oaksoft Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: 13 hours ago, oaksoft said: He is a nobody. A bit like the bellend who tried to paint you as being just like him. I'm not getting into name calling, I'm just trying to make him see that his position on this one matter is flawed. Good luck with that. You can't argue with stupidity though. Edited May 16, 2019 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 On 5/15/2019 at 5:02 PM, Slartibartfast said: On 5/15/2019 at 4:28 PM, insaintee said: Baker could have killed the whole story by saying sorry, but when he then goes on to justify his retweet and defend it as not racist and attacking those who objected to the post, then he showed himself up for what he is. Sacking him definately the right call. Baker is a twat, but that doesn't mean he is racist and, even if he is, it doesn't mean that the tweeted picture is racist. No it doesn't, Posting racist posts and then justifying it and attacking people that point it is waht makes him a racist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 On 5/15/2019 at 5:00 PM, oaksoft said: Two fantastic examples of how to lose an argument without retaining a shred of dignity. If someone doesnt agree with you, call them a racist. Bravo, the pair of you. What a couple of spangles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 51 minutes ago, insaintee said: Not at all. The story is that you are acting like a twat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said: To be honest, I haven't seen anything else apart from the original picture which, in my opinion, isn't racist. If that is what he is claiming isn't racist and defending himself against accusations of being a racist, which are due solely to that original picture, then I think he is perfectly entitled to do so. The only person to call me a racist to my face, and not retract it given the opportunity, ended up unconscious a few seconds later. It's the only time I've been been violent in the last twenty years (probably longer) but false accusations of racism are not something to be taken lightly, in my opinion. Maybe all these online hard men (or women) should have the guts to go and accuse him to his face. Personally, I haven't ever said anything to anyone online that I wouldn't be willing to say to their face, maybe everyone should be like me. Baker's still a twat, though. (And yes, I would say that to his face. ) Baker could have come and said the picture was not intended to be anti-black but anti-monarchist. But the connection with dressed up monekies and racism is clear. All it needed was a proper applogy, None forthcomeing The tweet is undoubtably racist. We can all make mistakes, we can all appologise own up and move on. That's not what he's doing. I hope your not threatening violence against me. For the record I have not called you racist. I also think if you did resort to violence then it shows that you have to quote oaky lost the argument. And also I promise you you would regret it. There are enough internet hard men with out you trying to be one. Sign up for anger management classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said: 1 hour ago, insaintee said: Baker could have come and said the picture was not intended to be anti-black but anti-monarchist. But the connection with dressed up monekies and racism is clear. All it needed was a proper applogy, None forthcomeing The tweet is undoubtably racist. We can all make mistakes, we can all appologise own up and move on. That's not what he's doing. I hope your not threatening violence against me. For the record I have not called you racist. I also think if you did resort to violence then it shows that you have to quote oaky lost the argument. And also I promise you you would regret it. There are enough internet hard men with out you trying to be one. Sign up for anger management classes. Not saying you called me a racist, not threatening violence, not even in an argument so can't have lost one, not trying to be any type of hard man, don't need anger management classes as I'm probably one of the most laid back folk you could ever meet. I only mentioned it to demonstrate how seriously I take false allegations of racism. So let me get this right. You've been called racist to your face on a number of occasions and when you have, you've responded by violence. You're not coming out of this looking good. paricularly as you consider comparing a black child with a dressed up monkey not racist. I've never been called racist. On a few occasions, it's been suggested a remark I've made might be inappropriate, or could be construde as racist. I've generally responded by appologising and withdrawing the remark. Edited May 16, 2019 by insaintee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 Just now, Slartibartfast said: 2 minutes ago, insaintee said: So let me get this right. You've been called racist to your face on a number of occasions and when you have, you've responded by violence. You're not coming out of this looking good. I've never been called racist. On a few occasions, it's been suggested a remark I've made might be inappropriate, or could be construde as racist. I've generally responded by appologising and withdrawing the remark. That's not what I said though, is it? It kind of is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 19 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: No, it isn't. I've been called racist once to my face. The guy never retracted it given the chance. He was obviously looking for trouble, admittedly I never mentioned that so you couldn't know. Normally I would try and avoid the trouble (hence the only time in more than 20 years) but I took the false allegation of racism so seriously that I wasn't willing to let it lie, and also quite a few people had overheard it. Does that make it a bit clearer. An accusation of racism is, like accusations of rape or child abuse, one of those things that can stick if not dealt with straight away. Ok I wasn't there and can't comment.. I'm just saying how your remarks came across. FTR I still have not said or implied your a racist. I am however dissappointed that an intelligent man such as (not blowing smoke up yir arse, generally you come across well) can see the racist content in a post comparing a black child with a dressed up monkey. I admitt the first time I saw the post I didn't see what the fuss was about assuming it be anti monarchy rather than anti black (cuse me for not keeping up with the royal corrispondant) but in the context of Megen being black and there for her child then it is 100% inappropriate. I guarentee there were no similar pictures being circulated when William and what ever her name is had their children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 What are you talking about, I argue with myself all the time. [emoji12] No we don’t . