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Summer Signing Targets

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10 hours ago, antrin said:

What about it being a Paisley club?  Why not try to employ people from the Paisley area?

I say that rather than look to employ cheap labour from relatively impoverished overseas countries to do the jobs that I thought the youth  and academy scheme were meant to fill.

 

I obviously like Popescu and Hladky, but...

I hardly imaging they are playing for cheap labour unless that was a tongue in cheek comment.

We already have the latest batch from the youths in and around the first team (Erhahon, MacPherson, Magennis etc) and plenty of recruitment at that level i am sure will be still ongoing through Allan McManus and his coaches to unearth the next gem. They have to be ready though.

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2 hours ago, Kemp said:

I know you are disillusioned with the Labour party, but there is no need to go full card-carrying swivel-eyed Brexiteer on us...

That would never be me.

We should always look to have 3 or 4 academy players in the team, playing alongside top quality experienced professionals. We are more likely to get those quality experienced professionals from overseas.

 

2 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

Probably because it's not 1972 anymore. 

Precisely my point, DJC..

I guess I was waffling and not wanting to brutally point out how Hladky and Popescu are examples of a business exploiting cheap labour sources, in order to not hire and train locals at a living wage.

there are rules to protect Brits in employment from having their wages undercut by such nefarious practices as bringing in cheap labour from overseas.  Fitbit utilises slack loopholes in employment law.

In the 1970s, Coats, Patons simply built factories around the world using and employing cheap labour, to avoid paying real wages to Buddies in the factories that gave birth to that massively successful organisation.  Then it shut Paisley down and made 7,000 workers unemployed.

St Mirren is exploiting cheap labour.   Nice.

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1 minute ago, antrin said:

 

Precisely my point, DJC..

I guess I was waffling and not wanting to brutally point out how Hladky and Popescu are examples of a business exploiting cheap labour sources, in order to not hire and train locals at a living wage.

there are rules to protect Brits in employment from having their wages undercut by such nefarious practices as bringing in cheap labour from overseas.  Fitbit utilises slack loopholes in employment law.

In the 1970s, Coats, Patons simply built factories around the world using and employing cheap labour, to avoid paying real wages to Buddies in the factories that gave birth to that massively successful organisation.  Then it shut Paisley down and made 7,000 workers unemployed.

St Mirren is exploiting cheap labour.   Nice.

Have you been bitten by one of the forum zoomers? 

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15 minutes ago, kevo_smfc said:

I hardly imaging they are playing for cheap labour unless that was a tongue in cheek comment.

We already have the latest batch from the youths in and around the first team (Erhahon, MacPherson, Magennis etc) and plenty of recruitment at that level i am sure will be still ongoing through Allan McManus and his coaches to unearth the next gem. They have to be ready though.

 

4 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Have you been bitten by one of the forum zoomers? 

Mibbe I’m being a wee bit devilshly advocating, here....

...but I am always seriously proud that the last all-Scottish club to win the Scottish Cup was a Paisley one.

 

I am also proud of the StMirren academy’s products in recent years.

I’m not so easily seduced by a new fixation on Eastern Europeans , cos they’re the only players Saints can afford.

Edited by antrin

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26 minutes ago, antrin said:

 

Mibbe I’m being a wee bit devilshly advocating, here....

...but I am always seriously proud that the last all-Scottish club to win the Scottish Cup was a Paisley one.

 

I am also proud of the StMirren academy’s products in recent years.

I’m not so easily seduced by a new fixation on Eastern Europeans , cos they’re the only players Saints can afford.

As am i.

I am also proud of our youth academy and the players we are bringing through. John McGinn for example was a long-term developed player from an early age, whereas Kyle McAllister came through via Rangers when he was around 15/16.

You have to find a market of ready made players that are within your budget for the first team. It's been well documented that up here, clubs struggle to compete with some National League clubs in England.

You surely cannot deny the signings in the last window from overseas was a success? 

 

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1 hour ago, antrin said:

 

Precisely my point, DJC..

I guess I was waffling and not wanting to brutally point out how Hladky and Popescu are examples of a business exploiting cheap labour sources, in order to not hire and train locals at a living wage.

there are rules to protect Brits in employment from having their wages undercut by such nefarious practices as bringing in cheap labour from overseas.  Fitbit utilises slack loopholes in employment law.

