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[bazil85]

Just now, BuddieinEK said:

Lost fans.

Kids lost to the game for years to come?

So you have now more than halfed your estimated profit that you were adamant was correct.

More reversing bleepers!

Back to the 4,500 EXTRA supporters... How was that calculated?

I think you'll find my average attendance numbers, the Dundee crowd, increased season ticket sales and big away followings are pretty strong evidence we aren't losing fans in other games because of this. 

No I haven't more than halved, I've simply proven to you that even at the most reserved estimate, I am still correct in the income being between one and two players salaries because of your sheer refusal to admit you're wrong despite all the evidence. I'll ask again, what's your estimate for the income?

Eh the family stand holds 1,654 and it's practically sold out the three times they have visited, or do you disagree on that as well? Again 4,500 is reserved. 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

We haven't attracted an extra 4500 fans for the games against the old firm compared to previous attendances.

[BuddieinEK]

I think you'll find my average attendance numbers, the Dundee crowd, increased season ticket sales and big away followings are pretty strong evidence we aren't losing fans in other games because of this. 
No I haven't more than halved, I've simply proven to you that even at the most reserved estimate, I am still correct in the income being between one and two players salaries because of your sheer refusal to admit you're wrong despite all the evidence. I'll ask again, what's your estimate for the income?
Eh the family stand holds 1,654 and it's practically sold out the three times they have visited, or do you disagree on that as well? Again 4,500 is reserved. 

1654 x three is not all additional.

You fail to account for their fans previously filling W6 and W7 which is how many fans exactly?

[BuddieinEK]

We haven't attracted an extra 4500 fans for the games against the old firm compared to previous attendances.

Recalculate as follows... West stand holds just over 2,500.

 

If all seven sections are even approximately similar in size, that would be 357 per section.

 

W6 and W7 would then hold 2142 away fans over your three games.

 

So... Like you, I will be generous...

 

Knock 2,000 off your estimate of EXTRA away fans and recalculate!

 

 

Edited to add... Sorry TAFKAP... That wasn't directed at you.

[BuddieinEK]

Nope, I worked it out on the very reserved £20 to allow for concessions, I also ignored that the stand actually holds more than 1,500 and the strengthened position we'd be in for catering. Again it was very reserved. 
Police costs are £4,500 per game and they're weighted to bigger crowds so ours will be low end of the scale. Believe it or not a few extra stewards won't be a considerable expense. 

We don't get income from catering sales... The franchisee does.
But you probably knew that!

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Recalculate as follows... West stand holds just over 2,500. 
If all seven sections are even approximately similar in size, that would be 357 per section.
 
W6 and W7 would then hold 2142 away fans over your three games.
 
So... Like you, I will be generous...
 
Knock 2,000 off your estimate of EXTRA away fans and recalculate!
 
 
Edited to add... Sorry TAFKAP... That wasn't directed at you.

[emoji23]

[bazil85]

36 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

We haven't attracted an extra 4500 fans for the games against the old firm compared to previous attendances.

The debate is between giving them one stand or given them two stands. Given them the extra stand pretty much doubles the available away crowd. The second stand has almost sold out each time so yes we have by the capacity of the second stands. 

[BuddieinEK]

Baz... You say attendances at games like Dundee prove we are not losing fans to this set up.

As others have pointed out, there are a number of factors that have increased support.

That aside though, this is the first season under the new arrangement... You WON'T have proof yet.

By the time you do, it will be too late to get those fans back!

Very short term approach for what you have now evidenced to be not even enough money to pay a single players full wage!

[bazil85]

28 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

1654 x three is not all additional.

You fail to account for their fans previously filling W6 and W7 which is how many fans exactly?

I have never once said that’s what I’m basing my figures on, please see my earlier posts. GLS had made a promise if we sell X amount then the west stand would always be for St Mirren fans meaning our choices were give them one stand or give them two. 

You’re running out of corners to hide in here 

[BuddieinEK]

The debate is between giving them one stand or given them two stands. Given them the extra stand pretty much doubles the available away crowd. The second stand has almost sold out each time so yes we have by the capacity of the second stands. 

No Baz...
They previously had the away stand and W6 and W7.

