BuddieinEK Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 Have a wee look at any season we’ve been in the SP the last nine seasons at the stadium and come back to me on this point. We can see if you’re still laughing. Looks like only one of us has done research here... Doh How far back are you going to try and justify your lack of understanding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 Yet again and i’ll Type this slowly for you as well. Without knowing the numbers that bought the reduced price ticket I could not possibly answer. Heres a question for you though, do you think average crowds of no less than 500 fans more this season are likely to result in a drop of income? If the answer is yes my second question is seriously??? [emoji38]Without knowing the numbers.Excellent.We are getting somewhere.You don't know how the additional players wages will be paid.. you just believe and hope they will be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 No you’re both right, the board didn’t cost this at all and have given away two stands even though it has cost the club money. Police costs are £50k per game, steward costs even more and we also lose half the income into a black hole at the back of Greenhill Road thats a lot more likely to be correct than my very simple, evidence backed maths [emoji38]They did cost it... In the short term.I like to plan ahead!They took the easy option.I prefer the best long term option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 4 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said: 16 minutes ago, bazil85 said: Have a wee look at any season we’ve been in the SP the last nine seasons at the stadium and come back to me on this point. We can see if you’re still laughing. Looks like only one of us has done research here... Doh How far back are you going to try and justify your lack of understanding? Em that makes no sense. My point is this is the highest average crowd (by far) we’ve had at the new stadium. It’s very clear evidence that this approach is generating income. How on earth can you disagree with that?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said: Without knowing the numbers. Excellent. We are getting somewhere. You don't know how the additional players wages will be paid.. you just believe and hope they will be! Again another response that makes absolutely no sense. Do you not think higher crowds results in more income? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said: They did cost it... In the short term. I like to plan ahead! They took the easy option. I prefer the best long term option. Would that be the long term option where we reduce our income by the equivalent of 1 or 2 players wages? Given how close we are to the edge right now, an approach that potentially could get us relegated? Great long-term planning that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 Em that makes no sense. My point is this is the highest average crowd (by far) we’ve had at the new stadium. It’s very clear evidence that this approach is generating income. How on earth can you disagree with that?? [emoji38]Average crowd against ALL teams, not just the OF which the discussion is about.You quote premier league attendances and compare them to championship attendances with far lower away fans.You really are embarrassing yourself now with this level of ignorance/ blind faith! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 Would that be the long term option where we reduce our income by the equivalent of 1 or 2 players wages? Given how close we are to the edge right now, an approach that potentially could get us relegated? Great long-term planning that That would be the long term where we actually have a fan base, having not chased today's youth and tomorrow's customer away! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 Yet again.. and I will type this slowly for the hard of thinking...How much lower was our season ticket income purely because of the decision to reduce family stand tickets costs to exclude of games.The thing you didn't include in your costing. Baz mon ami... This. I ask again!Given you assured me you had considered all deductions yet totally discarded this... Then went on to confess you have NO idea how much it cost us...Yet still bang on about one or two extra players...You are a deluded blind follower! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, BuddieinEK said: Baz mon ami... This. I ask again! Given you assured me you had considered all deductions yet totally discarded this... Then went on to confess you have NO idea how much it cost us... Yet still bang on about one or two extra players... You are a deluded blind follower! Wait till Baz realises we'll be lucky to have enough left to pay the Burgh's wage bill next season after going through 41 players, 2 managers, a Tech Dir, and a handful of backroom staff and compensation mutuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanb Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 1 hour ago, BuddieinEK said: Average crowd against ALL teams, not just the OF which the discussion is about. You quote premier league attendances and compare them to championship attendances with far lower away fans. You really are embarrassing yourself now with this level of ignorance/ blind faith! The last season we spent in the top league included Inverness, Ross County, Hamilton and St Johnstone. Teams who brought 4 men and a dog to our ground, no Hibs or Hearts then either so no wonder our crowds this season are up. Sitting in the main stand and been surrounded by "THEM" this season either from the corporate lounge or "sneaky ins", even some using season tickets of non attenders. Any benefit of a few extra bums in the Family stand is lost due to extra costs of policing and stewarding, along with a poor take up of the Special relocation offers available to family standards ( even allowing for the increases in ticket prices). Interesting to see how many attend our next two home games featuring Accies and St Johnstone affect our increased Ave attendance for the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 hours ago, BuddieinEK said: Average crowd against ALL teams, not just the OF which the discussion is