Big Boris, Our Prime Minister

[oaksoft]

15 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

I'm sure Cornwall can answer for himself. However... given that these guys are in this situation after 9 years of tory government choosing to vote for a tory PM to solve it seems a bit "Stockholm Syndrome"

In my experience, most people don't blame governments for their situation.

They recognise that shit happens, especially after the Crunch in 2008, and that it's their personal responsibility to do whatever it takes to get out of it. They vote for a party most likely to provide that help by running the economy as well as they can. There is only one party offering to be business friendly.

I think that is where a lot of you guys are struggling to understand how these people vote the way they do.

[oaksoft]

4 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

f**k knows where that link came from??? Try this one.

 

Sorry bud but any video with a title like that or the word "destroyed" in it deserves to be ignored.

[oaksoft]

10 hours ago, jaybee said:

So anyone who dislikes  Corbyn is a c=nt, other opinions not allowed, that reminds me of wee man wi a funny tach

It's not your opinion as much as the language you are using. If you want to be involved in the discussion, you can, for a start, f**k right off with phrases like "terrorist sympathiser" and "wee SNP bitch".

If you want to talk like that you can join shull in the ignore list.

[faraway saint]

5 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

It's not your opinion as much as the language you are using. If you want to be involved in the discussion, you can, for a start, f**k right off with phrases like "terrorist sympathiser" and "wee SNP bitch".

If you want to talk like that you can join shull in the ignore list.

He's already on my list. Haha

He struggles to get anyone engage with him at all TBH. 

Oops, wrong username. 🤪

Edited December 17, 2019 by faraway saint

[Guest TPAFKATS]

So anyone who dislikes  Corbyn is a c=nt, other opinions not allowed, that reminds me of wee man wi a funny tach

No, try again.

you've taken that beyond "dislike".  Corbyn is/was

1. communist?  More socialist and most of the policies he has put forward are actually the norm in not very radical EU countries such as Ireland
2. Defeatist?  Who knows what you are referring to there
3. IRA Sympathiser?  Maybe more a republican sympathiser who was happy to talk to the IRA, much in the way that Unionist John Major and realist Tony Blair did.  As Major said, it got to the point where you had to talk to the IRA.  It is those who are prepared to talk who end the killing and you don't get to the table without some empathy or some sympathy for the other side.

I feel able to offer that opinion as i am neither a Labour supporter nor a Corbyn fan, i just listened to what he has actually SAID as opposed to the media's version of it.
as for your Sturgeon comments, they kind of mark you out as a bitter, sexist C**t.  Nothing to do with disagreement and everything to do with the unpleasant way you choose to express yourself

Thanks, much more eloquent that I managed. I really couldn't be bothered.

[Cornwall_Saint]

18 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Whilst I disagree about the link between increased foodbanks being caused by need, I am not disagreeing with much of what you say. 

What I am saying is that relatively few people in the UK are affected by these things.

This article doesn’t give either of us a definite answer but it’s an interesting read nonetheless.

15 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

They have certainly not become the norm. The vast majority of all jobs are not like this.

Perhaps in some industries I would agree but they are not the norm in general. Also, many people like their flexibility. I don't particularly like these types of contracts either but let's not turn it into sonething it's not.

By the way, if you are looking for and expecting "fairness" (whatever that is) you are going to be repeatedly crushed by life.

There are no guarantees in life. My advice to anyone would be to identify what you want and go and do what needs to be done to get it. Sitting on your couch and wailing that Boris Johnson isn't personally fixing your life is just a waste of time. 

According to this source, there were around 168,000 people on a zero hours contract in 2010. The 2019 figure is 896,000.

That is an astronomical increase, and I don’t see it as a positive.

I don’t disagree with your last point - some (but not all) of us do have the opportunity to better things for ourselves.

[oaksoft]

53 minutes ago, salmonbuddie said:

Don't think they saw a 'need', faraway, more likely a way to maximise profits - I don't have a problem with companies maximising profits but not at the expense of their workers.

I'll accept that zero hours contracts work for some people - very few but they are still the best option for them - but it should be the individual's choice, not one foisted on them. Let's be clear, these are people who want to work, is it really unreasonable for them to have set hours/income if that's what they need?

If people don't like these contracts then they shouldn't take themf I there is that much profit running a business then go self employed.

If you lack skills to get a better job, go to college or uni.

Anything, and I do mean almost anything, is better than sitting at home whining about your lot in life.

No government will ever save you from your own attitude of dependency on others for your life outcomes.

Edited December 17, 2019 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

7 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

This article doesn’t give either of us a definite answer but it’s an interesting read nonetheless.

According to this source, there were around 168,000 people on a zero hours contract in 2010. The 2019 figure is 896,000.

That is an astronomical increase, and I don’t see it as a positive.