They now have the away stand and the stand formerly known as the Family stand.

The difference between the two totals is your net increase.

Very simple arithmetic!

[bazil85]

19 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

We don't get income from catering sales... The franchisee does.
But you probably knew that!

The franchise buys the right to sell food at our ground. Our negotiation position is based on projected footfall which increases under this arrangement. But you probably knew that.

Another corner blocked off. 

[bazil85]

2 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

No Baz...
They previously had the away stand and W6 and W7.

They now have the away stand and the stand formerly known as the Family stand.

The difference between the two totals is your net increase.

Very simple arithmetic!

Desperation much? If you look back over the last few pages you’ll see I have very clearly and transparently said my calculations are based on given them one or given them two stands. GLS promise to keep West for St Mirren fans means the option we did a few years ago was no longer there and therefore irrelevant. 

He said as much in his spring message that we would be keeping West for all St Mirren fans meaning the comparison on previous years is pointless. The explosion on here if they gave up W6/7 would be massive. 

So you admit my calculations of between one and two players is correct given the difference between the only viable two options available to us? (Give then one or give them two stands) great. 

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

What’s your estimate for the income the arrangement has returned? 

How to piss everyone off - Class One

1) Change goalposts

2) Deflect

3) Present only supporting information

4) Ridicule and discard everything else

5) Make meaningless comparisons and then claim the result of those comparisons are valid and real

6) Keep repeating your lines (the Theresa May method)

7) Treat your audience as though they don't understand basic arithmetic

8) Pretend your audience is agreeing with you when they are not

You are heading for a solid A in this subject baz.

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, BuddieinEK said:

So it is now 4500 extra bums on seats... All conveniently paying the adult ticket price?

They previously had W6 and 7 but you also conveniently forget to deduct that number from your total "additional" places.

You don't deduct reduced season ticket income.

You fail to factor in increased stewarding costs.

You are all over the place with this one!

Where the hell is he getting 4500 extra adult seat purchases from at an OF match?

We are still talking about allowing OF fans into the Family stands aren't we?

I ask because I'm confused about why baz is bringing Hearts and Hibs into this.

Just one of life's fascinating conundrums.

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

I think you'll find my average attendance numbers, the Dundee crowd, increased season ticket sales and big away followings are pretty strong evidence we aren't losing fans in other games because of this. 

No I haven't more than halved, I've simply proven to you that even at the most reserved estimate, I am still correct in the income being between one and two players salaries because of your sheer refusal to admit you're wrong despite all the evidence. I'll ask again, what's your estimate for the income?

Eh the family stand holds 1,654 and it's practically sold out the three times they have visited, or do you disagree on that as well? Again 4,500 is reserved. 

Stop wittering on about a single Dundee game.
We are talking about the OF taking the family stand.

Focus baz FFS.

[BuddieinEK]

Where the hell is he getting 4500 extra adult seat purchases from at an OF match? [emoji38]
We are still talking about allowing OF fans into the Family stands aren't we?
I ask because I'm confused about why baz is bringing Hearts and Hibs into this.
Just one of life's fascinating conundrums.

And Dundee... Don't forget Dundee. They prove his point after all! [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

[bazil85]

5 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

How to piss everyone off - Class One

1) Change goalposts - Where have I done this?

2) Deflect - Where have I done this? 

3) Present only supporting information - Feel free to present any adverse information I have missed

4) Ridicule and discard everything else - I've dealt in facts and very reserved calculations

5) Make meaningless comparisons and then claim the result of those comparisons are valid and real - Again the comparisons I've made have been massively reserved 

6) Keep repeating your lines (the Theresa May method) - I simply respond

7) Treat your audience as though they don't understand basic arithmetic - I'm getting that impression

8) Pretend your audience is agreeing with you when they are not - Seemingly they do now that they see my point (as it has been all along) is been between one and two stands or do you still not? 

You are heading for a solid A in this subject baz.

