Jump to content

proudtobeabuddy

If we stay up... Give us the family stand back.

Recommended Posts

Oh well there's going to be a lot of repetition and moaning on this issue next season... I generally don't have an issue with anything else going on at the club, just this. Even the crap ticketing website doesn't really bother me.

Edited by proudtobeabuddy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

Rough calculations suggest we would have to increase our season ticket numbers by over circa 1,300 fans or by about 40% (open to accurate calculations but I’m sure this isn’t far off) it’s not a realistic target by any stretch of the imagination & would only open us up to failure. 

No one is confirming though it won’t change if in the future these numbers are hit. GLS has literally said as much less than 3 months ago. To think a single sentence in an unrelated statement, that only confirms the OF arrangement (doesn’t provide new or different information) is him backtracking is very much clutching at straws.  

I rarely get involved in discussions on here, it seems pointless trying to debate with with people that I don't know who, in some cases, are quite clearly never going to change their opinion.  However, as you have said that you are open to accurate calculations I will make an exception.

There is a caveat here that I have had to make certain assumptions (some of which we can be fairly sure won't be correct) so the calculations can't be totally accurate as exact numbers are not know.  These assumption are:

When the Old Firm they sell out the South Stand (1654 seats according to Google) with full price adult tickets.

Every extra season ticket sold is an adult ticket, purchased for the South Stand at the early bird price (with no increase to allow for an extra three games being included)

We finish in the bottom six (sorry Tony) and Rangers and Celtic both finish in the top six, so there are three affected games.

On this basis the extra revenue brought in by handing the Old Firm both stands behind the goals is £133974 (1654 x £27 x 3)

The number of extra season tickets required to match this amount of money is 558.25 (£133974 / £240). 

Given the feel good factor surrounding the club at the end of the season I wouldn't consider selling an extra 560 season tickets an unrealistic target (not saying it would definitely happen - simply it might).  Of course, if we were to consider other factors that number would reduce.  For example, if the south stand season tickets were the same price as  the rest of the stadium (as they would now include the same number of matches) the number of extra season tickets required would be would be 442.16 (133974 / 303). 

Admittedly these calculations do not allow for the fact that some of the people buying the extra season tickets may attend some matches anyway.  An alternative way of looking at it could be saying we need to increase our average home support by 320 adults.  (£133974 / £22 / 19 games).  I don't know what our average home support is but I'd guess this would be approximately 10%.  This is another target that I don't think is unrealistic, although obviously we wouldn't know whether it was achieved before the season started and these decisions need to be made.

Finally none of the figures above take into account any savings that the club may make by having less opposition in the stadium or indeed any extra income that they may get by having extra St. Mirren fans in the stadium every match as opposed to extra Old Firm fans for 3 matches. (Approximately 400 x 19 (7600) compared to 1654 x 3 (4962)). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:


 

 


It's not disingenuous, it's just basic arithmetic and common sense.

If there are no spare seats in the other two stands for those in the family stand to move to then, if the board didn't change the decision, they would essentially be telling their own season ticket holders that they are not allowed to go to certain home games.

Whatever anyone thinks of the board, I don't think anyone thinks that they would do that. It would be suicidal.

It's actually likely that the decision would be changed as soon as there are fewer seats available in the other two stands than there are season ticket holders in the family stand.

 

Who is to say that if the circumstances ever arose that we sold out the other two stands to ST’s that the board decision won’t be that there still aren’t enough families going to justify whatever financial hit they would receive by not giving the OF the two stands and simply decide that family stand ST’s are for all non OF games only and that’s your lot. 

After all even if the family stand was also full it isn’t unreasonable to expect that the income from ticket sales for a one off match where the clientele are more likely to be adults would be greater than the income loss of reducing the price of STs to kids and families. 

For most of those on the thread that are behind this decision the reason they give is purely financial. So presumably they would still line up behind the board in this instance. 

For what its worth this decision is still, in my opinion, the wrong one and until there is some openness about under what circumstances they would consider reversing it there is very little the fans can do. 

The W7 guys were given a target to reach to guarantee their area, no incentive or target has been given for the fans to get behind reclaiming our family friendly credentials. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, proudtobeabuddy said:

So if we don't we continue to be  surrounded by them thus handing them an extra advantage... Remember, the BOD and our manager have repeatedly indicated the importance of the fans this season....apart from the OF games it seems...

You're wasting your time. He's a fully paid up member of the "Take It Up The Jacksie For The Club" club. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:


 

 


Me. I'll say it. It wouldn't happen.