I don’t disagree with your last point - some (but not all) of us do have the opportunity to better things for ourselves.

We are still talking about a minority of people.

Let's home in here though on your last sentence because that is the heart of the issue.

Who exactly are you talking about when you say that some people don't have the opportunity to better things for themselves and how many of those people do you reckon there are in the UK?

Edited December 17, 2019 by oaksoft

[Cornwall_Saint]

3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

We are still talking about a minority of people.

Let's home in here though on your last sentence because that is the heart of the issue.

Who exactly are you talking about when you say that some people don't have the opportunity to better things for themselves and how many of those people do you reckon there are in the UK?

In many cases, the disabled. When I say disabled, I mean the ones who physically cannot work due to their condition.

PIP cuts - these people have no other means of increasing their income.

Bedroom Tax - In many cases some of these people require an extra bedroom. So as a result they suffer financially. (Except for Scotland thanks to the Scottish government). Indeed this is applicable to many others too who cannot move house or may need the spare room for whatever reason.

Ex-criminals - Granted in some cases it’s their own fault. For others they were just young and stupid at the time. In some cases, it may have been an accident, knocking someone over while driving, a punch up that ended up in manslaughter. The thing is, many employers take one look at your record and if there’s history you’re buggered. As I say in some cases it’s their own fault, I most certainly won’t defend most of them, but occasionally in others it was unfortunate.

Lifelong illnesses - perhaps same category as disabled, but those receiving treatment for cancer, dialysis and so on can’t exactly commit to working full time. Some may be able to use a special talent to garner some extra income (my own friend who died last year loved his photography and used it to his advantage), but often they are stuck with what they are given, and if it isn’t enough then tough, they have to accept that.

Numbers wise? Yeah it’s a minority, of course. I don’t see that as fine though, minority or not, they deserve to be treated better.

[salmonbuddie]

If people don't like these contracts then they shouldn't take themf I there is that much profit running a business then go self employed.
If you lack skills to get a better job, go to college or uni.
Anything, and I do mean almost anything, is better than sitting at home whining about your lot in life.
No government will ever save you from your own attitude of dependency on others for your life outcomes.

Are you really this dense or is it an act, I honestly can't make my mind up.

Whilst I appreciate the free lifestyle teachings of the guru oskster, and just so we're clear, I, personally, have never accepted, or would ever accept, a zero hours contract. I, personally, can understand that some people, for varying reasons, lack the wherewithal to do any of the things you describe. I, personally, do not sit at home whining about my lot in life. I, personally, have a well paid job giving me just about everything I need without having to choose between heat and food.

Your failure to understand empathy never ceases to amaze me.

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

59 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Sorry bud but any video with a title like that or the word "destroyed" in it deserves to be ignored.

Not following you Oaky. Genuinely.

The reason the video shouldn't be ignored is if for no other reason it reminds us that absolute f**kin morons like this walk amongst us.

It's moving pictures advert for independence. SNP should use it in their next Yes campaign.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Have they?
Isn't it because companies seen a need for these contracts, however they do or don't suit people, and would been in existence no mater what party were in power? 
Oh, on your council tax query, the rates were frozen for some years (10 years I fink) but are not now. (The last 3 years I believe)
Also quite considerable rises in some areas, higher than you're quoting down there in Engerland............

Budget negotiations between local authorities and the Scottish Government agreed a maximum that rates could go up by.

The final figure agreed was 4.79%.

But not all councils have decided to increase by the agreed maximum.

 

Some have opted to go for a rise of 3% instead.

Doesn't your internet access Scottish Council tax facts? 

Companies /employers have always seen a need for many things:-
Child labour
Not paying maternity pay
Or sick pay
No maximum working week
No minimum rest time between shifts
No enhanced pay for unsociable hours

Doesn't mean any government has to allow any of them.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

In my experience, most people don't blame governments for their situation.
They recognise that shit happens, especially after the Crunch in 2008, and that it's their personal responsibility to do whatever it takes to get out of it. They vote for a party most likely to provide that help by running the economy as well as they can. There is only one party offering to be business friendly.
I think that is where a lot of you guys are struggling to understand how these people vote the way they do.

You don't think there's a bit of a contradiction in claiming that folk don't blame governments, instead choosing to take personal responsibility - but vote still decide to vote for a government based on what one can best help them?

[faraway saint]

51 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

Companies /employers have always seen a need for many things:-
Child labour
Not paying maternity pay
Or sick pay
No maximum working week
No minimum rest time between shifts
No enhanced pay for unsociable hours

Doesn't mean any government has to allow any of them.
 

Oh my, you are a cheerful chap. 🤣

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

In many cases, the disabled. When I say disabled, I mean the ones who physically cannot work due to their condition.