In the 1970s, Coats, Patons simply built factories around the world using and employing cheap labour, to avoid paying real wages to Buddies in the factories that gave birth to that massively successful organisation.  Then it shut Paisley down and made 7,000 workers unemployed.

St Mirren is exploiting cheap labour.   Nice.

Evidence of this? From what was reported before he singed, Popescu is on €4,000 per month at Dinamo Bucharest and we are covering the entirety of that. A very healthy wage indeed by any standards.

So what is exploitative about that?

Should we be giving that 4k a month to a couple of neds from Feegie who can't spell 'football' much less play it? :lol: 

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1 hour ago, antrin said:

In the 1970s, Coats, Patons simply built factories around the world using and employing cheap labour, to avoid paying real wages to Buddies in the factories that gave birth to that massively successful organisation.  Then it shut Paisley down and made 7,000 workers unemployed

Clarks opened their first overseas mill in the eastern US in 1864. Coats followed suit and by 1890 were well entrenched in the US. Before the Great War they had opened in Spain and California and were preparing to open in many other parts of the world.

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1 hour ago, kevo_smfc said:

You surely cannot deny the signings in the last window from overseas was a success? 

 

Where have I suggested they were NOT a success?

21 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Evidence of this? From what was reported before he singed, Popescu is on €4,000 per month at Dinamo Bucharest and we are covering the entirety of that. A very healthy wage indeed by any standards.

So what is exploitative about that?

Should we be giving that 4k a month to a couple of neds from Feegie who can't spell 'football' much less play it? :lol: 

That 4k a month would indeed be better invested in a local yoof.  I don't care how illiterate they may be - but you don't need to spell to be able to play fitba well.  cf Paul Gascoigne.

Your unfounded prejudice against Fegs is showing, there.

9 minutes ago, rabuddies said:

Clarks opened their first overseas mill in the eastern US in 1864. Coats followed suit and by 1890 were well entrenched in the US. Before the Great War they had opened in Spain and California and were preparing to open in many other parts of the world.

As the first person in my  family - older, younger, cousins Aunties, Uncles, Grannies Grmapas, Mother Faither - to not work in the Mills, I don't think you can teach me much about the history.

An Uncle opened factories in Venezuela and a cousin did similar in Portugal, and the Philippines.

In the 70's the work done in Paisley Mills was sent overseas to avoid paying wages at Paisley Standards. Anchor and Feegie mill-folk were dumped.

 

I was at Rootes.  My first wage as an Apprentice was more than my Faither's in Anchor.  Paisley labour costs increased.  The Mills reacted to that by shifting the work abroad.

Edited by antrin

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30 minutes ago, antrin said:

Where have I suggested they were NOT a success?

That 4k a month would indeed be better invested in a local yoof.  I don't care how illiterate they may be - but you don't need to spell to be able to play fitba well.  cf Paul Gascoigne.

Your unfounded prejudice against Fegs is showing, there.

 

That wasn't your point though. Your point is that we are somehow bringing people from abroad on the cheap and explitiong them. Blatantly not true. 

Also, I make no apologies. I spent the first 18 years or my life in Bankfoot Road, a street the taxis wouldn't even go down in the late 90s and early 2000s. I'm more than founded in my opinion and qualified to offer up said opinion of the area. 

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2 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

That wasn't your point though. Your point is that we are somehow bringing people from abroad on the cheap and explitiong them. Blatantly not true. 

I must presume that your "Blatantly not true. " applies to your two preceding sentences.

My words were, "examples of a business exploiting cheap labour sources", NOT exploiting cheap  labour, not exploiting Popescu or Hladky.  I never suggested that.  

They are good players, good signings, and they'd appreciate the wages Saints offered, obviously - but for that Money you couldn't get that quality of player in the UK.  I understand why it was done and appreciate the job they did in the circumstances.  I don't have to like it.

Also, I make no apologies. I spent the first 18 years or my life in Bankfoot Road, a street the taxis wouldn't even go down in the late 90s and early 2000s. I'm more than founded in my opinion and qualified to offer up said opinion of the area. 

