If we stay up... Give us the family stand back.

[BuddieinEK]

Yep and I simply asked you for your reasoning behind it. I have no issue with different opinions, I just asked for an explanation which you didn't provide (which is fine you don't have to)
When you say 'no significant increase in attendance' I'm not sure what you mean. I am not claiming our home crowds go up, (the evidence doesn't point to them going considerably down either) but an extra close to full stand isn't significant in attendance numbers?? 
I am categorically not making different arguments, you can hold onto the use of the word 'few' if you want even after I have put my hands up (big of you) but it doesn't change my claims one jot. 
Where have my figures on 'record season ticket sales' 'much higher average attendance' 'much increased away fans at these games' 'no clear indication of considerable reduced home fans' been challenged? I must have missed that and all the evidence to prove these points wrong... 

Errrr.... You do remember we were in a lower division last season?
[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

[bazil85]

10 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

W6 and W7 is right next to the away stand so they actually ARE in one part of the ground as opposed to opposite ends.

 

Told you before... Reading your guff hurts my brain enough without you wanting me to trawl through it again just so you can spin faster!

 

I didn't say you preferred Rangers to Celtic.

 

A bigot might take it that way, but I certainly didn't say it.

 

Nice that you are equally comfortable surrounded by either Rangers or Celtic, given how essential to Scottish football and our welfare you obviously believe they are!

 

hahahahahaha we have a new level of desperation here. 'W6/7 and the away stand are the same part of the ground'  No mention on the added cost of separation and the extra risk of segregating one stand? 

Your flute comment wasn't eluding to anything then? Just an off the cuff remark... 

Last bit I have already proven you have lied about, I have never said that and again I would welcome them leaving our game. You've been caught so many times here, I find it strange no one else is willing to call you out on it but are happy to continually fight with me... 

[bazil85]

2 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Errrr.... You do remember we were in a lower division last season?

 

Errrr you do remember me quoting the crowd stats on every single season we've been in the top flight while at this stadium and our average crowd still being over 700 greater than the second best attended season? Errr you're having a mare here 

[BuddieinEK]

Errrr you do remember me quoting the crowd stats on every single season we've been in the top flight while at this stadium and our average crowd still being over 700 greater than the second best attended season? Errr you're having a mare here [emoji38]

Errrrrr.... Different opposing teams and a dead Rangers mean you are "proving" nothing... Just regurgitating random numbers.

As many others have alluded to, you are comparing apples and postits!

Only one mare here... as very many others will testify to!

The away stand and W6 W7 can be accessed from the same area meaning none of our fans are forced to cross them.

Really not hard to understand!

You tell me... How do our fans get to the West or Main stands without passing them when they have both ends of the stadium?

Of course it's easier to police and steward.

[bazil85]

3 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Errrrrr.... Different opposing teams and a dead Rangers mean you are "proving" nothing... Just regurgitating random numbers.

As many others have alluded to, you are comparing apples and postits!

Only one mare here... as very many others will testify to!

The away stand and W6 W7 can be accessed from the same area meaning none of our fans are forced to cross them.

Really not hard to understand!

You tell me... How do our fans get to the West or Main stands without passing them when they have both ends of the stadium?

Of course it's easier to police and steward.

You realise the sample includes when the dead Rangers, Hearts, Hibs and Dundee United have all been in the league? Given a large sample (seven which is the maximum sample available given when we moved to the stadium) and the fact we are so overwhelmingly ahead is very strong evidence. You know what else is evidence? Our record season ticket sales at the stadium, were they influenced by dead Rangers as well? 

Comparing crowds this season on other seasons 

Comparing home crowds this season against other home crowds this season

Comparing the tickets sold to the bigots this season to tickets sold to the bigots in previous seasons. 

Apples and post-its right enough 

Others can testify but they don't seem to be willing to counter the figures and facts I've provided. 

W6/7 and away stand can't, don't be so ridiculous, there isn't one gate that accesses both without jumping between stands 

I never said they could, is that you lying again and putting yet more words in my mouth? You still need to separate the two loads of fans in the one stand, where our stadium is there is still crossover regardless of where they sit, it's the same anywhere. 

