Big Boris, Our Prime Minister

[Bud the Baker]

13 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Not to millions of people receiving business grants, self employment payments and furlough payments it didn't.

Are you suggesting Javid would've acted differently?

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

Are you suggesting Javid would've acted differently?

None of us have any idea what Javid would have done. 

All that matters is that Sunak came in and he was responsible for that policy.

Edited May 28, 2020 by oaksoft

[Guest TPAFKATS]

None of us have any idea what Javid would have done. 
All that matters is that Sunak came in and he was responsible for that policy.

He was the chancellor who implemented it but he wasn't responsible. Whoever is running the government was responsible, usually the pm along with advice from others in cabinet. With this lot who knows though.

Oh, and UK was far from the first to introduce these measures.

[Bud the Baker]

3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

None of us have any idea what Javid would have done. 

All that matters is that Sunak came in and he was responsible for that policy.

Well we do, the reason Javid gave for resigning was that his autonomy to make decisions was being removed - if he'd stayed he would've done what BJ/DC told him to just like Sunak.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Bud the Baker

[oaksoft]

4 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

He was the chancellor who implemented it but he wasn't responsible. Whoever is running the government was responsible, usually the pm along with advice from others in cabinet. With this lot who knows though.

Oh, and UK was far from the first to introduce these measures.

You have proof of that or are you just guessing?

[oaksoft]

3 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Well we do, the reason Javid gave for resigning was that his autonomy to make decisions was being removed - if he'd stayed he would've done what BJ/DC told him to just like Sunak.

I don't remember Javid saying that.

I do remember him not wanting to give up his advisors.

[Bud the Baker]

50 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I don't remember Javid saying that.

I do remember him not wanting to give up his advisors.

The paragraph below is from his resignation letter to BJ in which he says that losing his advisors "clear and candid advice" is losing the "character and integrity that you would wish to be associated with" in other words his autonomy to make decisions....

Quote

While I am grateful for your continued trust and offer to
continue in this role, I regret that I could not accept the
conditions attached to the reappointment. It is crucial for the
effectiveness of government that you have people around you who
can give you clear and candid advice, as I have always sought to
do. I also believe that it is important as leaders to have
trusted teams that reflect the character and integrity that you
would wish to be associated with.

…….and again phrases like "ensure the Treasury as an institution retains as much credibility as possible" and "continue to play a central role in driving an economic agenda" were complaints about the autonomy of the office being removed.

Quote

I would urge you to ensure the Treasury as an institution
retains as much credibility as possible. The team there has
impressed me with the energy and intellect they have brought to
delivering the shifts in policy that I have led. They are among
the very best public servants we have and I hope they can
continue to play a central role in driving an economic agenda
that puts people and place at its heart.

Having independent advisors and having the autonomy to make your own decisions are one and the same!

https://www.lse.co.uk/news/text-former-uk-finance-minister-javids-resignation-letter-99c7dwe9gzpegb3.html

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

The paragraph below is from his resignation letter to BJ in which he says that losing his advisors "clear and candid advice" is losing the "character and integrity that you would wish to be associated with" in other words his autonomy to make decisions....

…….and again phrases like "ensure the Treasury as an institution retains as much credibility as possible" and "continue to play a central role in driving an economic agenda" were complaints about the autonomy of the office being removed.

Having independent advisors and having the autonomy to make your own decisions are one and the same!

https://www.lse.co.uk/news/text-former-uk-finance-minister-javids-resignation-letter-99c7dwe9gzpegb3.html

Those are not the same things at all.

 

[Bud the Baker]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Those are not the same things at all.

Ex-chancellor Javid disagreed that's why he resigned and that's what he said in his resignation letter, you're descending to bazlike pedantry.

[antrin]

16 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Ex-chancellor Javid disagreed that's why he resigned and that's what he said in his resignation letter, you're descending to bazlike pedantry.

That amused me and got me thinking...

More concise and perhaps precisely accurate... how about "bazantry"? 

I'm not sure it needs capitalisation.

example as used in a sentence:

"It was an interesting debate till it descended into bazantry."

"You could tell by the repetitive posts that it was all bazantic by that stage."

 

I hope this helps? 

[Bud the Baker]

3 minutes ago, antrin said:

That amused me and got me thinking...

More concise and perhaps precisely accurate... how about "bazantry"? 

