serving me No or low alcohol whisky, vodka, rum, gin, and lager then I wouldn't trust any non calibrated breathalysers. emoji6.png

Are you sure you weren't so drunk that you picked up a pregnancy kit by mistake?

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12 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Are you suggesting that the recent events are acceptable or are impossible to fix?

As has been said, putting ALL the onus on clubs is unfair and a cop out but it's also fair that clubs have a part to play.

Also, as Oaky has suggested, the support have a part to play. 

Certainly the support should not be accepting the actions of idiots or something to be applauded.

If by fix you mean stopping it completely then yes it is impossible. 

Take yesterday's Birmingham derby for example. 30k people there. If one drunken idiot out of 30k people decides he wants to run onto the park there is absolutely nothing stopping him.

It doesn't happen every week. In fact I've never seen it discussed on MOTD before apart from last night so it's hardly as widespread as we're made believe.

Clubs can only condemn it and move on. Nothing else can be done.

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9 minutes ago, LargsBud said:

If by fix you mean stopping it completely then yes it is impossible. 

Take yesterday's Birmingham derby for example. 30k people there. If one drunken idiot out of 30k people decides he wants to run onto the park there is absolutely nothing stopping him.

It doesn't happen every week. In fact I've never seen it discussed on MOTD before apart from last night so it's hardly as widespread as we're made believe.

Clubs can only condemn it and move on. Nothing else can be done.

You swerved the "acceptable" aspect, well done.

No I don't mean completely, I mean to work on reducing it.

It's a deep problem that, as I said, clubs alone cannot be expected to take full responsibility for.

It was discussed on MOTD as it was a very severe incident and could have been a lot worse.

Have you not seen the recent events, not all about running onto the park? 

You seem very willing to accept it. 

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