PIP cuts - these people have no other means of increasing their income.

Bedroom Tax - In many cases some of these people require an extra bedroom. So as a result they suffer financially. (Except for Scotland thanks to the Scottish government). Indeed this is applicable to many others too who cannot move house or may need the spare room for whatever reason.

Ex-criminals - Granted in some cases it’s their own fault. For others they were just young and stupid at the time. In some cases, it may have been an accident, knocking someone over while driving, a punch up that ended up in manslaughter. The thing is, many employers take one look at your record and if there’s history you’re buggered. As I say in some cases it’s their own fault, I most certainly won’t defend most of them, but occasionally in others it was unfortunate.

Lifelong illnesses - perhaps same category as disabled, but those receiving treatment for cancer, dialysis and so on can’t exactly commit to working full time. Some may be able to use a special talent to garner some extra income (my own friend who died last year loved his photography and used it to his advantage), but often they are stuck with what they are given, and if it isn’t enough then tough, they have to accept that.

Numbers wise? Yeah it’s a minority, of course. I don’t see that as fine though, minority or not, they deserve to be treated better.

OK so that first sentence where people absolutely can't work at all is a vanishingly small number in terms of the UK population. I'm not defending any government on their record of looking after those people. Of course, not everyone on PIP is incapable of work. A huge number of them are and you need to take that into account.

I am unaware of PIP being cut. Are you talking about those wrongly having them completely removed and then having to go through the appeals courts to overturn the decision? Again this is a very small relative number and I'm not defending the government.

The same goes for the Bedroom Tax as regards disabled people.

Let's get one thing straight. I couldn't give a rat's arse about ex-criminals. You commit a crime, you go to jail. You commit a second crime, you don't get back out. Beyond the age of about 16 there's no such thing as "young and stupid" and as a society we need to stop excusing criminal behaviour and focus on the damage it causes to the lives of victims. You are talking about a mistaken punch resulting in manslaughter. That is someone's son or daughter or father gone permanently. There isn't a single sane person in this country who doesn't understand that a single punch can kill someone so this is an aggravating factor not a mitigating one. I would never hire an employee with a criminal record by the way. Not in a million years. These people are very lucky that society has people in it prepared to help them. There's no such thing as a genuinely reformed criminal. That behaviour will always be under the surface just waiting for the right circumstances to rear its ugly head. Once a thief always a thief. Once a murderer always a murderer. Did the London Bridge thing teach us nothing? Do the endless figures on re-offending rates teach us nothing? These people are lost to society.  Wow. You've really triggered me over this point.  

Same view on long term illness as with disability although I will say that I am a very strong advocate of those who fall into this category wanting to work, having the support to be able to do so. Not everyone in the situation you describe wants to sit at home with no hope.

At no point have I said this was fine. This was just a discussion about the actual numbers involved and how this related to people voting Tory.

Beyond the groups above who else are you talking about?

Edited December 17, 2019 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, salmonbuddie said:

 

 

Are you really this dense or is it an act, I honestly can't make my mind up.

Whilst I appreciate the free lifestyle teachings of the guru oskster, and just so we're clear, I, personally, have never accepted, or would ever accept, a zero hours contract. I, personally, can understand that some people, for varying reasons, lack the wherewithal to do any of the things you describe. I, personally, do not sit at home whining about my lot in life. I, personally, have a well paid job giving me just about everything I need without having to choose between heat and food.

Your failure to understand empathy never ceases to amaze me.

 

It's not about empathy FFS. It's about practical approaches to control your own life.

You know what makes zero difference to the lives of these people? The likes of you adopting the moral high ground, emoting at will, sobbing into your souffle and wringing your hands in a pique of patronising pity.

Calm yourself down. What a f**king state to get into. 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

Not following you Oaky. Genuinely.

The reason the video shouldn't be ignored is if for no other reason it reminds us that absolute f**kin morons like this walk amongst us.

It's moving pictures advert for independence. SNP should use it in their next Yes campaign.

The video I was responding to showed up wrongly in your post for some reason before reverting to the correct one.

Not sure what happened there.

 

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:

 

 

You don't think there's a bit of a contradiction in claiming that folk don't blame governments, instead choosing to take personal responsibility - but vote still decide to vote for a government based on what one can best help them?

 

No.

It's the difference between getting help and having everything handed to you through benefits.

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:

Companies /employers have always seen a need for many things:-
Child labour
Not paying maternity pay
Or sick pay
No maximum working week
No minimum rest time between shifts
No enhanced pay for unsociable hours

Doesn't mean any government has to allow any of them.
 

What a load of over generalised nonsense.

It's not 1800 anymore and not all companies are offering McJobs.

Most companies provide a range of employee benefits which go way beyond the legal minimum.

Way beyond. Why?