I also don't like the decision to give away two stands, but I understand it.

The way it stands just now is that those in the family stand can be accommodated in the other two stands and therefore no ST holder is being told that they cannot attend a specific game - and the club pull in more money.

If the ST holders in the family stand could not be accommodated in the other two stands then the board would not give away the other stand as telling your own fans that they cannot attend a specific home game, because away fans are getting their seats, would be suicide for the board.

Yes, theoretically, it could happen (and therefore is a statistical possibility, however small) but, in reality, it wouldn't happen. If you can't see that, then I'm out of the discussion.

 

I agree that it is extremely unlikely to happen that we will sell out the north and main stands with STs but the logic shown further displays the ludicrousness of the argument that those that claim it is purely a financial decision. At some point there is a tipping point between trying to maximise income and respecting  and growing our family support. It would appear that for you that tipping point is when there are no alternative seats for the family stand ST holders, for me the tipping point is somewhat different. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, buddiekev said:

I rarely get involved in discussions on here, it seems pointless trying to debate with with people that I don't know who, in some cases, are quite clearly never going to change their opinion.  However, as you have said that you are open to accurate calculations I will make an exception.

There is a caveat here that I have had to make certain assumptions (some of which we can be fairly sure won't be correct) so the calculations can't be totally accurate as exact numbers are not know.  These assumption are:

When the Old Firm they sell out the South Stand (1654 seats according to Google) with full price adult tickets.

Every extra season ticket sold is an adult ticket, purchased for the South Stand at the early bird price (with no increase to allow for an extra three games being included)

We finish in the bottom six (sorry Tony) and Rangers and Celtic both finish in the top six, so there are three affected games.

On this basis the extra revenue brought in by handing the Old Firm both stands behind the goals is £133974 (1654 x £27 x 3)

The number of extra season tickets required to match this amount of money is 558.25 (£133974 / £240). 

Given the feel good factor surrounding the club at the end of the season I wouldn't consider selling an extra 560 season tickets an unrealistic target (not saying it would definitely happen - simply it might).  Of course, if we were to consider other factors that number would reduce.  For example, if the south stand season tickets were the same price as  the rest of the stadium (as they would now include the same number of matches) the number of extra season tickets required would be would be 442.16 (133974 / 303). 

Admittedly these calculations do not allow for the fact that some of the people buying the extra season tickets may attend some matches anyway.  An alternative way of looking at it could be saying we need to increase our average home support by 320 adults.  (£133974 / £22 / 19 games).  I don't know what our average home support is but I'd guess this would be approximately 10%.  This is another target that I don't think is unrealistic, although obviously we wouldn't know whether it was achieved before the season started and these decisions need to be made.

Finally none of the figures above take into account any savings that the club may make by having less opposition in the stadium or indeed any extra income that they may get by having extra St. Mirren fans in the stadium every match as opposed to extra Old Firm fans for 3 matches. (Approximately 400 x 19 (7600) compared to 1654 x 3 (4962)). 

You appear to have made the same mistake as Baz. The figure for the extra fans the OF bring needs to take into account those who used to be put in W7. That drastically reduces the apparent financial benefits of giving them the whole Family Stand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You appear to have made the same mistake as Baz. The figure for the extra fans the OF bring needs to take into account those who used to be put in W7. That drastically reduces the apparent financial benefits of giving them the whole Family Stand.

That would only matter if the club gave back W7 to away fans.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The target to get W7 kept for home fans only wasn’t to sell out the West Bank with season tickets, if I recall correctly it was if we sell x amount of ST’s by a certain date then W7 will be saints fans exclusively. 
No such incentive or variation of this was given to try and keep the family stand for families for the season so there is absolutely no chance of the decision being reversed this season. No clutching at straws required here. 
If for example the position had been if there are say 500 Adult ST’s sold by a certain date then we won’t hand the stand to the opposition at all next season, then that might have been an incentive to maximise sales. But it simply didn’t happen and each season that goes by with the current arrangement makes it less and less likely that it will be reversed. 
Those saying that if we sell out the other two stands then the decision will be reversed are the ones being disingenuous with their argument and to be fair to the board, even they haven’t put this forward as a solution. 
But then again the board haven’t engaged constructively in this in anyway or proposed anything concrete as a solution. 
Unless of course certain posters on here do actually speak for the board rather than having an unofficial apologist status. 
100% this! Well said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You appear to have made the same mistake as Baz. The figure for the extra fans the OF bring needs to take into account those who used to be put in W7. That drastically reduces the apparent financial benefits of giving them the whole Family Stand.
I wouldn't class it as a mistake to not include those who used to be in W7 as I believe the choice is now a straight line between 1 or 2 stands. Having said that, if you do want to do the calculations on that basis then you are obviously correct, less extra season tickets would be required. I'm not sure how many as I don't know how many old firm fans were seated in W6/7.

