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proudtobeabuddy

If we stay up... Give us the family stand back.

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- backing up a club decision & appreciating the financial benefit  isn’t the same as liking the situation, it also isn’t a bad thing. 
- Killie doing good positive things doesn’t need to be an opportunity for the usual suspects to take the same tired pot shots at our BOD
- our club did not stick 2 fingers up to anyone, any st Mirren fans wanting to attend these games can 
- LPM is culprit one in lambasting GLS at every opportunity. even apparently regarding completely unrelated stories. See point one. 
- Kilmarnock do something good = lets rehash a point that’s been done to absolute death with zero new points or purpose (the decision won’t change) so no I can’t see the relevance in the way he’s quoted this story. 
- Killies stadium allows them a lot more freedom to do activity like this. Take your blindfold off to the constraints of an 8,000 seat stadium & the importance of finance in football. 
You could have saved a lot of time by simply saying Yes!

You are a club apologist with a default setting of criticising anyone who dares step out of line.

Whatever floats your boat.

Personally, I think he made a very good point.

I suppose Killie taking a stand against your beloved teams won't go down well with you.

Hurting?

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1 hour ago, BuddieinEK said:

You could have saved a lot of time by simply saying Yes!

You are a club apologist with a default setting of criticising anyone who dares step out of line.

Whatever floats your boat.

Personally, I think he made a very good point.

I suppose Killie taking a stand against your beloved teams won't go down well with you.

Hurting?
emoji23.pngemoji14.png

Nonsense, I’m happy to criticise when it’s justified (perfectly justified to be unhappy at the decision by the way). People rehashing the same point then making out it’s a bad thing for defending the club we all ‘support’ is ridiculous. 

Still standing by the I support Rangers point eh? Then no doubt you’ll deflect, lie & spin to say that’s not what you mean. Your go to. 

Disappointed that one of our own (apparently) would stoop to the level of the bigot fans & assume fans of ‘wee teams’ must favour one of these clubs. Which one do you favour by the way if that’s your view? 

Also very curious on one hand you’ll criticise me for defending the club when others don’t then on the other say I support someone else. I suppose common sense & irony have never been your strong points. :rolleyes:

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This topic i never going away as soon as we play one of them it will be brought up again because it's not right and no amount of denial from anyone is going is change that. We're taking our family stand from our own fans and giving it to the 2 most bigoted team in Scotland, right away that should be enough of a reason not to give them it. seemingly we prefer their money to our fans coming first...this is fact.

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3 hours ago, bazil85 said:

 

- Kilmarnock do something good = lets rehash a point that’s been done to absolute death with zero new points or purpose (the decision won’t change) so no I can’t see the relevance in the way he’s quoted this  

Ah the tangled web we weave....... it isn’t that long ago that one of the central planks of the argument was that the decision would be reversed........

guess it must be difficult to remember what to argue consistently when the default position is that the Board are right.  

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This topic i never going away as soon as we play one of them it will be brought up again because it's not right and no amount of denial from anyone is going is change that. We're taking our family stand from our own fans and giving it to the 2 most bigoted team in Scotland, right away that should be enough of a reason not to give them it. seemingly we prefer their money to our fans coming first...this is fact.

When we manage to sell out the home stand and west stand for an old firm game then you may have a point but until Then the board have made the completely correct decision as many saint fans prefer to watch the game on tv rather than go to games that involve the old firm.

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1 hour ago, DumboBud said:

Ah the tangled web we weave....... it isn’t that long ago that one of the central planks of the argument was that the decision would be reversed........

guess it must be difficult to remember what to argue consistently when the default position is that the Board are right.  

Theres nothing to suggest that still isn’t the situation if the crowd goes up significantly like he put in the statement. Some fans want to think he has backtracked on his word, when there is nothing that says he has. 

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1 hour ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

This topic i never going away as soon as we play one of them it will be brought up again because it's not right and no amount of denial from anyone is going is change that. We're taking our family stand from our own fans and giving it to the 2 most bigoted team in Scotland, right away that should be enough of a reason not to give them it. seemingly we prefer their money to our fans coming first...this is fact.

