Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
proudtobeabuddy

If we stay up... Give us the family stand back.

Recommended Posts

Does it happen in your street? Do ordinary people going about there daily lives in your street behave like that? Or is it bigots at football matches, and bigoted gatherings who do it?
made yourself look a right pap there, if you dont mind me saying. You really need to up your game in the trolling dept!
There you go asking questions but don't/can't answer them yourself.

Has it happened, yes.

If you're referring to ordinary people as non bigoted people then no, if you're referring a bigot as a ordinary person then yes they have.

Bigots do it all the time.

Sorry if those answers weren't what you were looking for but they are true unfortunately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If, as you say sectarianism is purely a problem of society, then why isnt my neighbour calling me a ********/orange bastard over the garden fence? Why arent people calling each other it in the streets, shops, cinema, rugby, hockey, women's football etc?
you are, as our chairman is, complicit in refusing to recognise this is a problem with the supporters of two football clubs, and no one else.
and if as you say it is a commercial decision. Please explain how you come to that conclusion when over 1000 home fans who were in the ground a few days before the Celtic game, stayed away when sectarianism, and terrorism (explosives) came calling?
less and less families and children are now buying season tickets because they feel the club simply see them as an inconvenience in facilitating bigotry, hatred and violence for a few bob.
How do you square that, and the fact it will terminally damage the numbers of our support going forward as a 'Sound Commercial Decision'?
At the Celtic game our keeper came close to being seriously injured by an explosive thrown at him. But to our chairman thats just the price of getting a few extra quid in the biscuit tin.
If thats his attitude why should we bother attending any games? Why not give the majority of the ground to every large visiting support if its just about money? Our club is actively discouraging the very life blood it needs to sustain it from attending, is tha a 'Sound Commercial Decision' or perhaps the actions of a board who have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds with their poor decision making.
cant wait to see the HUGE impact these 'Sound Commercial Decisions' have had when the next set of accounts come out!
That is the finest post I have ever read on this forum!

I don't care who posted it or what folks think of him... It is spot on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

There you go asking questions but don't/can't answer them yourself.

Has it happened, yes.

If you're referring to ordinary people as non bigoted people then no, if you're referring a bigot as a ordinary person then yes they have.

Bigots do it all the time.

Sorry if those answers weren't what you were looking for but they are true unfortunately.
 

Does it happen in your street?

are you and the neighbours exchanging sectarian chants on a regular basis?

sorry that you found the need to highlight your 'Pap-ishness', rather than just letting it slide. But hey if you keep waitin i am sure there'll be something else to become offended at to drop by soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BuddieinEK said:

That is the finest post I have ever read on this forum!

I don't care who posted it or what folks think of him... It is spot on.

Folks generally don't like hearing what they know, but are in denial about. So if I can shine a light on something, but dont always get it 100% to everyone's satisfaction then I will shine on!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Kemp said:

LPM is right though, on a day to day basis it is not something you are really exposed to or aware of.

It depends on whom you interact with on a daily basis.

Plenty of people are aware of sectarianism on a regular basis.

A couple of years ago my mate was forced to leave his work place due to sustained sectarian abuse from several of his superiors. He got an out of court settlement from his employers.

In my previous work place I was subjected to mild, but almost weekly, jibes regarding me being a "DOB" simply because I didn't support the green bigots. It was done in jest, and I just got on with it, but it was a form of sectarian abuse all the same.

It might not be as overt as it was 15-20 years ago, but sectarianism is alive and kicking, as most people will witness over the next couple of months, if they have the misfortune to encounter any of the filthy bigots that exert their right to march and peddle their hatred and intolerance against another religion. I wonder if any priests will be spat upon this year.

I also had good laugh at the f**kwitted assertion that because you don't get sectarian abuse from your neighbour, that it doesn't exist at all in society.

Anyway, I think DLBud's excellent post makes a lot of sense.:)

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites




 
His statement should put an end to this but sadly it won’t.
 
 


Why?

On a discussion forum, why should one person's words matter more than anothers?

I like and respect GLS... But several months ago, I could have written that beautifully worded statement designed to get most non South Stand fans fully behind him.

I DO query the 10% figure... What is included? What is excluded?

It's convenient.

Phone him with suggestions?
The decision was already made... Keep the W6/W7 team sweet and bend over for the OF... The easy and obvious decision every day of the week.

