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If we stay up... Give us the family stand back.


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11 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

No surprise.
Yet again...
NO effort to increase home support.
NO attempt to generate the cash in other ways.
NO incentive to increase season ticket sales.

Just the status quo that was always going to be the case as it was the easiest option.

Beautifully spun tho!

Was it aye? :lol:

Edited by bazil85
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10 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

So what does 10% of the playing budget work out as then? Anyone have an idea?

Wages and salaries 

2018 - £1,913,176

43 players, 34 management and admin

Call it £1,000,000 on players so perhaps £100,000 ?

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It’s irritating, but it makes sense financially. If we can’t even fill two stands and the away support fills their own end, then it would be silly to turn down the cash. If more of our town supported the local side and weren’t gloryhunting fuds, we wouldn’t have this problem.

That being said, I’d quite happily ban Celtic and Sevco 2012 fans from entering our stadium, in a stand against their bigotry, violence and vandalism.

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Disappointing, but not unexpected shorttermism. With the same old inflated figures being peddled. 

The first game was nearly a sell out apparently, so does that mean crowds for the OF games are already on a downward trajectory with this ‘initiative’.........?

here comes another few pages of nonsense from our resident Board apologist. 

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2 hours ago, Doakes said:

Wages and salaries 

2018 - £1,913,176

43 players, 34 management and admin

Call it £1,000,000 on players so perhaps £100,000 ?

I think you can assume that this year's player's budget will be considerably larger, given the number of players we've signed and got rid of.

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2 hours ago, Doakes said:

Wages and salaries 

2018 - £1,913,176

43 players, 34 management and admin

Call it £1,000,000 on players so perhaps £100,000 ?

In which case I absolutely don't believe the figure of 10% Gordon has quoted.

It certainly cannot be a net figure he is talking about.

Even Baz isn't trying to claim we've netted £100k which can be used directly on players.

Something is not right here and I feel we are being seriously misled.

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2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

This won't be exact because one figure is obviously at a point of time and this is our current squad but the average first team players wage released early in the season was £46,169 and we currently have a 24 player squad right now. 

Total budget £1,108,056

10% £110,805.

I imagine much like me he's comparing the extra income from one stand to two stands, as he makes it very clear he wanted to continue West for saints fans this season meaning the last arrangement was irrelevant.  

We are being spun and TBH it's f**king infuriating.

And BTW, if he is using your method of comparing one stand against two, that is an unforgiveable breach of trust between him and the fans.

Edited by oaksoft
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1 hour ago, DumboBud said:

Disappointing, but not unexpected shorttermism. With the same old inflated figures being peddled. 

The first game was nearly a sell out apparently, so does that mean crowds for the OF games are already on a downward trajectory with this ‘initiative’.........?

here comes another few pages of nonsense from our resident Board apologist. 

There's a few signs in Gordon's statement which should alert us to the fact that we are being bullshitted.

Firstly, he mentions the extra income as a percentage of player wages knowing that the number 10 sounds like a big number and that we can't directly check how much that is because none of us know the playing budget. He could easily copme right out and say we made this amount extra after tax compared with when we were putting them in W6 and this is the extra amount for players. You have to ask yourself why he wouldn't simply do that.

Secondly, he is talking about the first OF game only. The second and third were well below sellouts.

Thirdly, he doesn't talk about whether his figure is gross or net of tax.

I have spent most of my career in industry dealing with people who talk like this and it is always frustrating.

He is covering his arse for some reason. Just f**king spit it out man!

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7 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

There's a few signs in Gordon's statement which should alert us to the fact that we are being bullshitted.

Firstly, he mentions the extra income as a percentage of player wages knowing that the number 10 sounds like a big number and that we can't directly check how much that is because none of us know the playing budget. He could easily copme right out and say we made this amount extra after tax compared with when we were putting them in W6 and this is the extra amount for players. You have to ask yourself why he wouldn't simply do that.

Secondly, he is talking about the first OF game only. The second and third were well below sellouts.

Thirdly, he doesn't talk about whether his figure is gross or net of tax.

I have spent most of my career in industry dealing with people who talk like this and it is always frustrating.

He is covering his arse for some reason. Just f**king spit it out man!