Matter of opinion remember, some fans see the benefit in it regarding the income. Fans can moan all they like but it ain’t changing until we fill those seats or change the stance in a few years when we’re fan owned. 

Remember though any st Mirren fan wanting to attend these games still can, it doesn’t put anyone out bar a different view and maybe a few sweary words. 

15 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Control the controllables.

Let it go personally and forget about others.

Na, if too many people had that attitude this website would die a death. 

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5 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Matter of opinion remember, some fans see the benefit in it regarding the income. Fans can moan all they like but it ain’t changing until we fill those seats or change the stance in a few years when we’re fan owned. 

Remember though any st Mirren fan wanting to attend these games still can, it doesn’t put anyone out bar a different view and maybe a few sweary words. 

Na, if too many people had that attitude this website would die a death. 

I'd question the intelligence of anyone who didn't see the financial gain, my point is and always has been, put our own fans first before profit.... those same fans that the BOD seem to praise consistently but draw the line when asked to give the family stand back for the OF games.

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47 minutes ago, buddies1877 said:

When we manage to sell out the home stand and west stand for an old firm game then you may have a point but until Then the board have made the completely correct decision as many saint fans prefer to watch the game on tv rather than go to games that involve the old firm.

So if we don't we continue to be  surrounded by them thus handing them an extra advantage... Remember, the BOD and our manager have repeatedly indicated the importance of the fans this season....apart from the OF games it seems...

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So if we don't we continue to be  surrounded by them thus handing them an extra advantage... Remember, the BOD and our manager have repeatedly indicated the importance of the fans this season....apart from the OF games it seems...

So we should hand our closest rivals an advantage instead then as they make there budget larger by doing the same.


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58 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Theres nothing to suggest that still isn’t the situation if the crowd goes up significantly like he put in the statement. Some fans want to think he has backtracked on his word, when there is nothing that says he has. 

When the season ticket statement gives no mention of a target to be met to get the decision reversed (unlike before with the target for W7) and the boards mouthpiece confirms that it won’t change then it is safe to say the decision won’t be altered no matter how wrong it is. 

It is done, we move forward but not as well as we would have moved forward by being an inclusive family friendly anti bigot club. 

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10 hours ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

I'd question the intelligence of anyone who didn't see the financial gain, my point is and always has been, put our own fans first before profit.... those same fans that the BOD seem to praise consistently but draw the line when asked to give the family stand back for the OF games.

And that’s exactly where it’s matter of opinion. For example me, I see this decision as putting the fans first. The money gives us the best chance of performing at the highest level & I feel that’s a responsibility of the board. The actual impact on fans when you break it down is minimal for the return imo. 

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9 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Remember that the next time you say it to others then.

You can't have it both ways.

Absolutely, I’m not telling people they have to stop, just pointing out the repetition. This website would be very boring without the St Moan side of our fans though 

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10 hours ago, DumboBud said:

When the season ticket statement gives no mention of a target to be met to get the decision reversed (unlike before with the target for W7) and the boards mouthpiece confirms that it won’t change then it is safe to say the decision won’t be altered no matter how wrong it is. 

It is done, we move forward but not as well as we would have moved forward by being an inclusive family friendly anti bigot club. 

Rough calculations suggest we would have to increase our season ticket numbers by over circa 1,300 fans or by about 40% (open to accurate calculations but I’m sure this isn’t far off) it’s not a realistic target by any stretch of the imagination & would only open us up to failure. 

No one is confirming though it won’t change if in the future these numbers are hit. GLS has literally said as much less than 3 months ago. To think a single sentence in an unrelated statement, that only confirms the OF arrangement (doesn’t provide new or different information) is him backtracking is very much clutching at straws.  

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53 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Rough calculations suggest we would have to increase our season ticket numbers by over circa 1,300 fans or by about 40% (open to accurate calculations but I’m sure this isn’t far off) it’s not a realistic target by any stretch of the imagination & would only open us up to failure. 