There are other options. They have never been discussed in public and I seriously doubt they have been considered.

There WILL be a cost to this decision. Might not be immediate. Might not be obvious. But there WILL be a cost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

That is the finest post I have ever read on this forum!

I don't care who posted it or what folks think of him... It is spot on.

It's as fuckwitted as his usual pish.

Have you been drinking heavily?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, FTOF said:

It depends on whom you interact with on a daily basis.

Plenty of people are aware of sectarianism on a regular basis.

A couple of years ago my mate was forced to leave his work place due to sustained sectarian abuse from several of his superiors. He got an out of court settlement from his employers.

In my previous work place I was subjected to mild, but almost weekly, jibes regarding me being a "DOB" simply because I didn't support the green bigots. It was done in jest, and I just got on with it, but it was a form of sectarian abuse all the same.

It might not be as overt as it was 15-20 years ago, but sectarianism is alive and kicking, as most people will witness over the next couple of months, if they have the misfortune to encounter any of the filthy bigots that exert their right to march and peddle their hatred and intolerance against another religion. I wonder if any priests will be spat upon this year.

I also had good laugh at the f**kwitted assertion that because you don't get sectarian abuse from your neighbour, that it doesn't exist at all in society.

Anyway, I think DLBud's excellent post makes a lot of sense.:)

 

 

 

Fair enough, individual perceptions of it will vary depending on experience. I just don't see many people in Scotland who particularly care one way or another about it, but then I thankfully manage to avoid associating with knuckledraggers and don't have them in my work environment. My perception of it might be wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
LPM is right though, on a day to day basis it is not something you are really exposed to or aware of. Racism and Xenophobia are much bigger problems in Scotland, and you get plenty of cunts happy to mouth off with their opinions on the matter.
The whole "religious" shite is just a few flag-waving clowns that don't have anything better to do with their lives. Sadly Old Firm games and marching season whip these people in to a frenzy and tun them in to quite dangerous mobs.
This is from a 4 years ago.


https://www.gov.scot/publications/examination-evidence-sectarianism-scotland-2015-update/pages/4/

Most charges took place in the west of Scotland, (35% in Glasgow) and the most frequent places where charges took place included police cars/stations, town/city main streets, and residential areas. Only 16% of charges related directly to football. Religious aggravations were most commonly added to 'threatening and abusive behaviour' charges (this was the main charge for 71% of aggravations) and 12% of aggravations involved a charge of breach of the peace. Only 6% of aggravations involved an assault charge. The vast majority of the behaviour that involved a religious aggravation may therefore be better categorised as 'anti-social', rather than violent. Of the accused, 90% were male and 47% were aged between 16 and 30. Alcohol was a factor in the offending, and 59% of all charges with a religious aggravation were reported as being alcohol-related.
As already mentioned, crimes aggravated by 'sectarian' prejudice may be reported to COPFS as racial aggravations rather than religious aggravations. To explore whether there has been any increase in incidents directed towards Irish victims, data on racist incidents were examined. Figures on the number of racist incidents recorded by the police are published annually by the Scottish Government and contain some information about the ethnicity of the victim[21]. Racist incidents are defined as "any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person". (It should be noted at that not all of these incidents will result in a charge.) The most recent figures are for 2012-13. Over 5,000 racist incidents were recorded - 10% higher than in recorded in 2010-11. One percent (75 of 5132 incidents) of the victims of racist incidents recorded by the police were defined as 'White Irish'. This proportion has remained fairly stable since 2006-07.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Kemp said:

Fair enough, individual perceptions of it will vary depending on experience. I just don't see many people in Scotland who particularly care one way or another about it, but then I thankfully manage to avoid associating with knuckledraggers and don't have them in my work environment. My perception of it might be wrong.

Except for the vast majority of bigot brother fans, of which there are thousands in this country.

Don't assume that people that people who engage in sectarian abuse fit the archetypal "knuckledragger" image. Highly educated individuals are quite capable of this type of behaviour too, although, probably not as overtly as your typical march participant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, FTOF said:

It depends on whom you interact with on a daily basis.

Plenty of people are aware of sectarianism on a regular basis.

A couple of years ago my mate was forced to leave his work place due to sustained sectarian abuse from several of his superiors. He got an out of court settlement from his employers.