 

[BuddieinEK]

You realise the sample includes when the dead Rangers, Hearts, Hibs and Dundee United have all been in the league? Given a large sample (seven which is the maximum sample available given when we moved to the stadium) and the fact we are so overwhelmingly ahead is very strong evidence. You know what else is evidence? Our record season ticket sales at the stadium, were they influenced by dead Rangers as well? 
Comparing crowds this season on other seasons 
Comparing home crowds this season against other home crowds this season
Comparing the tickets sold to the bigots this season to tickets sold to the bigots in previous seasons. 
Apples and post-its right enough 
Others can testify but they don't seem to be willing to counter the figures and facts I've provided. 
W6/7 and away stand can't, don't be so ridiculous, there isn't one gate that accesses both without jumping between stands [emoji38]
I never said they could, is that you lying again and putting yet more words in my mouth? You still need to separate the two loads of fans in the one stand, where our stadium is there is still crossover regardless of where they sit, it's the same anywhere. 
 

Not necessarily.
Besides... Even in your utopian one stand scenario, there is more than one gate!

Reduced to counting gates now.

Oh dear.

You really are desperate!

[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

[Bud the Baker]

1 minute ago, bazil85 said:

1. Yep and I simply asked you for your reasoning behind it. I have no issue with different opinions, I just asked for an explanation which you didn't provide (which is fine you don't have to)

2. When you say 'no significant increase in attendance' I'm not sure what you mean. I am not claiming our home crowds go up, (the evidence doesn't point to them going considerably down either) but an extra close to full stand isn't significant in attendance numbers?? 

3. I am categorically not making different arguments, you can hold onto the use of the word 'few' if you want even after I have put my hands up (big of you) but it doesn't change my claims one jot. 

4. Where have my figures on 'record season ticket sales' 'much higher average attendance' 'much increased away fans at these games' 'no clear indication of considerable reduced home fans' been challenged? I must have missed that and all the evidence to prove these points wrong... 

1.  As I said you were comparing apples with oranges - I said numerous time your stats do not prove what you claim, a criticism voiced by others including DumboBud in my previous post.

2. The figures provided by oaksoft on P13 of the SMiSA thread showed there was no significant increase.

3. You categorically are - it's not "big of you" admitting a grammatical mistake like I say it's denying a contradiction in the arguments you were making in different threads.!

4. That's just noise, you've changed tack so many times you've forgotten what the argument is about - home attendance at OF matches - which is down a fact even you (at times) & GLS admit is true - one of your personalities clearly has clearly forgotten posting that  - the question is whether giving the OF the Family Stand for these matches instead of W6/7 has worsened the situation - I believe it has and  you've failed to disprove it.  

**********************

You clearly do have issues with people who hold different opinions and are constantly dishonest in the arguments you make - I quit the other thread because it's pointless arguing with a liar and unless you come up with something new I won't be returning to this thread.

I'll leave you with two thoughts Melchett85

1. You continually conflate your opinion with facts, evidence and the truth.  Just because something is said by you over and over does not make it true, a fact or a even a balanced conclusion based on facts. - DumboBud
2.  Outposting is not winning the argument.

[bazil85]

6 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Not necessarily.
Besides... Even in your utopian one stand scenario, there is more than one gate!

Reduced to counting gates now.

Oh dear.

You really are desperate!

Not necessarily but do you think it is not bloody likely?  I mean we could say 'not necessarily will we do the same thing next year, or not necessarily will we sell even half the season tickets we did this season next year' Not necessarily is not a strong response at all 

There is, again I didn't say there wasn't. I said there wasn't one gate where both stands can be accessed by, proving your claim 'they're the same part of the ground' wrong. 

I am not reduced to anything, I was responding to your ridiculous claim. Remember we aren't allowed to mention one stand at all... It's punishable by death to even suggest it 

[BuddieinEK]

1.  As I said you were comparing apples with oranges - I said numerous time your stats do not prove what you claim, a criticism voiced by others including DumboBud in my previous post.
2. The figures provided by oaksoft on P13 of the SMiSA thread showed there was no significant increase.
3. You categorically are - it's not "big of you" admitting a grammatical mistake like I say it's denying a contradiction in the arguments you were making in different threads.!
4. That's just noise, you've changed tack so many times you've forgotten what the argument is about - home attendance at OF matches - which is down a fact even you (at times) & GLS admit is true - one of your personalities clearly has clearly forgotten posting that  - the question is whether giving the OF the Family Stand for these matches instead of W6/7 has worsened the situation - I believe it has and  you've failed to disprove it.  
**********************
You clearly do have issues with people who hold different opinions and are constantly dishonest in the arguments you make - I quit the other thread because it's pointless arguing with a liar and unless you come up with something new I won't be returning to this thread.
I'll leave you with two thoughts Melchett85

1. You continually conflate your opinion with facts, evidence and the truth.  Just because something is said by you over and over does not make it true, a fact or a even a balanced conclusion based on facts. - DumboBud
2.  Outposting is not winning the argument.