No one is confirming though it won’t change if in the future these numbers are hit. GLS has literally said as much less than 3 months ago. To think a single sentence in an unrelated statement, that only confirms the OF arrangement (doesn’t provide new or different information) is him backtracking is very much clutching at straws.  

The target to get W7 kept for home fans only wasn’t to sell out the West Bank with season tickets, if I recall correctly it was if we sell x amount of ST’s by a certain date then W7 will be saints fans exclusively. 

No such incentive or variation of this was given to try and keep the family stand for families for the season so there is absolutely no chance of the decision being reversed this season. No clutching at straws required here. 

If for example the position had been if there are say 500 Adult ST’s sold by a certain date then we won’t hand the stand to the opposition at all next season, then that might have been an incentive to maximise sales. But it simply didn’t happen and each season that goes by with the current arrangement makes it less and less likely that it will be reversed. 

Those saying that if we sell out the other two stands then the decision will be reversed are the ones being disingenuous with their argument and to be fair to the board, even they haven’t put this forward as a solution. 

But then again the board haven’t engaged constructively in this in anyway or proposed anything concrete as a solution. 

Unless of course certain posters on here do actually speak for the board rather than having an unofficial apologist status. 

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Absolutely, I’m not telling people they have to stop, just pointing out the repetition. This website would be very boring without the St Moan side of our fans though 

Whit ?

You suggesting St Mirren fans like a moan ?

Outrageous, almost as bad as the club trying to increase revenue

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Oh well there's going to be a lot of repetition and moaning on this issue next season... I generally don't have an issue with anything else going on at the club, just this. Even the crap ticketing website doesn't really bother me.

Edited by proudtobeabuddy

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Those saying that if we sell out the other two stands then the decision will be reversed are the ones being disingenuous with their argument and to be fair to the board, even they haven’t put this forward as a solution.


It's not disingenuous, it's just basic arithmetic and common sense.

If there are no spare seats in the other two stands for those in the family stand to move to then, if the board didn't change the decision, they would essentially be telling their own season ticket holders that they are not allowed to go to certain home games.

Whatever anyone thinks of the board, I don't think anyone thinks that they would do that. It would be suicidal.

It's actually likely that the decision would be changed as soon as there are fewer seats available in the other two stands than there are season ticket holders in the family stand.

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1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

Rough calculations suggest we would have to increase our season ticket numbers by over circa 1,300 fans or by about 40% (open to accurate calculations but I’m sure this isn’t far off) it’s not a realistic target by any stretch of the imagination & would only open us up to failure. 

No one is confirming though it won’t change if in the future these numbers are hit. GLS has literally said as much less than 3 months ago. To think a single sentence in an unrelated statement, that only confirms the OF arrangement (doesn’t provide new or different information) is him backtracking is very much clutching at straws.  

I rarely get involved in discussions on here, it seems pointless trying to debate with with people that I don't know who, in some cases, are quite clearly never going to change their opinion.  However, as you have said that you are open to accurate calculations I will make an exception.

There is a caveat here that I have had to make certain assumptions (some of which we can be fairly sure won't be correct) so the calculations can't be totally accurate as exact numbers are not know.  These assumption are:

When the Old Firm they sell out the South Stand (1654 seats according to Google) with full price adult tickets.

Every extra season ticket sold is an adult ticket, purchased for the South Stand at the early bird price (with no increase to allow for an extra three games being included)

We finish in the bottom six (sorry Tony) and Rangers and Celtic both finish in the top six, so there are three affected games.

On this basis the extra revenue brought in by handing the Old Firm both stands behind the goals is £133974 (1654 x £27 x 3)

The number of extra season tickets required to match this amount of money is 558.25 (£133974 / £240). 

Given the feel good factor surrounding the club at the end of the season I wouldn't consider selling an extra 560 season tickets an unrealistic target (not saying it would definitely happen - simply it might).  Of course, if we were to consider other factors that number would reduce.  For example, if the south stand season tickets were the same price as  the rest of the stadium (as they would now include the same number of matches) the number of extra season tickets required would be would be 442.16 (133974 / 303). 