I'm not sure it needs capitalisation.

example as used in a sentence:

"It was an interesting debate till it descended into bazantry."

"You could tell by the repetitive posts that it was all bazantic by that stage."

 

I hope this helps? 

Indeed it does antrin, indeed it does...

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

Ex-chancellor Javid disagreed that's why he resigned and that's what he said in his resignation letter, you're descending to bazlike pedantry.

I think you are reading what you want to read so I'll leave you to it.

I am no Baz BTW.

[FTOF]

1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

Ex-chancellor Javid disagreed that's why he resigned and that's what he said in his resignation letter, you're descending to bazlike pedantry.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/13/sajid-javid-resigns-as-chancellor-amid-boris-johnson-reshuffle

Indeed.

If someone can't work that out from this article, then I suggest that they have very little grasp on how politics work.

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by FTOF

[oaksoft]

2 minutes ago, FTOF said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/13/sajid-javid-resigns-as-chancellor-amid-boris-johnson-reshuffle

Indeed.

If someone can't work that out from this article, then I suggest that they have very little grasp on how politics work.

Ah the old schoolyard debating tactic number 11 - "if you don't agree with me, you must be an idiot". 

It's always nice to see a classic getting brought out from time to time.

There's another 14 of these beauties out there. I wonder how many you'll rely on over the coming days.

Edited May 29, 2020 by oaksoft

[St.Ricky]

8 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Ah the old schoolyard debating tactic number 11 - "if you don't agree with me, you must be an idiot". 

It's always nice to see a classic getting brought out from time to time.

There's another 14 of these beauties out there. I wonder how many you'll rely on over the coming days.

Has someone had the temerity to adopt your default approach? 

[smcc]

12 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Ah the old schoolyard debating tactic number 11 - "if you don't agree with me, you must be an idiot". 

It's always nice to see a classic getting brought out from time to time.

There's another 14 of these beauties out there. I wonder how many you'll rely on over the coming days.

Have you ever in your life admitted that you were wrong?

[FTOF]

14 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Ah the old schoolyard debating tactic number 11 - "if you don't agree with me, you must be an idiot". 

TBH most of your posts adopt that strategy, so no surprise that you're so familiar with it.

Anyway, failing to see what's in front of you doesn't make you an idiot. Just shows that you're capable of reading what you want to read, just like you accused BTB of doing.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by FTOF

[Guest TPAFKATS]

You have proof of that or are you just guessing?

Yes, it's how government works. If the chancellor was making these decisions on his own he'd be running the country. As a dictatorship.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I think you are reading what you want to read so I'll leave you to it.
I am no Baz BTW.

Since pedantry is to the fore in this part of the conversation should this not read
"I am no Baz BTW BtB"

Happy to help.

[BuddieinEK]

Have to say... The Furlough scheme extention and winding up is WAY beyond anything I had dared hope for.

[salmonbuddie]

Since pedantry is to the fore in this part of the conversation should this not read
"I am no Baz BTW BtB"

Happy to help.

A wee bit Bazantic imo.

[emoji846]

[oaksoft]

34 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Have to say... The Furlough scheme extention and winding up is WAY beyond anything I had dared hope for.

And my new favourite ever Chancellor, Sunak, has just announced a second payment in August for the self employed.

Honestly, this has been a first class response to the crisis from Sunak. I don't know what more I could have expected the government to do to help people out.

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:

16 hours ago, oaksoft said:

You have proof of that or are you just guessing?

Yes, it's how government works. If the chancellor was making these decisions on his own he'd be running the country. As a dictatorship.

I'm quite capable of fuguring out my own opinion on how governments work. Given that not a single one of us has ever worked in government I would say we should happily accept our differences.

Sunak has stepped up again to support the self employed. I don't particularly care if it's really him, Cummings or Donald Duck who is the brains behind this.

[oaksoft]

3 hours ago, smcc said:

Have you ever in your life admitted that you were wrong?

Plenty of times.

But crucially you really need a wee bit more intellectual rigour to your argument than "Duh! It's pure obvious innit maaaaan" to persuade me.

Edited May 29, 2020 by oaksoft

[Cookie Monster]

I'm quite capable of fuguring out my own opinion on how governments work. Given that not a single one of us has ever worked in government I would say we should happily accept our differences.
Sunak has stepped up again to support the self employed. I don't particularly care if it's really him, Cummings or Donald Duck who is the brains behind this.

Some self employed. [emoji6]