about. You quote premier league attendances and compare them to championship attendances with far lower away fans. You really are embarrassing yourself now with this level of ignorance/ blind faith! Are you incapable of understanding for most of our history in this stadium we have been in the SP yet these crowds are the highest? In other words , no I’m not comparing against the Championship seasons. Youre actully beaten on two fronts here. Either 1. Yes this has caused higher crowds by given two stands or 2. It hasn’t impacted crowd numbers because they’re still higher than any previous season in this stadium (including in the SP) don’t take my word for it. Here are the FACTS below starting with this season for all our recent years in the SP. 5,295 - 18/19 (so far) 3,906 - 14/15 4,511 - 13/14 4,389 - 12/13 4,393 - 11/12 4,450 - 10/11 4,414 - 09/10 Feel free to check, i’ll Wait for you to admit I’m right or move your goalposts again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 hours ago, BuddieinEK said: Baz mon ami... This. I ask again! Given you assured me you had considered all deductions yet totally discarded this... Then went on to confess you have NO idea how much it cost us... Yet still bang on about one or two extra players... You are a deluded blind follower! I’ll ask again, do you actually think us having by far more bums on seat this season has cost us money because for three games a season a few hundred fans have the choice to spend £10 to move their seat? Think about the stand full of people spending up to £27 that counteract that number and give us all an honest answer if you genuinely think that costs us money. I have provided average crowd stats going back pretty much a decade now. Seasons that included Hearts, Hibs and the old Rangers. The corners for you to hide in that suggest we haven’t got increased crowds this season are slowly shrinking. I’m sure you’ll continue to try and move goalposts though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 13 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: Wait till Baz realises we'll be lucky to have enough left to pay the Burgh's wage bill next season after going through 41 players, 2 managers, a Tech Dir, and a handful of backroom staff and compensation mutuals. Yep, due to a shocking managerial appointment. I don’t deny that at all. You are under a disillusion I will protect the board from any criticism, I won’t. They deserve a lot for hiring Stubbs, a guy in my opinion who was a clear wrong choice before he walked in the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 14 minutes ago, alanb said: The last season we spent in the top league included Inverness, Ross County, Hamilton and St Johnstone. Teams who brought 4 men and a dog to our ground, no Hibs or Hearts then either so no wonder our crowds this season are up. Sitting in the main stand and been surrounded by "THEM" this season either from the corporate lounge or "sneaky ins", even some using season tickets of non attenders. Any benefit of a few extra bums in the Family stand is lost due to extra costs of policing and stewarding, along with a poor take up of the Special relocation offers available to family standards ( even allowing for the increases in ticket prices). Interesting to see how many attend our next two home games featuring Accies and St Johnstone affect our increased Ave attendance for the season. I have addressed this several times, it is a completely misguided assumption. Policing cost (again) averages roughly £4,500 per game and is weighted to bigger crowds. Our policing costs at these games will be much less so no, we don’t lose the benefit through these extra costs. Don’t believe me? Google it, the figures have been released. My crowd figures for this season (again also released) also completely disprove we are seeing a drop in attendance. It isn’t ideal having to move a few hundred fans (I genuinely wish we didn’t have to and wouldn’t be surprised if it was changed in the future) but the cost of some of them not going is massively outweighted by 1,000+ buying tickets at up to £27. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanb Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, bazil85 said: I have addressed this several times, it is a completely misguided assumption. Policing cost (again) averages roughly £4,500 per game and is weighted to bigger crowds. Our policing costs at these games will be much less so no, we don’t lose the benefit through these extra costs. Don’t believe me? Google it, the figures have been released. My crowd figures for this season (again also released) also completely disprove we are seeing a drop in attendance. It isn’t ideal having to move a few hundred fans (I genuinely wish we didn’t have to and wouldn’t be surprised if it was changed in the future) but the cost of some of them not going is massively outweighted by 1,000+ buying tickets at up to £27. I am suggesting our average crowds are up this season due to the teams in the league now compared to the last time in the top league Hibs and Hearts bring more than Caley or County did so more than giving away family seats account for the increased average. We will certainly have made more money overall but also wasted a lot of it sadly. Edited April 7, 2019 by alanb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 Are you incapable of understanding for most of our history in this stadium we have been in the SP yet these crowds are the highest? In other words , no I’m not comparing against the Championship seasons. Youre actully beaten on two fronts here. Either 1. Yes this has caused higher crowds by given two stands or 2. It hasn’t impacted crowd numbers because they’re still higher than any previous season in this stadium (including in the SP) don’t take my word for it. Here are the FACTS below starting with this season for all our recent years in the SP. 5,295 - 18/19 (so far) 3,906 - 14/15 4,511 - 13/14 4,389 - 12/13 4,393 - 11/12 4,450 - 10/11 4,414 - 09/10 Feel free to check, i’ll Wait for you to admit I’m right or move your goalposts again You can't just look at these average figures in isolation though bazil. We need to look at numbers of home fans attending. I have no doubt these are up this