In my previous work place I was subjected to mild, but almost weekly, jibes regarding me being a "DOB" simply because I didn't support the green bigots. It was done in jest, and I just got on with it, but it was a form of sectarian abuse all the same.

It might not be as overt as it was 15-20 years ago, but sectarianism is alive and kicking, as most people will witness over the next couple of months, if they have the misfortune to encounter any of the filthy bigots that exert their right to march and peddle their hatred and intolerance against another religion. I wonder if any priests will be spat upon this year.

I also had good laugh at the f**kwitted assertion that because you don't get sectarian abuse from your neighbour, that it doesn't exist at all in society.

Anyway, I think DLBud's excellent post makes a lot of sense.:)

 

 

 

Thanks for backing up my post by sharing your own experiences of suffering bigotry by followers of one of two football clubs.

but to put it in the contect DL did, and that I am on about. Our club are facilitating it for money, when they dont need to, when it will terminally damage the future support, and when most saints fans dont agree with it.

Forget society and what you can or cant do to affect that, lets just concentrate on the simple, no-brainer quick wins by doing what the chairman said he would do!

involve, consult and be guided by the very people without whom the company SMFC ltd would not exist. Instead of facilitating bigots for bucks!

i know why they are doing it, like the last board they are extremely lazy, and incompetent in generating additional revenue, and have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds. They are skint, and the next accounts will lay them bare. The last board did it to pay off the costs of building the 1877 club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

This is from a 4 years ago.


https://www.gov.scot/publications/examination-evidence-sectarianism-scotland-2015-update/pages/4/

Most charges took place in the west of Scotland, (35% in Glasgow) and the most frequent places where charges took place included police cars/stations, town/city main streets, and residential areas. Only 16% of charges related directly to football. Religious aggravations were most commonly added to 'threatening and abusive behaviour' charges (this was the main charge for 71% of aggravations) and 12% of aggravations involved a charge of breach of the peace. Only 6% of aggravations involved an assault charge. The vast majority of the behaviour that involved a religious aggravation may therefore be better categorised as 'anti-social', rather than violent. Of the accused, 90% were male and 47% were aged between 16 and 30. Alcohol was a factor in the offending, and 59% of all charges with a religious aggravation were reported as being alcohol-related.
As already mentioned, crimes aggravated by 'sectarian' prejudice may be reported to COPFS as racial aggravations rather than religious aggravations. To explore whether there has been any increase in incidents directed towards Irish victims, data on racist incidents were examined. Figures on the number of racist incidents recorded by the police are published annually by the Scottish Government and contain some information about the ethnicity of the victim[21]. Racist incidents are defined as "any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person". (It should be noted at that not all of these incidents will result in a charge.) The most recent figures are for 2012-13. Over 5,000 racist incidents were recorded - 10% higher than in recorded in 2010-11. One percent (75 of 5132 incidents) of the victims of racist incidents recorded by the police were defined as 'White Irish'. This proportion has remained fairly stable since 2006-07.

At last!

A claim about figures on this thread that is actually backed up with some reliable evidence!:rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites



Does it happen in your street?





Has it happened, yes.




Does it happen in your street?
are you and the neighbours exchanging sectarian chants on a regular basis?
sorry that you found the need to highlight your 'Pap-ishness', rather than just letting it slide. But hey if you keep waitin i am sure there'll be something else to become offended at to drop by soon.


I apologise, do you want me to write slowly for you to understand?

It has happened, I don't know if it will happen again, I'm not a mind reader.

Oops that was wrong, cause I just read the mind of loads of folk reading this and there thinking you're a fool etc etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why?

 

On a discussion forum, why should one person's words matter more than anothers?

 

I didn’t say anyone’s words mattered more than anyone else but the decision has been made by the BOD, explained by the BOD and confirmed that it will continue by the BOD.

 

I feel that should probably draw a line under it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If, as you say sectarianism is purely a problem of society, then why isnt my neighbour calling me a ********/orange bastard over the garden fence? Why arent people calling each other it in the streets, shops, cinema, rugby, hockey, women's football etc?

you are, as our chairman is, complicit in refusing to recognise this is a problem with the supporters of two football clubs, and no one else.

and if as you say it is a commercial decision. Please explain how you come to that conclusion when over 1000 home fans who were in the ground a few days before the Celtic game, stayed away when sectarianism, and terrorism (explosives) came calling?

less and less families and children are now buying season tickets because they feel the club simply see them as an inconvenience in facilitating bigotry, hatred and violence for a few bob.