 

[BuddieinEK]

Desperation much? If you look back over the last few pages you’ll see I have very clearly and transparently said my calculations are based on given them one or given them two stands. GLS promise to keep West for St Mirren fans means the option we did a few years ago was no longer there and therefore irrelevant. 
He said as much in his spring message that we would be keeping West for all St Mirren fans meaning the comparison on previous years is pointless. The explosion on here if they gave up W6/7 would be massive. 
So you admit my calculations of between one and two players is correct given the difference between the only viable two options available to us? (Give then one or give them two stands) great. 

More moving of goalposts!

They HAD the away stand and W6 and W7.

They were always going to have that as a minimum.

Rather than give them W6 and W7, they REPLACED that by giving them the family stand.

PROFIT is only generated on the actual increase between what they HAD and what they HAVE (minus increased overheads)!

You should be a politician!
Blair's spin doctors have nothing on you!

[bazil85]

3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Stop wittering on about a single Dundee game.
We are talking about the OF taking the family stand.

Focus baz FFS.

Okay well what about our last week game fixture at home? Kilmarnock game crowd also strongly backs up my claim that we ain't losing very many fans at the OF games to make the arrangement not financially lucrative. I am noticing a theme where people are challenging my points without actually making counter arguments to disprove them. 

[BuddieinEK]

I have never once said that’s what I’m basing my figures on, please see my earlier posts. GLS had made a promise if we sell X amount then the west stand would always be for St Mirren fans meaning our choices were give them one stand or give them two. 
You’re running out of corners to hide in here 

Beeeep beeeeep beeeeeeep beeeeeep! [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

[oaksoft]

50 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

The debate is between giving them one stand or given them two stands. Given them the extra stand pretty much doubles the available away crowd. The second stand has almost sold out each time so yes we have by the capacity of the second stands. 

No it isn't. That would be the meaningless comparison I was talking about.

You are trying to make it about that but we are all way too clever to fall for your bullshit.

The only meaningful discussion is what financial increase did we see after Gordon's decision to let them have the Family stand.

[BuddieinEK]

The franchise buys the right to sell food at our ground. Our negotiation position is based on projected footfall which increases under this arrangement. But you probably knew that.
Another corner blocked off. 

Strengthened position for catering!

If you think three games would significantly increase our contract, whilst deciding not to pay our stewards, I hope you never get to run a business for the sake of your employees!

Maybe we could pay the stewards in pies?

Makes as much sense as your argument, which becomes increasingly bizarre by the post! [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

[BuddieinEK]

Okay well what about our last week game fixture at home? Kilmarnock game crowd also strongly backs up my claim that we ain't losing very many fans at the OF games to make the arrangement not financially lucrative. I am noticing a theme where people are challenging my points without actually making counter arguments to disprove them. 

A home crowd against Killie shows we are not losing fans against Rangers?
[emoji15] [emoji15] [emoji15]

[bazil85]

1 minute ago, BuddieinEK said:

More moving of goalposts!

They HAD the away stand and W6 and W7.

They were always going to have that as a minimum.

Rather than give them W6 and W7, they REPLACED that by giving them the family stand.

PROFIT is only generated on the actual increase between what they HAD and what they HAVE (minus increased overheads)!

You should be a politician!
Blair's spin doctors have nothing on you!

Yet again (must be the fifth time) please feel free to quote any message from me where it suggests I was looking at what we did over four seasons ago? My point is and always has been the difference between given them one stand and two stands. The only two options from GLS message that was available as he had stated West would be for St Mirren fans only given ticket sales. Why on earth would me or anyone else compare between an option that was already ruled out before a ball was kicked this season? It makes zero sense. 

Do you actually think W6/7 was an option at any point before season? I seen nothing to suggest that and I think there would have been massive backlash so it's a moot point IMO. 

In saying that (here we go again). The difference in tickets available to the OF in getting two stands compared to just W6/7 is 936 tickets. (1,654 - 718). 936 X 20 X 3

Again allowing for concession tickets. That would be an income of £56,160 + the added catering income. Even taking off added policing costs I'd still likely not be far away in my estimate of between one and two players. 

Again to clarify because people really struggle to take this in. THIS WAS NEVER THE CALCULATION I WAS DOING. Away you go and search out another corner. 

[bazil85]

11 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Beeeep beeeeep beeeeeeep beeeeeep!

Good comeback