Incidentally, I'm not trying to argue that the extra income is substantial enough to hand over both stands. My point was more that Bazils estimated figure of over 1300 season tickets was not accurate. My season ticket is in the main stand so I'm not directly affected in terms of having to move, however having to enter and (particularly) leave the stadium through a whole host of opposition fans is far from a good experience, never mind the sporting benefits restricting them to one stand may bring. I personally believe the club should instead be doing more to encourage more home fans along and making more money that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wouldn't class it as a mistake to not include those who used to be in W7 as I believe the choice is now a straight line between 1 or 2 stands. Having said that, if you do want to do the calculations on that basis then you are obviously correct, less extra season tickets would be required. I'm not sure how many as I don't know how many old firm fans were seated in W6/7.

Incidentally, I'm not trying to argue that the extra income is substantial enough to hand over both stands. My point was more that Bazils estimated figure of over 1300 season tickets was not accurate. My season ticket is in the main stand so I'm not directly affected in terms of having to move, however having to enter and (particularly) leave the stadium through a whole host of opposition fans is far from a good experience, never mind the sporting benefits restricting them to one stand may bring. I personally believe the club should instead be doing more to encourage more home fans along and making more money that way.
Your very last point has been mine since day one.
Nothing! Rien. De nada. Zilch. Nowt!
Not one bit if effort into incentivising our own support or building it up.
No foresight. No initiative. No desire. Easy option. Easy money.

It basically came down to not wanting to piss off the w7 crew so shafting the family stand instead. That simple.

Not one f**k was given!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, stlucifer said:

That would only matter if the club gave back W7 to away fans.

It matters when you are trying to work how much the move has made us and thus what the price of pissing off family stand supporters was.

That information has been obfuscated away by Scott leaving the rest of us to speculate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, buddiekev said:

I wouldn't class it as a mistake to not include those who used to be in W7 as I believe the choice is now a straight line between 1 or 2 stands. Having said that, if you do want to do the calculations on that basis then you are obviously correct, less extra season tickets would be required. I'm not sure how many as I don't know how many old firm fans were seated in W6/7.

Incidentally, I'm not trying to argue that the extra income is substantial enough to hand over both stands. My point was more that Bazils estimated figure of over 1300 season tickets was not accurate. My season ticket is in the main stand so I'm not directly affected in terms of having to move, however having to enter and (particularly) leave the stadium through a whole host of opposition fans is far from a good experience, never mind the sporting benefits restricting them to one stand may bring. I personally believe the club should instead be doing more to encourage more home fans along and making more money that way.

If you want to compare what income we now generate after the move it is essential that you include this figure and it certainly is a mistake to exclude it.

If however you want to ask about the cost of removing them from the family stand and accept that going back to giving them W7 is out of the question, then of course you have to then compare 1 and 2 stands.

That's two seperate questions though and the debate so far hasn't moved on from the first question about the worth of the move compared to the hassle inflicted on family stand fans.

Edited by oaksoft

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Basically a shit decision taken by an out of touch board who went back on their promise to consult the support.

our board want the smisa money to buy hand dryers and matchballs. killie's board consulted with their fans and used their fans funds to develop the stadium to benefit.... guess who?

The support that turns up for every game, and investing in the next generation. Meanwhile our board are investing in racist, sectarian, explosive tossing bigots!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Basically a shit decision taken by an out of touch board who went back on their promise to consult the support.

our board want the smisa money to buy hand dryers and matchballs. killie's board consulted with their fans and used their fans funds to develop the stadium to benefit.... guess who?

The support that turns up for every game, and investing in the next generation. Meanwhile our board are investing in racist, sectarian, explosive tossing bigots!

Summed up perfectly. 

Next Season, for at least 3 matches, those in the Home and West Stands will be able to enjoy.... 

ABSOLUTE SCUM SINGING MORONIC SECTARIAN SONGS IN FECKING STEREO. 

Our Club welcome them. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Basically a shit decision taken by an out of touch board who went back on their promise to consult the support.


TBH, even if the BOD had engaged with fans and the outcome was the same you’d still be on here boring us shitless with the same argument because you don’t agree with it.