How do you square that, and the fact it will terminally damage the numbers of our support going forward as a 'Sound Commercial Decision'?

At the Celtic game our keeper came close to being seriously injured by an explosive thrown at him. But to our chairman thats just the price of getting a few extra quid in the biscuit tin.

If thats his attitude why should we bother attending any games? Why not give the majority of the ground to every large visiting support if its just about money? Our club is actively discouraging the very life blood it needs to sustain it from attending, is tha a 'Sound Commercial Decision' or perhaps the actions of a board who have wasted hundreds of thousands of pounds with their poor decision making.

cant wait to see the HUGE impact these 'Sound Commercial Decisions' have had when the next set of accounts come out!

 

I didn’t say sectarianism was “purely a problem of society”, therefore I’m not complicit in refusing to recognise it as a problem of the supporters at two clubs only. I have Celtic supporting colleagues at work who attest to being regularly abused at Tynecastle, Rugby Park and Dens to name a few grounds with some fans who align themselves with one side of the religious divide.

 

The drop of 1,000 home fans has been explained on here a number of times and cannot simply be laid at the door of who we were playing irrespective of how desperate you are for that to support your argument. (Midweek game, live tv, not expected to win etc.)

 

“Terrorism comes calling?” See my above comment re hyperbole. Give it a rest.

 

I’ve been watching my team play Celtic for over 40 years and over that time we’ve regularly given them the majority of our stadium and it’s not “terminally damaged” our home support.

 

I’m sure you’ll wait eagerly for the accounts to be released so you can twist them to whatever anti-board rant you’ll be on at the time but irrespective of how much you stamp your wee feet this one isn’t changing. I’d rather not have them at both ends but the best way to do that is to sell more tickets and it always has been.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, DLBud said:

If people think he’s lying about the commercial benefit then I ask you “to what end”? Why bring this grief from a section of fans if what irks them isn’t helping our club?

To cover up the fact that it earns less than he initially claimed and that he doesn't want to go back to the previous setup.

People do this all the time to defend their position. There's no great surprise here.

Gordon values money over anything else when it comes to Saints. He'll give other clubs a second full stand and he'll allow them to place their badge on our stadium. Whatever makes money. Regardless of the embarassment it causes our support. That's absolutely his prerogative.

Plenty of us run our own businesses. We are neither living in cloud cuckoo land where no adversity occurs, lying about anything nor ignorant of the financial benefits of doing certain things. I could easily hike my prices or cut the quality of what I offer and I can be pretty sure it will bring in more money. If it pisses off large numbers of my customers though, I might consider it a stupid thing to do in the long term.

Running a business is not just about short termism. It's about long term decision making too. Sometimes that means reducing profits in the short term to make sure I still have a business in 10 years time.

Business is about treating customer satisfaction and profit as two equal weights. That is particularly true when your company's success relies on repeat business from the same core customer base. I can't stress that last bit enough.

Those companies who forget that usually end up bust and if you have the time I could fill 30 pages with the names of major companies who are no longer with us.

Edited by oaksoft

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, oaksoft said:

To cover up the fact that it earns less than he initially claimed and that he doesn't want to go back to the previous setup.

People do this all the time to defend their position. There's no great surprise here.

Gordon values money over anything else when it comes to Saints. He'll give other clubs a second full stand and he'll allow them to place their badge on our stadium. Whatever makes money. Regardless of the embarassment it causes our support. That's absolutely his prerogative.

Plenty of us run our own businesses. We are neither living in cloud cuckoo land where no adversity occurs, lying about anything nor ignorant of the financial benefits of doing certain things. I could easily hike my prices or cut the quality of what I offer and I can be pretty sure it will bring in more money. If it pisses off large numbers of my customers though, I might consider it a stupid thing to do in the long term.

Running a business is not just about short termism. It's about long term decision making too. Sometimes that means reducing profits in the short term to make sure I still have a business in 10 years time.

Business is about treating customer satisfaction and profit as two equal weights. That is particularly true when your company's success relies on repeat business from the same core customer base. I can't stress that last bit enough.

Those companies who forget that usually end up bust and if you have the time I could fill 30 pages with the names of major companies who are no longer with us.