Because it's actually quite hard to recruit good employees so they have to offer competitive things.

I always find it funny when people who have never run a business feel qualified to speak so eloquently about how companies are run. 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

No.
It's the difference between getting help and having everything handed to you through benefits.

No, that's a different point altogether. Thanks for clarifying that's what you meant.

[oaksoft]

3 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

10 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

No.
It's the difference between getting help and having everything handed to you through benefits.

No, that's a different point altogether. Thanks for clarifying that's what you meant.

It's not a different point at all.

You are welcome.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

What a load of over generalised nonsense.
It's not 1800 anymore and not all companies are offering McJobs.
Most companies provide a range of employee benefits which go way beyond the legal minimum.
Way beyond. Why?
Because it's actually quite hard to recruit good employees so they have to offer competitive things.
I always find it funny when people who have never run a business feel qualified to speak so eloquently about how companies are run. [emoji38]

Thanks for jumping in with this pompous, self aggrandising shite.
Its not over generalised nonsense, my point is bosses have been forced to introduce emoyee welfare measures. If governments didn't make them do it they wouldn't have.
Anyone with a semblance of knowledge is aware of this, irrespective of whatever bonuses or Christmas lunches that might be offered.

[salmonbuddie]

It's not about empathy FFS. It's about practical approaches to control your own life.
You know what makes zero difference to the lives of these people? The likes of you adopting the moral high ground, emoting at will, sobbing into your souffle and wringing your hands in a pique of patronising pity.
Calm yourself down. What a f**king state to get into. [emoji38]
 

How would you know if it's about empathy or not, oaky, the entire concept's alien to you?

As usual you resort to name calling in an attempt to deflect, it's a tired tactic and everyone sees it for what it is, your equivalent of conceding the argument by going all ad hominem.

Do you know what does make a difference to the lives of "these people"? Me getting off my arse and doing practical things to help. By doing that, I get to understand what they've been through and what they're going through.

I'll finish with a quote that did the rounds during the GE campaign:

“When you’re not doing so well, vote for a better life for yourself.

If you are doing quite nicely, vote for a better life for others”

It’s socialism, it’s humanity, it’s not being a c**t. I think we all know which of those boxes you can tick.

[Cornwall_Saint]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

OK so that first sentence where people absolutely can't work at all is a vanishingly small number in terms of the UK population. I'm not defending any government on their record of looking after those people. Of course, not everyone on PIP is incapable of work. A huge number of them are and you need to take that into account.

I am unaware of PIP being cut. Are you talking about those wrongly having them completely removed and then having to go through the appeals courts to overturn the decision? Again this is a very small relative number and I'm not defending the government.

The same goes for the Bedroom Tax as regards disabled people.

Let's get one thing straight. I couldn't give a rat's arse about ex-criminals. You commit a crime, you go to jail. You commit a second crime, you don't get back out. Beyond the age of about 16 there's no such thing as "young and stupid" and as a society we need to stop excusing criminal behaviour and focus on the damage it causes to the lives of victims. You are talking about a mistaken punch resulting in manslaughter. That is someone's son or daughter or father gone permanently. There isn't a single sane person in this country who doesn't understand that a single punch can kill someone so this is an aggravating factor not a mitigating one. I would never hire an employee with a criminal record by the way. Not in a million years. These people are very lucky that society has people in it prepared to help them. There's no such thing as a genuinely reformed criminal. That behaviour will always be under the surface just waiting for the right circumstances to rear its ugly head. Once a thief always a thief. Once a murderer always a murderer. Did the London Bridge thing teach us nothing? Do the endless figures on re-offending rates teach us nothing? These people are lost to society.  Wow. You've really triggered me over this point.  

Same view on long term illness as with disability although I will say that I am a very strong advocate of those who fall into this category wanting to work, having the support to be able to do so. Not everyone in the situation you describe wants to sit at home with no hope.

At no point have I said this was fine. This was just a discussion about the actual numbers involved and how this related to people voting Tory.

Beyond the groups above who else are you talking about?

I know that not everyone on PIP is unable to work - I work alongside some people who are indeed PIP claimants.

Cuts to PIP

Cuts to PIP2

Cuts to PIP - The MS 20 metre rule

I admire the rant on ex-cons (and as I said the majority are indeed blameful for their own troubles) but mentioning London Bridge - wasn't one of the guys who stopped the assailant an ex-murderer himself?

I won’t disagree on the long term disability - if they want to work then I agree, help them do it. Each case is individual.

I understand it’s a small minority of people, but I believe the numbers are higher than you think. I was guilty of this myself until recently. The job I’m in now had opened my eyes massively to the scale of it, and it’s not even really the main part of the job itself.

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:

 If governments didn't make them do it they wouldn't have.
 

Over-generalised nonsense.