oaksoft Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Ice-tears said: Sturgeon is obsessed and is on a one person crusade to make it happen. If SNP lost again she would still harp on about it. If she wasn't so dislikeable she may have a chance! And people still overwhelmingly vote for her party election after election. If she wants to hold Indyref2, stands on that demand and receives 48 seats out of 59 then she has a mandate to get what she wants. If she loses Indyref2 and wants Indyref3 and people still vote for her party then she has an absolute mandate to go for that too. If people tire of it, they'll vote her out. All of this should be dictated by those living and working in Scotland and nobody else. This is how democracy works. Are you new to voting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 Sturgeon is obsessed and is on a one person crusade to make it happen. If SNP lost again she would still harp on about it. If she wasn't so dislikeable she may have a chance!"A one person crusade"? One person got the SNP got 48 seats?Of course the SNP would continue to campaign for independence if it lost again, that's kind of the point of the SNP. "Dislikeable"? Do you know her well, then?Don't let perceived personality sway you, look at promises made against delivered, judge them by actions, not words.Boris is still a bawbag, mind...[emoji846] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: And people still overwhelmingly vote for her party election after election. If she wants to hold Indyref2, stands on that demand and receives 48 seats out of 59 then she has a mandate to get what she wants. If she loses Indyref2 and wants Indyref3 and people still vote for her party then she has an absolute mandate to go for that too. If people tire of it, they'll vote her out. All of this should be dictated by those living and working in Scotland and nobody else. This is how democracy works. Are you new to voting? Correct. Regardless of your political beliefs or stance on independence, you cannot say that 45% of the public vote in the areas you are standing in and gaining 80% of the seats available to your party is not a mandate to an independence referendum but maintain that 42% of the public vote and 56% of available seats is a mandate to form a UK government. Either both are completely valid or neither is. Auld Maggie herself used to say when she was PM that any time Scotland return a majority of availablr SNP seats to Westminster, then they could feasibly put forward an indy case. Of course, she never believed it could ever happen so thought she was playing it absolutely safe. Again, in the aftermath of the first referendum, the very public line from the SNP was that when the vote was done, the will of the people in Scotland was to remain part of the UK and the issue was put to bed, thry were also clever to add that the issue was done unless something radical changed in the landscape. A huge (arguably the biggest) part of the remain campaign's tactic was to remind the voters in the run up to the first referendum that a vote to leave the UK was a vote to leave the EU too and Scotland would be out of both and cut adrift for several years and not receive subsidies it needs to survive. The only way to guarantee and safeguard EU status was to remain in the union. This safeguarded status is now on the verge of gone in under 6 years and campaign slogans during the first referendum like 'we will be equal partners' and 'lead us, don't leave us' we're just that, catchy slogans with zero substance. The question absolutely must be asked again and should be free to be asked at any point of choosing as long as the SNP remain the biggest party being sent to Westminster from Scotland. Edited December 14, 2019 by djchapsticks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted December 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted December 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted December 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 Socialist Worker Mob ????? Are they smelly unemployable runts still polluting our country ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 7 hours ago, delpierro said: 9 hours ago, faraway saint said: Exactly the type of Braveheart voter that makes me cringe. Maybe a racist, bigoted, misogynistic c**t appeals to you. I don't know anyone like that, thanks for asking. Away and wash yer kilt, assuming that's your attire of choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 1 hour ago, djchapsticks said: Correct. Regardless of your political beliefs or stance on independence, you cannot say that 45% of the public vote in the areas you are standing in and gaining 80% of the seats available to your party is not a mandate to an independence referendum but maintain that 42% of the public vote and 56% of available seats is a mandate to form a UK government. Either both are completely valid or neither is. Auld Maggie herself used to say when she was PM that any time Scotland return a majority of availablr SNP seats to Westminster, then they could feasibly put forward an indy case. Of course, she never believed it could ever happen so thought she was playing it absolutely safe. Again, in the aftermath of the first referendum, the very public line from the SNP was that when the vote was done, the will of the people in Scotland was to remain part of the UK and the issue was put to bed, thry were also clever to add that the issue was done unless something radical changed in the landscape. A huge (arguably the biggest) part of the remain campaign's tactic was to remind the voters in the run up to the first referendum that a vote to leave the UK was a vote to leave the EU too and Scotland would be out of both and cut adrift for several years and not receive subsidies it needs to survive. The only way to guarantee and safeguard EU status was to remain in the union. This safeguarded status is now on the verge of gone in under 6 years and campaign slogans during the first referendum like 'we will be equal partners' and 'lead us, don't leave us' we're just that, catchy slogans with zero substance. The question absolutely must be asked again and should be free to be asked at any point of choosing as long as the SNP remain the biggest party being sent to Westminster from Scotland. It'll be interesting to see what happens if Boris continues to say no to handing over that power. Even people who would vote No are saying that the SNP have won their mandate. I worry about how long it will take before the peaceful demonstrations start to turn ugly. Refusing to hand over this power simply isn't feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Ice-tears said: So being told the 1st referendum was a once in a generation vote was just a lie? Is Sturgeon going to have a 3rd vote if she loses a 2nd? Hopefully Boris continues to say no as is his right. The people of Scotland voted NO. What