^^^^ this!
Well said Bud.

[bazil85]

4 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

1.  As I said you were comparing apples with oranges - I said numerous time your stats do not prove what you claim, a criticism voiced by others including DumboBud in my previous post.

2. The figures provided by oaksoft on P13 of the SMiSA thread showed there was no significant increase.

3. You categorically are - it's not "big of you" admitting a grammatical mistake like I say it's denying a contradiction in the arguments you were making in different threads.!

4. That's just noise, you've changed tack so many times you've forgotten what the argument is about - home attendance at OF matches - which is down a fact even you (at times) & GLS admit is true - one of your personalities clearly has clearly forgotten posting that  - the question is whether giving the OF the Family Stand for these matches instead of W6/7 has worsened the situation - I believe it has and  you've failed to disprove it.  

**********************

You clearly do have issues with people who hold different opinions and are constantly dishonest in the arguments you make - I quit the other thread because it's pointless arguing with a liar and unless you come up with something new I won't be returning to this thread.

I'll leave you with two thoughts Melchett85

1. You continually conflate your opinion with facts, evidence and the truth.  Just because something is said by you over and over does not make it true, a fact or a even a balanced conclusion based on facts. - DumboBud
2.  Outposting is not winning the argument.

Another post that says nothing with no evidence to back up your opinion

1. Comparing the Killie & Livi home crowd to the Celtic one to show no clear reduction in home fans for similar games is comparing apples and oranges? Is that the same for comparing average crowds this season and season ticket sales to several other seasons?

2. So you're saying when we give them two stands, we have no significant increase in away fan numbers to the other 15 home league games? I'm really not understanding your point here and I doubt it's what Oak was getting at. I've even quoted some common ground between us two recently. You are however showing how bias you are here. Me comparing crowds is apples and oranges, Oak doing it over a four year period and on a much smaller sample is somehow valid? You also realise his stats were full crowds NOT away crowds? Looking at the Motherwell home game around that time as well, a crowd of 4,001 tell us the lower Rangers crowd was very likely influenced by the performance at that time, not the two stand deal. 

3. There is no contradiction, I was referencing a number I openly gave. I calculated the number of extra seats available. Like I say very big of you to hold onto a point where I have admitted I could have used better wording but it does not change the facts that the numbers I was referring to have been quoted by me in black and white (more than once). 

4. I have not changed tact, I have shown that my opinion is backed up from many different angles. You haven't quoted anything to remotely back up your opinion. The point is on if this arrangement is worthwhile financially and/or causes a significant fall in SMFC home fan numbers. Everything I have quoted backs up my point that it generates income in the region of what I have said and there is no clear considerable reduction in home fans. Livi game, Killie game show it in black and white and the Motherwell games very strongly suggest it. I have said where the details are fact and where the details are from a common sense estimation 

You say I have failed to disprove it but do you agree anything that can be presented as direct evidence (Livi and Killie crowds only) contradict your view? Lets see if you're a big enough person to admit that 

You are again proving my point on the opinion side. I have no issue with it but another post for you has confirmed you are not willing (able) to back up your claim that my figures are wrong. Your opinion is fine but it remains un-backed, mine is not. 

Your remaining two points 

1. show evidence 

2. I don't consider it an argument over opinions, again you're welcome to have yours. Only one of us is backing theres up with stats and common sense. 

[Ayrshire Saints]

2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Do you genuinely think they would have made this call if their crowds hadn't increased? Their average crowd is up 580 on last season and still with likely three of their biggest attended games to come, this will surely rise.

Bit of a coincidence they've made the call this season, it isn't like bigotry is new in this country... 