Was it not the old board that allowed Celtic to use our ground rather than Gordon?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can understand the reasoning in terms of gaining extra income, though what frustrates me is that we are a family/community club and closing our family stand to home supporters for these games are almost alienating the fans of our future. These are the type of games our young fans would like to witness us compete in.

Segregation is restricted at our stadium and I can totally understand that choices are limited of where to house an overspill due to the west stand fully allocated to our fans throughout the season.

You then look at the flip side of it. To try and drum more young fans down to a match day we are in a position where we can offer 2 adults 20 kids tickets for selected games like St Johnstone on Saturday there, due to the amount of available seats in the family stand. If we can get more initiatives like this in place to attract new fans then great, it will help fill that family stand with paying customers, though it won't be an overnight process to see results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/26/2019 at 6:06 PM, oaksoft said:

We are being spun and TBH it's f**king infuriating.

And BTW, if he is using your method of comparing one stand against two, that is an unforgiveable breach of trust between him and the fans.

Don't see how we are getting spun at all, it's a perfectly reasonable and detailed update. One stand vs two is perfectly fine as I have said all along. All other teams get one stand, they get two, here's the comparison, there is no issue at all. He even says why he wanted to keep West for SMFC fans which backs up my point, it was never going to be an option. 

You don't like it, that is fine but it isn't a breach of trust, just sounds like you're a bit bitter tbh. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/26/2019 at 5:48 PM, Lord Pityme said:

If we are in the prem next season this shocking decision will see further drops in the home fans attendance. Remember in the course of a few days between the dundee and celtic game 1000 fans voted with their feet.

family club my arse!

sectarian mirren football club.

Further? 

Remember how less fans go to mid-week games than to crucial fixtures? I have shown you plenty of examples that highlight the drop in fans was not all to do with the decision. You pushing this false point won't change the facts. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/26/2019 at 6:21 PM, oaksoft said:

No idea whether Gordon reads this forum or not but as regards the extra OF income, there is only one way he can satisfactorily answer this question and it is directly as follows:-

Tell us how much, NET of all taxes, all expenses, and all reduction in Season tickets sales because of discounts and a lack of take up of West stand seats, in pound sterling, did the club gain as a result of moving the OF fans from W6 to the Family Stand in total over the 3 OF games this season?

This is a matter of trust. We are all adults here. It's fans who are having to make sacrifices here. Just tell us what we have gained financially from it and leave us to discuss whether we think it is worth it. I don't intend to go all LPM on this issue but I would like to feel fans are being treated with some respect over the numbers.

Right now, the way it  has presented feels like we are being fed bullshit. The only reason to ever engage in this sort of activity is to cover up the fact that it brought less money than he thought and that he is afraid of being seen to have made a mistake. Right now that it where my suspicion lies.

Translation - 'I think GLS is lying with zero facts or evidence to back it up.' Mind Oak was having a go at me for not letting this thread die? :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/26/2019 at 11:31 PM, DumboBud said:

Gordon said it so it must be true........ let me now try and scuttle about to get some figures to try and make this fit and call it evidence..... 

can anyone guess what poster I’m trying to be?

A SMFC fan trusting the people in charge of the club and providing figures that back-up what they say? Burn the witch!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

I dont know how well it came across on TV, but anyone who was there last night cant have failed to be impressed and inspired to see so many groups of youth/kids teams sitting in the family stand. Getting excited, shouting, singing and celebrating!

surely we, as the support need to lobby the board and say.. "that crowd, that atmosphere last night, with so many young people made welcome and involved.... thats the future of SMFC..! Our Town, Our Team and Our People. Stage that for every home game."

that stand, and the area behind it should be sacrosanct as a fun, involved and safe place for all the youth, youngsters and families to attend EVERY game. Do that ticket deal for every game. We as the support do not care if you make another £30k selling the seats to sectarian, bigoted, violent thugs! We want what we had last night, and at the Dundee and Livi games every time.

The club has to commit to building the support, and that cant be an on/off commitment depending on which racist support is in town. "Build it... and like last night.. They Will Come... in spades"

You don’t speak for all the supporters here, I’ll also assume you are referencing roughly your thoughts on how much we make per game which is a reason why you don’t speak for all supporters. 

There is however almost profoundness in your post. If we as a club do that every game and come that close to a sellout, the club will have no real option but to stop giving the bigots two stands. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...