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 What about traveller scum ? Can I get away with that ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Gilhooley Posted May 16, 2019 Report Share Posted May 16, 2019 You have so far. [emoji33] Pikey ? Too far ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 9 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: Again, FTR, I haven't accused you of calling me racist, or implying it. You can't really guarantee that there weren't similar pictures. Maybe there were and, because there were no race issues, they weren't reported and no big fuss was made. Let's face it, even as an anti-monarchy joke, it wasn't very funny. Correct me if I'm wrong here but I believe that Megan is half black, which would make the child quarter black. If it was intended as a racist "joke" then why wasn't Megan portrayed as a chimp as she, from a racist perspective, I imagine would be "more chimp". There are bound to be pictures out there with a white dude and two dressed up chimps. To me it was an unfunny joke but there was no intention of racism. Maybe, being a public figure, he should have put more thought into it, but being lazy, unfunny and a twat doesn't automatically make someone a racist. I believe that there are far too many people out there looking to be offended, usually on someone else's behalf, and the internet just makes it easy for people to make claims against others and make themselves feel important when, in reality, they are probably complete nonentities who wouldn't say boo to a goose. We used to have a twat from Wishaw on here who was a prime example, you must remember him. All this sort of "hysteria" does is take away from tackling real instances racism. IMHO, of course. Maybe he should have said that it wasn't intended that way and explained what was meant by it as soon as the first accusations were made. But whether or not he could have dealt with the situation better, doesn't change whether or not the picture was racist. Maybe I'm not explaining it very well. Oh, and keep your smoke away from my ass. I'm sorry but posting images of a clothed monkey and comparing it to a black child is real racism. Calling names, teasing banter, call it what you will it's racism and makes the lives of those that suffer from it miserable. The excuse would be that you thought there were some other reason for posting it and did not think of the racial connection. Fair enough you made a mistake move on. That's not what's happened here. There is no such thing as half black, or quater-black except in pre Mandella South Africa and American south where your "degree of blackness" was relevent to Jim Crow laws and appartheid. Presumably there was no easy stock photo that portrayed Megan as a monkey with a dressed up monkey child. (although I'm sure there are plenty of racially offensive posts about her). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 It's basically no okay to say that one section of humanity is somehow inferior to another , it was something that the Nazis did in the thirties by referring to swathes of society as subhuman and it was also done here during the Highland Clearances. It is used to visit upon people bad treatment. . The start of this kind of nonsense is usually telling us that man is an animal but some animals are better than others . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, saintnextlifetime said: It's basically no okay to say that one section of humanity is somehow inferior to another , it was something that the Nazis did in the thirties by referring to swathes of society as subhuman and it was also done here during the Highland Clearances. It is used to visit upon people bad treatment. . The start of this kind of nonsense is usually telling us that man is an animal but some animals are better than others . . I think we can safely say that paedophiles, rapists, murderers, burglars and thieves are worse human beings than others. I am pretty confident that most of us on here are better than those types of people. Of course, having a different colour of skin doesn't make you less human than others but that's a different thing. Edited May 17, 2019 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 58 minutes ago, insaintee said: I'm sorry but posting images of a clothed monkey and comparing it to a black child is real racism. Yes but nobody did that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: Yes but nobody did that. I think you'll find they did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 It's basically no okay to say that one section of humanity is somehow inferior to another , it was something that the Nazis did in the thirties by referring to swathes of society as subhuman and it was also done here during the Highland Clearances. It is used to visit upon people bad treatment. . The start of this kind of nonsense is usually telling us that man is an animal but some animals are better than others . .Along with normalising of racist language and images.Recently this has been done by using terms like snowflake for those who object to racist behaviour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: I think we can safely say that paedophiles, rapists, murderers, burglars and thieves are worse human beings than others. I am pretty confident that most of us on here are better than those types of people. Of course, having a different colour of skin doesn't make you less human than others but that's a different thing. I was having bread stolen from the front of the shop. Not your everyday type bread it's made specially for the business . I got up early to catch the person. Had a good chat with him regarding how it's hard to make a business work over here all business. Told him I was not contracting the Police as long as it did not happen again. The person has not long moved to the island . If this person has to steal bread then to me he must be in