There average will be down double that plus next season if they maintain this as a permanent policy so it's nothing to do with increased revenue from rising average crowds. This is in direct response to the abuse directed toward SC by both OF supports this season.  It's a stance to be roundly applauded imo. More to life than money especially money tainted by sectarianism. FTOF and all that they stand for now and always. The day we as a support and club need to rely on their cash is the day we should all chuck it.

[oaksoft]

This obsession with OF money to the total exclusion of  all other considerations needs to stop.

1) We don't REALLY need the money. There are several clubs well above us in the league on substantially less than we bring in. Substantially less. Money isn't the problem here. How to spend it IS the issue and now we have Gus on board IMO we are spending that money much more effectively. That appointment was a masterstroke.

2) We piss off our own fans by moving them. There really should be no discussion required about whether this is true. It's pretty obvious.

3) The more away fans you allow in, the bigger the advantage you hand them before a ball is kicked. This is simply commonsense IMO.

4) When you hand way fans the stands behind BOTH goals you give their team an advantage so great that it almost guarantees defeat before a ball is kicked.

5) We are sending our own fans a very clear message that our top priority for OF matches is to make money. It's not about sport, fairness or anything else. It's a naked and tawdry grab for cash first, foremost and last. The consideration  of the team and the fans is very much relegated to second place.

6) Our team and our fanbase should not be feeling intimidated at every home OF match. This is our ground, not theirs to borrow and abuse.

I will admit that I did and continue to see why Gordon made this decision for financial reasons and when he announced it, I thought he had probably made the right decision but I have completely changed my mind on this. Money isn't everything. It certainly isn't buying us league success and it obviously isn't buying us happiness amongst the support.

I hope that when BtB is completed (with Baz hopefully nowhere near the board), we reduce the OF to one stand and no more, we budget accordingly, and put this nonsense to bed permanently.

Edited April 17, 2019 by oaksoft

[bazil85]

31 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

There average will be down double that plus next season if they maintain this as a permanent policy so it's nothing to do with increased revenue from rising average crowds. This is in direct response to the abuse directed toward SC by both OF supports this season.  It's a stance to be roundly applauded imo. More to life than money especially money tainted by sectarianism. FTOF and all that they stand for now and always. The day we as a support and club need to rely on their cash is the day we should all chuck it.

Not sure if you know how averages work but it won’t be down by that amount based on four games out of 18. They are in s position I hope we will be in before long where we can make these calls without losing a decent chunk of money. 

If it was just to do with bigot behaviour why now? It’s nothing new 

[kevo_smfc]

A pyro was let off in both ends behind the goals when Celtic scored their second goal, last time they visited. The more alarming of the two pyros, was the one in the official away end that landed yards away from Hladky.

Reducing allocation will not remove the sectarianism or objects like above coming through the turnstiles, though it will at least contain the problem to smaller numbers. 

We are not taking a hit on the full family stand, if we return it to our own fans for the games vs both teams, as it will at very least, be half full of our own supporters. 

[bazil85]

31 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

This obsession with OF money to the total exclusion of  all other considerations needs to stop.

1) We don't REALLY need the money. There are several clubs well above us in the league on substantially less than we bring in. Substantially less. Money isn't the problem here. How to spend it IS the issue and now we have Gus on board IMO we are spending that money much more effectively. That appointment was a masterstroke.

2) We piss off our own fans by moving them. There really should be no discussion required about whether this is true. It's pretty obvious.

3) The more away fans you allow in, the bigger the advantage you hand them before a ball is kicked. This is simply commonsense IMO.

4) When you hand way fans the stands behind BOTH goals you give their team an advantage so great that it almost guarantees defeat before a ball is kicked.

5) We are sending our own fans a very clear message that our top priority for OF matches is to make money. It's not about sport, fairness or anything else. It's a naked and tawdry grab for cash first, foremost and last. The consideration  of the team and the fans is very much relegated to second place.

6) Our team and our fanbase should not be feeling intimidated at every home OF match. This is our ground, not theirs to borrow and abuse.

I will admit that I did and continue to see why Gordon made this decision for financial reasons and when he announced it, I thought he had probably made the right decision but I have completely changed my mind on this. Money isn't everything. It certainly isn't buying us league success and it obviously isn't buying us happiness amongst the support.

I hope that when BtB is completed (with Baz hopefully nowhere near the board), we reduce the OF to one stand and no more, we budget accordingly, and put this nonsense to bed permanently.