season.Also the away support, without old firm, I suspect is also up as evidenced by Dundee's two crowds this season. Apart from St. Johnstone and accies, I've been impressed by the rest of the away numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 3 hours ago, bazil85 said: Or you could always just point out where it is wrong? Do you agree given I’m comparing one stand vs two it is correct? Look I'm a pretty reasonable person but I can't keep repeating myself over this. The only thing that matters is how much extra revenue did the club bring in through the experiment of moving OF fans from W6 and W7 to the Family stand compared to what we would have had if we'd left them in W6/W7 and kept the Family stand for ourselves. Nothing else matters because nothing else actually happened. If you want to discuss any other numbers then I'm happy to leave you to discuss it with others. It's Sunday. Let me be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanb Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: You can't just look at these average figures in isolation though bazil. We need to look at numbers of home fans attending. I have no doubt these are up this season. Also the away support, without old firm, I suspect is also up as evidenced by Dundee's two crowds this season. Apart from St. Johnstone and accies, I've been impressed by the rest of the away numbers. Point I was making, add in Hearts and Hibs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 South Stand (Drums Avenue) - capacity 1,654. (Family Stand) The three OF games where they have been given the family stand are unique and comparing them with non-OF matches this season and games from previous seasons is pointless. What is relevant is the revenue generated by the extra attendance (Max 1654) minus the fans who stay away which can only be estmated with information privy to the BoD. Personally I've been to 2 of the 3 matches and definitely won't go to another OF match where they are given two stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 3 hours ago, bazil85 said: Would that be the long term option where we reduce our income by the equivalent of 1 or 2 players wages? Given how close we are to the edge right now, an approach that potentially could get us relegated? Great long-term planning that BuddieInEK is right. Whatever side of the argument you are on. giving the OF the Family stand was short termism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 37 minutes ago, bazil85 said: Are you incapable of understanding for most of our history in this stadium we have been in the SP yet these crowds are the highest? In other words , no I’m not comparing against the Championship seasons. Youre actully beaten on two fronts here. Either 1. Yes this has caused higher crowds by given two stands or 2. It hasn’t impacted crowd numbers because they’re still higher than any previous season in this stadium (including in the SP) don’t take my word for it. Here are the FACTS below starting with this season for all our recent years in the SP. 5,295 - 18/19 (so far) 3,906 - 14/15 4,511 - 13/14 4,389 - 12/13 4,393 - 11/12 4,450 - 10/11 4,414 - 09/10 Feel free to check, i’ll Wait for you to admit I’m right or move your goalposts again Your analysis of why these numbers are so high this season is at the root of your problem. You seem convinced that it's just because of the extra OF seats. Why don't you try comparing our home crowds against Hibs, Hearts, Killie and the others against respective fixtures in the years you have listed and you'll see they are ALL up on the norm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 Are you incapable of understanding for most of our history in this stadium we have been in the SP yet these crowds are the highest? In other words , no I’m not comparing against the Championship seasons. Youre actully beaten on two fronts here. Either 1. Yes this has caused higher crowds by given two stands or 2. It hasn’t impacted crowd numbers because they’re still higher than any previous season in this stadium (including in the SP) don’t take my word for it. Here are the FACTS below starting with this season for all our recent years in the SP. 5,295 - 18/19 (so far) 3,906 - 14/15 4,511 - 13/14 4,389 - 12/13 4,393 - 11/12 4,450 - 10/11 4,414 - 09/10 Feel free to check, i’ll Wait for you to admit I’m right or move your goalposts again Are you incapable. Full stop?Others have pointed out all the inconsistencies and inaccuracies in your well researched politician like waffle that answers everything but the question and serves only to deflect.It should be easy to calculate for a man of your numeracy.Number of Family Stand season ticket holders.Drop in income from them, which you totally denied even existed.Do you deny you denied it now?[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji38] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: South Stand (Drums Avenue) - capacity 1,654. (Family Stand) The three OF games where they have been given the family stand are unique and comparing them with non-OF matches this season and games from previous seasons is pointless. What is relevant is the revenue generated by the extra attendance (Max 1654) minus the fans who stay away which can only be estmated with information privy to the BoD. Personally I've been to 2 of the 3 matches and definitely won't go to another OF match where they are given two stands. You also need to subtract the amount they were paying to sit in W6/7 previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 28 minutes ago, alanb said: I am suggesting our average crowds are up this season due to the teams in the league now compared to the last time in the top league Hibs and Hearts bring more than Caley or County did so more than giving away family seats account for the increased average. We will certainly have made more money overall but also wasted a lot of it sadly. I shared stats on previous seasons when Hibs, Hearts and Old Rangers were all the league and they’re still up then as well. I don’t like it anymore than anyone else but the three games have been a decent factor in increased income this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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