Instead of wasting your time on here why not give Gordon a call and share your ideas to increase the home fans in the family stand. I reckon another 300-400 would give him pause which is surely do-able for someone with your keyboard skills?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/15/2019 at 10:59 AM, DumboBud said:

The target to get W7 kept for home fans only wasn’t to sell out the West Bank with season tickets, if I recall correctly it was if we sell x amount of ST’s by a certain date then W7 will be saints fans exclusively. 

No such incentive or variation of this was given to try and keep the family stand for families for the season so there is absolutely no chance of the decision being reversed this season. No clutching at straws required here. 

If for example the position had been if there are say 500 Adult ST’s sold by a certain date then we won’t hand the stand to the opposition at all next season, then that might have been an incentive to maximise sales. But it simply didn’t happen and each season that goes by with the current arrangement makes it less and less likely that it will be reversed. 

Those saying that if we sell out the other two stands then the decision will be reversed are the ones being disingenuous with their argument and to be fair to the board, even they haven’t put this forward as a solution. 

But then again the board haven’t engaged constructively in this in anyway or proposed anything concrete as a solution. 

Unless of course certain posters on here do actually speak for the board rather than having an unofficial apologist status. 

From memory it was to sell 1,000 tickets to make W saints only. GLS has made it clear that the two stand arrangement will remain until our fan base justifies not having it. Like I say to do that it would be a monumental & unachievable number this season (common sense tells us)

I’m not claiming the decision will/ would change this  season but it’s for the above reason not because of any backtracking. 

They could have done as you say with the X number of tickets but even if achieved it would still have been at the expense of the financial difference in giving them two stands & we still wouldn’t have sold enough to fill even two stands. That’s the decision & it won’t change until we get the bums on seats. That should be the target over the next few years. We sold a record number of season tickets at new ground last season with the arrangement in place so there’s no clear evidence the arrangement is hindering fans buying these tickets   

GLS update in April strongly suggests when our fan numbers increase to that level the decision will be reversed. It’s a lot more suggestive that’ll happen than the one single sentence people are clinging onto that says he’s ‘changed his mind’ 

I assure you as I have done several people in the past I don’t speak for the board and I’m in no way associated with them or SMISA (beyond being a paying member) which has been insinuated in the past. 

I have no doubt this subject won’t die anytime soon but It is short term. We’ll be fan owned in the not too distant future. Anyone with a continued gripe on this that isn’t signed up to BTB know how they can speed this up. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/15/2019 at 12:37 PM, buddiekev said:

I rarely get involved in discussions on here, it seems pointless trying to debate with with people that I don't know who, in some cases, are quite clearly never going to change their opinion.  However, as you have said that you are open to accurate calculations I will make an exception.

There is a caveat here that I have had to make certain assumptions (some of which we can be fairly sure won't be correct) so the calculations can't be totally accurate as exact numbers are not know.  These assumption are:

When the Old Firm they sell out the South Stand (1654 seats according to Google) with full price adult tickets.

Every extra season ticket sold is an adult ticket, purchased for the South Stand at the early bird price (with no increase to allow for an extra three games being included)

We finish in the bottom six (sorry Tony) and Rangers and Celtic both finish in the top six, so there are three affected games.

On this basis the extra revenue brought in by handing the Old Firm both stands behind the goals is £133974 (1654 x £27 x 3)

The number of extra season tickets required to match this amount of money is 558.25 (£133974 / £240). 

Given the feel good factor surrounding the club at the end of the season I wouldn't consider selling an extra 560 season tickets an unrealistic target (not saying it would definitely happen - simply it might).  Of course, if we were to consider other factors that number would reduce.  For example, if the south stand season tickets were the same price as  the rest of the stadium (as they would now include the same number of matches) the number of extra season tickets required would be would be 442.16 (133974 / 303). 

Admittedly these calculations do not allow for the fact that some of the people buying the extra season tickets may attend some matches anyway.  An alternative way of looking at it could be saying we need to increase our average home support by 320 adults.  (£133974 / £22 / 19 games).  I don't know what our average home support is but I'd guess this would be approximately 10%.  This is another target that I don't think is unrealistic, although obviously we wouldn't know whether it was achieved before the season started and these decisions need to be made.

Finally none of the figures above take into account any savings that the club may make by having less opposition in the stadium or indeed any extra income that they may get by having extra St. Mirren fans in the stadium every match as opposed to extra Old Firm fans for 3 matches. (Approximately 400 x 19 (7600) compared to 1654 x 3 (4962)). 