I'd probably of let this one slide if not for your last wee sly dig. I will point out, you don't have to worry about me being anywhere near any board (some still seem to think I'm on a SMISA one now for some strange reason) but if  I was, I would have decisions like this made democratically by fans of the club  when btb completes 

1. I don't think I have seen a single claim from anyone that we 'need' the money. There is a fundamental difference between needing to explore new income streams and physically needing the money this provides. I don't take the argument that other teams on smaller budgets do better. Some do but some don't, teams over performing doesn't mean we can just ignore potential income. That is your opinion that we can though which is absolutely fine. 

2. Again I don't think I have seen anyone that's happy about the arrangement, that's not really the point being debated (I don't think anyway). I'm sure practically every SMFC fan would rather it wasn't in place, either completely or in my case because we were filling our own stands. I see it as a sort of necessary evil (although I'm sure that might be miss-leading  to some regarding .needed', to clarify I don't mean necessary as in if we don't have their money we die, I mean as in the necessity to explore and take advantage of as many income streams as possible, a collective if you like) 

3. Possibly but possibly not. We've had occasions under big opposing crowds where we have risen to the occasion, so have all teams 

4. We haven't been beaten in 1/3 of these games

5. Would you rather we lied to them? Is there any football fan in the modern world still under the illusion that the game is now all centred on money? I also think you ignore that a number of fans will accept this wee bit of pain in light of the bigger picture (the income). Personally I think the impact in these games where a few people have to sit on a different seat is massively exaggerated. 

6. Correct we shouldn't, they were a*se holes in the last game particularly. Hopefully one day soon our crowds reflect a good business reason to limit their seats. 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, just because smaller income teams are doing better than us this season, doesn;t mean they always will. Money doesn't guarantee success but it sure helps it along more often than not. 

[Bud the Baker]

26 minutes ago, kevo_smfc said:

A pyro was let off in both ends behind the goals when Celtic scored their second goal, last time they visited. The more alarming of the two pyros, was the one in the official away end that landed yards away from Hladky.

Reducing allocation will not remove the sectarianism or objects like above coming through the turnstiles, though it will at least contain the problem to smaller numbers. 

We are not taking a hit on the full family stand, if we return it to our own fans for the games vs both teams, as it will at very least, be half full of our own supporters. 

Thanks to @oaksoft for these figures

*********************

We have to go back to season 2011/12 to find a year where we played Celtic at home twice and Rangers once to allow a fair and direct comparison allowing an assessment of the impact of Gordon's change to move OF fans from W6/7 to the Family Stand.

Here are the attendances:-

Season 2011/12

Celtic (game 1) - 6223

Celtic (game 2) - 6129

Rangers (only game) - 6711

Season 2011/12 total - 19,063

 

Season 2018/19

Celtic (game 1) - 7288

Celtic (game 2) - 6597

Ranges (only game) - 6033

Season 2018/19 total - 19,918

 

Difference in attendance for the entire SEASON = 19,918-19,063 = 855

**********************

All this fuss for so little return! 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Bud the Baker

[bazil85]

46 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Thanks to @oaksoft for these figures

*********************

We have to go back to season 2011/12 to find a year where we played Celtic at home twice and Rangers once to allow a fair and direct comparison allowing an assessment of the impact of Gordon's change to move OF fans from W6/7 to the Family Stand.

Here are the attendances:-

Season 2011/12

Celtic (game 1) - 6223

Celtic (game 2) - 6129

Rangers (only game) - 6711

Season 2011/12 total - 19,063

 

Season 2018/19

Celtic (game 1) - 7288

Celtic (game 2) - 6597

Ranges (only game) - 6033

Season 2018/19 total - 19,918

 

Difference in attendance for the entire SEASON = 19,918-19,063 = 855

**********************

All this fuss for so little return! 

The comparison would need to be away fans only, I have pointed out why these figures are misleading. 855 is influenced by fluctuating home crowds NOT by the increased away attendances. If the claim that fans were staying away in numbers because of the decision was true, the home crowds would be very consistently down on other games, they are not. 