Admittedly these calculations do not allow for the fact that some of the people buying the extra season tickets may attend some matches anyway.  An alternative way of looking at it could be saying we need to increase our average home support by 320 adults.  (£133974 / £22 / 19 games).  I don't know what our average home support is but I'd guess this would be approximately 10%.  This is another target that I don't think is unrealistic, although obviously we wouldn't know whether it was achieved before the season started and these decisions need to be made.

Finally none of the figures above take into account any savings that the club may make by having less opposition in the stadium or indeed any extra income that they may get by having extra St. Mirren fans in the stadium every match as opposed to extra Old Firm fans for 3 matches. (Approximately 400 x 19 (7600) compared to 1654 x 3 (4962)). 

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14 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:


 

 


It's not disingenuous, it's just basic arithmetic and common sense.

If there are no spare seats in the other two stands for those in the family stand to move to then, if the board didn't change the decision, they would essentially be telling their own season ticket holders that they are not allowed to go to certain home games.

Whatever anyone thinks of the board, I don't think anyone thinks that they would do that. It would be suicidal.

It's actually likely that the decision would be changed as soon as there are fewer seats available in the other two stands than there are season ticket holders in the family stand.

 

Who is to say that if the circumstances ever arose that we sold out the other two stands to ST’s that the board decision won’t be that there still aren’t enough families going to justify whatever financial hit they would receive by not giving the OF the two stands and simply decide that family stand ST’s are for all non OF games only and that’s your lot. 

After all even if the family stand was also full it isn’t unreasonable to expect that the income from ticket sales for a one off match where the clientele are more likely to be adults would be greater than the income loss of reducing the price of STs to kids and families. 

For most of those on the thread that are behind this decision the reason they give is purely financial. So presumably they would still line up behind the board in this instance. 

For what its worth this decision is still, in my opinion, the wrong one and until there is some openness about under what circumstances they would consider reversing it there is very little the fans can do. 

The W7 guys were given a target to reach to guarantee their area, no incentive or target has been given for the fans to get behind reclaiming our family friendly credentials. 

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Who is to say that if the circumstances ever arose that we sold out the other two stands to ST’s that the board decision won’t be that there still aren’t enough families going to justify whatever financial hit they would receive by not giving the OF the two stands and simply decide that family stand ST’s are for all non OF games only and that’s your lot. 
After all even if the family stand was also full it isn’t unreasonable to expect that the income from ticket sales for a one off match where the clientele are more likely to be adults would be greater than the income loss of reducing the price of STs to kids and families. 
For most of those on the thread that are behind this decision the reason they give is purely financial. So presumably they would still line up behind the board in this instance. 
For what its worth this decision is still, in my opinion, the wrong one and until there is some openness about under what circumstances they would consider reversing it there is very little the fans can do. 
The W7 guys were given a target to reach to guarantee their area, no incentive or target has been given for the fans to get behind reclaiming our family friendly credentials. 


Me. I'll say it. It wouldn't happen.

I also don't like the decision to give away two stands, but I understand it.

The way it stands just now is that those in the family stand can be accommodated in the other two stands and therefore no ST holder is being told that they cannot attend a specific game - and the club pull in more money.

If the ST holders in the family stand could not be accommodated in the other two stands then the board would not give away the other stand as telling your own fans that they cannot attend a specific home game, because away fans are getting their seats, would be suicide for the board.

Yes, theoretically, it could happen (and therefore is a statistical possibility, however small) but, in reality, it wouldn't happen. If you can't see that, then I'm out of the discussion.

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14 hours ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

So if we don't we continue to be  surrounded by them thus handing them an extra advantage... Remember, the BOD and our manager have repeatedly indicated the importance of the fans this season....apart from the OF games it seems...

You're wasting your time. He's a fully paid up member of the "Take It Up The Jacksie For The Club" club. 

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