A very sensible & well thought out post. My response is probably just a simplistic one. On a yearly basis we should be looking to increase our ticket sales anyway we can and if we did hit that target brilliant (still not likely I would argue but great)... it still wouldn’t fill two stands with st Mirren season ticket.

In that situation I would still want to give them two stands & I’d wager a silent but considerable number of fans would still agree. (Across all media I think I’d struggle to name 20/ 30 individual outspoken fans on this subject although I do accept there will be silent ones that don’t like it). Can you imagine the increase in budget if we did both? plus any st Mirren fan wanting to attend these games still could. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/15/2019 at 6:06 PM, oaksoft said:

You appear to have made the same mistake as Baz. The figure for the extra fans the OF bring needs to take into account those who used to be put in W7. That drastically reduces the apparent financial benefits of giving them the whole Family Stand.

It’s not a mistake it was a conscious choice. A comparison of what we do for 9 teams against what we do for the other 2 is completely justifiable and likely what our chairman did with the 10% budget comments. 

You can compare to an arrangement that has never been in place under this board it’s equally justifiable but it doesn’t mean your view is right and others wrong. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/15/2019 at 6:06 PM, oaksoft said:

You appear to have made the same mistake as Baz. The figure for the extra fans the OF bring needs to take into account those who used to be put in W7. That drastically reduces the apparent financial benefits of giving them the whole Family Stand.

And the extra strewarding

 

On 6/15/2019 at 6:06 PM, oaksoft said:

You appear to have made the same mistake as Baz. The figure for the extra fans the OF bring needs to take into account those who used to be put in W7. That drastically reduces the apparent financial benefits of giving them the whole Family Stand.

and police costs need to be deducted  from any extra income

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, DLBud said:

 


TBH, even if the BOD had engaged with fans and the outcome was the same you’d still be on here boring us shitless with the same argument because you don’t agree with it.

Instead of wasting your time on here why not give Gordon a call and share your ideas to increase the home fans in the family stand. I reckon another 300-400 would give him pause which is surely do-able for someone with your keyboard skills?

 

Exactly let’s not forget LPM recently started crying and cancelling direct debits because less than 1% of SMISA members agreed with him on a members arrangement. 

Broken record, hypocrite, liar. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, DLBud said:

 


TBH, even if the BOD had engaged with fans and the outcome was the same you’d still be on here boring us shitless with the same argument because you don’t agree with it.

Instead of wasting your time on here why not give Gordon a call and share your ideas to increase the home fans in the family stand. I reckon another 300-400 would give him pause which is surely do-able for someone with your keyboard skills?

 

The board should be out there trying to selling more season tickets ! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, waldorf34 said:

The board should be out there trying to selling more season tickets ! 

They are, we sold a record number at the new stadium last season and who’s to say we won’t beat that this season. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, cockles1987 said:

I believe it was a supporter that asked for hand driers to be included on the ballot.

Wouldn't want you to be accused again and again at lying. emoji23.png

Any option to spend on smfc put to the membership comes from the club, regardless who may have thought of it. Oh dear another fail for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, DLBud said:

 


TBH, even if the BOD had engaged with fans and the outcome was the same you’d still be on here boring us shitless with the same argument because you don’t agree with it.

Instead of wasting your time on here why not give Gordon a call and share your ideas to increase the home fans in the family stand. I reckon another 300-400 would give him pause which is surely do-able for someone with your keyboard skills?

 

If Scott had actually been as good as his word and consulted with the support maybe the outcome would have been the same?

but then it would be a decision backed by the support, arrived at by doing what he said he would and involving the support!

smisa members may want to cast their minds back three years to the BtB campaign which promised that as 30% shareholders they would have genuine involvement in what direction the club goes in.

Now other than being asked what cockamamie scheme to give money to the club for, can anyone quote one... just one decision the membership have been consulted/involved with..? Just one!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

 likely what our chairman did with the 10% budget comments. 

I don't buy the 10% increase in budgets. 

Last set of accounts showed wage spend of just shy of 2 million. That was for a season in the championship so will be lower than this year. That includes non playing staff, but for the 10% being close to accurate we'd need to be spending as much or more on the non playing staff as we are on the playing staff. With the average salary of a player being over 45k (in an article I read on BBC sport I'm sure) that can't be the case.

 

I think it's safe to say when the accounts come out it'll show the 10% increase to be nonsense. I imagine it's hoped that the 10% increase statement will be forgotten about by then. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...