You only need to look at the difference in the Rangers crowds over the two comparisons to know there is mitigating circumstances. Why was one roughly 700 more than the other? A look at home fixtures around the 2018 Rangers game very quickly tells you why. Motherwell 4,001 Hearts 5,727 Hamilton 4,334. We were on a shocking run of form and fans were staying away of all games NOT JUST THE TWO STAND GAMES. Something that continued up until recently when we have seen more backing for the team in games like Dundee and away games like Hamilton. 

This is beyond simple, I don't believe for a second you or Oak don't understand it. 

[oaksoft]

4 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

The comparison would need to be away fans only, I have pointed out why these figures are misleading. 855 is influenced by fluctuating home crowds NOT by the increased away attendances.

Absolutely but you have just spent 20 pages+ arguing twith BuddieInEK and others that home crowds have been going up over the same period.

That is just one reason why nobody is listening to you.

All you need to do is show what adjustment needs to be made to those figures I produced to get a more accurate estimate of the increase due to this experiment of moving OF fans from W6 to the Family Stand. You don't just get to carte-blanche dismiss the figures out of hand and expect to be taken seriously.

Edited April 17, 2019 by oaksoft

[DumboBud]

Can someone remind me of the current argument being put forward by Baz is that black is white or is it that white is black?

[Ayrshire Saints]

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

Not sure if you know how averages work but it won’t be down by that amount based on four games out of 18. They are in s position I hope we will be in before long where we can make these calls without losing a decent chunk of money. 

If it was just to do with bigot behaviour why now? It’s nothing new 

4 games out of 18 with 4000 less fans equals 16000 roughly equating to just under 1000 per game off the top of my head. Almost double their current "increase" so yes I can work how averages are calculated. You are correct bigot behaviour is hundreds of years old but the manager of KFC wasn't personally abused until a few months ago and he was very public in it's condemnation. If you think all these things are not related and this is all linked to Killie's centenary then carry on but most of us can see the bigger picture.  You sound as if you are indeed "only here to see the Rangers" as they love to tell us !!!! 

[BuddieinEK]

Can someone remind me of the current argument being put forward by Baz is that black is white or is it that white is black?

Basically just another Bazterdised thread!
[emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji15]

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, DumboBud said:

Can someone remind me of the current argument being put forward by Baz is that black is white or is it that white is black?

He is doing both. He is also arguing the reverse of both depending on who he is actually talking to/at* (delete as applicable).

Honestly, I have completely lost track of what he was trying to achieve when he entered the debate. To me it was all very simple. Did the experiment of moving OF fans from W6 to Family stand work? And what do we do about it now?

Before long we were being bizarrely lectured on attendances from non-OF teams. Once we started seeing statistics thrown about for home games against St Johnstone (), I won't lie - I kind of lost the will to live.

[Bud the Baker]

19 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

He is doing both. He is also arguing the reverse of both depending on who he is actually talking to/at* (delete as applicable).

Honestly, I have completely lost track of what he was trying to achieve when he entered the debate. To me it was all very simple. Did the experiment of moving OF fans from W6 to Family stand work? And what do we do about it now?

Before long we were being bizarrely lectured on attendances from non-OF teams. Once we started seeing statistics thrown about for home games against St Johnstone (), I won't lie - I kind of lost the will to live.

Have some pity, you know he has to respond to each and every post about him!

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

2 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

4 games out of 18 with 4000 less fans equals 16000 roughly equating to just under 1000 per game off the top of my head. Almost double their current "increase" so yes I can work how averages are calculated. You are correct bigot behaviour is hundreds of years old but the manager of KFC wasn't personally abused until a few months ago and he was very public in it's condemnation. If you think all these things are not related and this is all linked to Killie's centenary then carry on but most of us can see the bigger picture.  You sound as if you are indeed "only here to see the Rangers" as they love to tell us !!!! 

What!!!!!!

They’ve started abusing the Colonel as well now!!

These bastards will stop at nothing!

[Sweeper07]

Let's just keep improving our team and results, and move up into the top 4  - 6.  Get into Europe quite often, win cups and grow the fan base in Paisley.

That way we can give minimal seating to opposition fans - and certainly not behind either set of goals. Then if we don't have enough space for our fans we can fill in some corners or add on a higher tier or two.    

I wish we were focussing on how much we have been improving and speculating on what new gems Gus and Oran might be bringing in next - instead of arguing about seating and the ugly mob . . .    Roll on Saturday and may our players rise to the occasion, and step closer to Premiership football guaranteed for next season.