some dire circumstance. Certainly don't think he is a worse person than me people can hit rock bottom . Paedophile , murderers is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TediousTom Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 29 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: I was having bread stolen from the front of the shop. Not your everyday type bread it's made specially for the business . I got up early to catch the person. Had a good chat with him regarding how it's hard to make a business work over here all business. Told him I was not contracting the Police as long as it did not happen again. The person has not long moved to the island . If this person has to steal bread then to me he must be in some dire circumstance. Certainly don't think he is a worse person than me people can hit rock bottom . Paedophile , murderers is different. Specially made bread? Is It some sort of French style café in Port Bannatyne perhaps...just at the pier? Lovely sourdough, lovely sourdough indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 1 hour ago, TediousTom said: Specially made bread? Is It some sort of French style café in Port Bannatyne perhaps...just at the pier? Lovely sourdough, lovely sourdough indeed I'm on the front in Rothesay next to the ferry terminal. Have a blue owning . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insaintee Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: To me, it was comparing a baby to the chimps/monkeys that tourists pose with for pictures at certain holiday destinations. Is the child black? Personally, I would just see a child. Maybe those that see a black child, instead of just a child, should be the ones taking a look at themselves. I've not even seen a picture of the baby, so I don't know what tone of skin it has. I don't even know if the baby is male or female. Or am I not allowed to suppose that it is one or the other of those? I know two people, one is related to me, who have one black parent and one white parent - both call themselves half black (that's if the subject ever comes up, which isn't very often as nobody in their social circles gives a shit). Are you saying that they shouldn't regard themselves as that? It looks like your definition of black would mean that it doesn't matter how many black ancestors someone has, as long as they have one, they should be called black. How far back do you go? Grandparents? Great-grandparents? If someone has one black great-great-grandparent and fifteen white ones, are they, by your definition, black? If you want to go there, then we are all descended from sub-Saharan ancestors, so we are all black and you are accusing a black man of being racist against another black man. What about albino sub-Saharan Africans - are they black? What exactly is the definition of black that you are using? Why are you classing the baby as black in the first place? Megan, as far as I'm aware, had one black parent and one white parent. Why are you regarding her as black and not as white? How does she regard herself? Black, white, half black, half white, doesn't give a shit? Can't you even see how ridiculous your position is on this? It's people who insist on making the distinction in the first place that are the biggest cause of all of this sort of shit. Personally I see a person first and then, depending on the situation, I may or may not look at the other traits of the person. If I was looking for an employee, I wouldn't care if they were male/female, black/white, gay/straight or anything else, I would just care if they were the best person for the job. If I was looking for a sexual partner, then I, personally, would only look at females. If I was looking for an actor to play a slave in Confederate America then I would look for a black person. If I was looking for an actor to play a slave owner in Confederate America then I would look for a white person. Mostly, in day to day life, I just rely on "good guy" or "wank". I could go on, but this is long enough already. This certainly is too long and certainly not doing yourself any favours. I know dozens of people that have black and white parents some related to me, some not. and they all identify as Black. Just as my grandchildren are Scottish not half Scottish (that's not to say that they cant have other simultanious idenities) If the person identifies as black then yes it does not matter how far back the last black person was because identiy can not be atomised like that. How far back does someone have to have an ancestor born in Ireland before they're allowed to idenify as Irish. So if the child is half-black does that make Baker only half racist? An awful lot of what aboutery going on here. The fact is Megan is black that's how she identifies herself and that like it or not is part of the identiy of her child and it is not acceptable to compare it to a monkey. Good for you for seeing a person first but pretending you don't see race is not an excuse or get out clause for racially abusing someone. "Sorry your Honour, I did not know the person was black when I chucked bananas and made monkey noises." Edited May 17, 2019 by insaintee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 9 hours ago, oaksoft said: I think we can safely say that paedophiles, rapists, murderers, burglars and thieves are worse human beings than others. I am pretty confident that most of us on here are better than those types of people. Ah , it's not like you to totally miss the point , is it. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: Humans are animals, but not any better or worse than any other animal. You , can believe you're an animal if you wish , other ideas are available. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Slartibartfast said: 2 minutes ago, saintnextlifetime said: You , can believe you're an animal if you wish , other ideas are available. . Not any backed by any credible evidence. What credible evidence do you have . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted May 17, 2019 Report Share Posted May 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: 7 minutes ago, saintnextlifetime said: What credible evidence do you have . Biology, chemistry, anthropology ... You have simply named 3 subjects , what about credible evidence. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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