part of that do you or Sturgeon no understand? Did you just simply not bother reading my post? I'm not in the habit od either repeating myself or wasting my time. Edited December 14, 2019 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 Just now, Ice-tears said: Couldn't be bothered, bored me after first line to be honest. Then f**k off and stop wasting my time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ice-tears said: So being told the 1st referendum was a once in a generation vote was just a lie? Is Sturgeon going to have a 3rd vote if she loses a 2nd? Hopefully Boris continues to say no as is his right. The people of Scotland voted NO. What part of that do you or Sturgeon no understand? Similarly being told that the only way to remain in the EU was to vote No was a lie too........with Brexit happening the smart thing for all parties to do is hold a referendum now that everyone knows the political landscape for a decent period of time, the problem is that with the exception of SNP the parties are scared of the potential result. The SNP have nothing to lose as the worst that can happen is the status quo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 Ok i'll say it again... The people of Scotland did not vote NO. Pro unionists voted no. I'll never be a unionist and neither will a huge percentage of the Scottish population so our society will be divided no matter what. I want independence and the unionists don't, both sides will just have to deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, proudtobeabuddy said: Ok i'll say it again... The people of Scotland did not vote NO. Pro unionists voted no. I'll never be a unionist and neither will a huge percentage of the Scottish population so our society will be divided no matter what. I want independence and the unionists don't, both sides will just have to deal with it. No, you are quite wrong there. The people of Scotland very mich did say No in 2014, Voting No did not make these people any less a part of Scotland. We need to accept that and steer well clear of divisive language like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 Just now, oaksoft said: No, you are quite wrong there. The people of Scotland very mich did say No in 2014, Voting No did not make these people any less a part of Scotland. We need to accept that and steer well clear of divisive language like that. I'm not being divisive, some of the posts in this thread suggest that "Scotland" voted No, That suggests to me that the 45% of the population who are pro Independence, in these people's eyes, are somehow irrelevant and don't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted December 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, proudtobeabuddy said: Ok i'll say it again... The people of Scotland did not vote NO. Pro unionists voted no. I'll never be a unionist and neither will a huge percentage of the Scottish population so our society will be divided no matter what. I want independence and the unionists don't, both sides will just have to deal with it. We are all British Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Ice-tears said: Majority of people in Scotland who voted, voted No. Dress it up anyway u want. I'm not dressing it up. 45% voted Yes and haven't/won't be silenced as the coming weeks and months will prove. Edited December 14, 2019 by proudtobeabuddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 1 minute ago, shull said: We are all British I've never considered myself British, I'm Scottish. Just to clarify i'm not anti anything else... If i was English i'd call myself English not British. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, proudtobeabuddy said: I'm not being divisive, some of the posts in this thread suggest that "Scotland" voted No, That suggests to me that the 45% of the population who are pro Independence, in these people's eyes, are somehow irrelevant and don't matter. I don't think that's being suggested at all. What is clear that more voted no than yes, no group is more/less irrelevant. The relevance is the majority voted no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 1 minute ago, shull said: We are all British Well said Mr Paisley People up here are very much divided There's people who are ashamed to be Scottish and wished they were born the other side of the wall They support England instead of their birthplace and homeland in sport Anyone who disagrees Braveheart,Natsi and Jockistan are the key phrases they come out with Independence will never be allowed to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 7 minutes ago, proudtobeabuddy said: I'm not dressing it up. 45% voted Yes and haven't/won't be silenced as the coming weeks and months will prove. Silenced? What are you saying? Oh, the 55% have an equal say, just in case that slipped your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 1 minute ago, windae cleaner said: Well said Mr Paisley People up here are very much divided There's people who are ashamed to be Scottish and wished they were born the other side of the wall They support England instead of their birthplace and homeland in sport Anyone who disagrees Braveheart,Natsi and Jockistan are the key phrases they come out with Independence will never be allowed to happen What about only the "follow follow crowd, or "rich cnuts" phrases? Classy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 Just now, faraway saint said: Silenced? What are you saying? Oh, the 55% have an equal say, just in case that slipped your mind. This is true and if you can find a quote from me suggesting otherwise? They can do what they want in a free world but as i'm on the Yes side i can't really talk for them can i? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, proudtobeabuddy said: This is true and if you can find a quote from me suggesting otherwise? They can do what they want in a free world but as i'm on the Yes side i can't really talk for them can i? And who said you should be silenced, since you made that point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Silenced? What are you saying? Oh, the 55% have an equal say, just in case that slipped your mind. Oh and by silenced i mean the SNP, the various marches planned etc... i hope the good old BBC manage to have their cameras out on those days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted December 14, 2019 Report Share Posted December 14, 2019 Just now, faraway saint said: And who said you should be silenced, since you made that point? Well I think those saying we've had a referendum and we voted NO are hoping that will be that and it will all be happy families and it will all go away. Clearly it won't. I'm not suggesting your own personal preference either, i'm talking about those in general against another referendum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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