You'll be needing some of saintinthenextlifetime's tinfoil. :lol:

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No idea whether Gordon reads this forum or not but as regards the extra OF income, there is only one way he can satisfactorily answer this question and it is directly as follows:-

Tell us how much, NET of all taxes, all expenses, and all reduction in Season tickets sales because of discounts and a lack of take up of West stand seats, in pound sterling, did the club gain as a result of moving the OF fans from W6 to the Family Stand in total over the 3 OF games this season?

This is a matter of trust. We are all adults here. It's fans who are having to make sacrifices here. Just tell us what we have gained financially from it and leave us to discuss whether we think it is worth it. I don't intend to go all LPM on this issue but I would like to feel fans are being treated with some respect over the numbers.

Right now, the way it  has presented feels like we are being fed bullshit. The only reason to ever engage in this sort of activity is to cover up the fact that it brought less money than he thought and that he is afraid of being seen to have made a mistake. Right now that it where my suspicion lies.

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11 minutes ago, Doakes said:

Oaksoft is trying VERY hard to prove he isn’t Gordon.. :ph34r::lol:

In fairness, 10% sounds a lot, assuming the figure is between £100k and £110k

Haha bet me to it!! 😂

We did ask Gordon if he was on this because we where certain at the time he was. Tbf though I don’t think so as much now

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Just now, mattman said:

Haha bet me to it!! 😂

We did ask Gordon if he was on this because we where certain at the time he was. Tbf though I don’t think so as much now

Gordon did look away when he said he wasn’t tbf :lol: the jury is out 

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3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

In which case I absolutely don't believe the figure of 10% Gordon has quoted.

It certainly cannot be a net figure he is talking about.

Even Baz isn't trying to claim we've netted £100k which can be used directly on players.

Something is not right here and I feel we are being seriously misled.

The player budget is not only wages - Employer NI at 13.8%, Pension contributions and various other things come into play... so with our current wage bill will be bigger than the £1.9 Million. If it is 10% it is very significant to us  - and if it is not Gordon will be caught out at some point. 

I find it funny when people don't believe figures or quote figures without any actual true knowledge (just like I have)   - I am not saying everyone who is quoting figures doesn't know - but I suspect most are guessing without much to back it up....

More importantly 3 points to win tomorrow...

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2 hours ago, Doakes said:

Oaksoft is trying VERY hard to prove he isn’t Gordon.. :ph34r::lol:

In fairness, 10% sounds a lot, assuming the figure is between £100k and £110k

 

2 hours ago, mattman said:

Oaksoft 👀😂😂

 

Soooo tempted to play along with this TBF. 🤣

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27 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said:

The player budget is not only wages - Employer NI at 13.8%, Pension contributions and various other things come into play... so with our current wage bill will be bigger than the £1.9 Million. If it is 10% it is very significant to us  - and if it is not Gordon will be caught out at some point. 

I find it funny when people don't believe figures or quote figures without any actual true knowledge (just like I have)   - I am not saying everyone who is quoting figures doesn't know - but I suspect most are guessing without much to back it up....

That will only happen if people are prepared to query things they hear.

Not enough people seem to care about it. Which is fair enough.

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45 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

That will only happen if people are prepared to query things they hear.

Not enough people seem to care about it. Which is fair enough.

It is not about the quantity of people who care - but about who it is and how much they can do about it that counts. How important is it on a scale etc.?

I don't know Gordon very well, so I cannot speak about his character. But if he is lying, there will be some who will use it in future - that is human nature...

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

That will only happen if people are prepared to query things they hear.

Not enough people seem to care about it. Which is fair enough.

Gordon said it so it must be true........ let me now try and scuttle about to get some figures to try and make this fit and call it evidence..... 

can anyone guess what poster I’m trying to be?

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I don't have a problem with Gordon's statement, i don't know if he figures are accurate either BUT his statement changes absolutely nothing, I don't like his short term outlook towards our supporters and it could backfire in regards to the future fans being attracted to watch St Mirren... we're a family club unless the big Glasgow clubs come with their money and we'll just turn a blind eye to the sectarian chants and flares being thrown onto the pitch because we love their money:thumbsdown

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The last time we were in the top flight the total wages bill (including pension contributions) was over £2Million (see P12 of the 2015 Accounts pdf) - not all of this will have been player budget and we won't know exactly how much we spent this season until the 2019 figures are published in December but I'm in the crew who find GLSs 10% claim unconvincing. 

https://www.blackandwhitearmy.com/downloads/accounts-may2015.pdf

Edited by Bud the Baker
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