I sought no apologies.  I was stating that a blanket prejudice against young people from any area is simply crude.

 

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14 hours ago, Big Yards said:

Get Popescu signed and build the team around him. Get Muzek signed, Get Hodson signed. Mackenzie on a 6 month contract with extension clause if he plays a certain number of games. Keep Hladky. 

Then sign another Romanian centre half   (we will have 3 plus Muzek already) as well as a one Romanian and one Dutch van Baston-esk like strikers, Czech attacking mid and a Haitian  Hungarian defensive mid

FIFY

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4 hours ago, kevo_smfc said:

I hardly imaging they are playing for cheap labour unless that was a tongue in cheek comment.

We already have the latest batch from the youths in and around the first team (Erhahon, MacPherson, Magennis etc) and plenty of recruitment at that level i am sure will be still ongoing through Allan McManus and his coaches to unearth the next gem. They have to be ready though.

They do have to be ready for a chance - but it is difficult to step up instantly. So unless they are exceptional, that means either going out on loan to a higher level that Reserve football or gradually picking up 1st team experience in small bursts . .. 

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On 5/30/2019 at 11:17 PM, antrin said:

What about it being a Paisley club?  Why not try to employ people from the Paisley area?

I say that rather than look to employ cheap labour from relatively impoverished overseas countries to do the jobs that I thought the youth and academy scheme were meant to fill.

You're right and they are. 

Erhahon played more games than all 4 European lads (despite a suspension and at least 1 injury I can think of)

Cammy MacPherson played 1 less than Musek and a handful less than MH and Hladky, he suffered from at least 2 injury spells or he would've featured more i'm sure

Fellow academy graduate Jack Baird had the joint 2nd most appearances this year and is now the longest continuous servant at the club

Kyle Magennis suffered from 2 long term injuries, despite this he came back and played more games than Musek and Corbu. Hladky and Popescu were fully fit from January-May and played only a handful more games than Kyle

I am big fans of the Eastern European boys too but your point makes no sense and I can only assume is a windup attempt, you can't buy experience as they say - these foreign boys already have experience and to be fair to them all 4 could play and offered a different dynamic to our squad.

We have more products of the SMFC Youth Academy in the squad than "cheap labour from relatively impoverished overseas countries"...

 

 

Edited by W6Saint

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16 hours ago, antrin said:

 

Mibbe I’m being a wee bit devilshly advocating, here....

...but I am always seriously proud that the last all-Scottish club to win the Scottish Cup was a Paisley one.

 

I am also proud of the StMirren academy’s products in recent years.

I’m not so easily seduced by a new fixation on Eastern Europeans , cos they’re the only players Saints can afford.

And here's me thinking the dinosaurs died out a while ago. 🤣

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Here’s what you were replying to, W6Saint:

“I say that rather than look to employ cheap labour from relatively impoverished overseas countries to do the jobs that I thought the youth and academy scheme were meant to fill.“

it is about the future.

“Rather than look to”  - there’s the clue. :) 

4 hours ago, W6Saint said:

You're right and they are. 

Erhahon played more games than all 4 European lads (despite a suspension and at least 1 injury I can think of)

Cammy MacPherson played 1 less than Musek and a handful less than MH and Hladky, he suffered from at least 2 injury spells or he would've featured more i'm sure

Fellow academy graduate Jack Baird had the joint 2nd most appearances this year and is now the longest continuous servant at the clubhouse 

Kyle Magennis suffered from 2 long term injuries, despite this he came back and played more games than Musek and Corbu. Hladky and Popescu were fully fit from January-May and played only a handful more games than Kyle

I am big fans of the Eastern European boys too but your point makes no sense and I can only assume is a windup attempt, you can't buy experience as they say - these foreign boys already have experience and to be fair to them all 4 could play and offered a different dynamic to our squad.

We have more products of the SMFC Youth Academy in the squad than "cheap labour from relatively impoverished overseas countries"...

You should read a post before you twist your knickers.

i have been a Hladky fan on here since his early games, but I was offering a clear opinion - my preference for home-grown.

 

 I  clearly didn’t need your update, your history lesson, but well done, you - thank you for  actually repeating my observation!

Long may there be more products from the Academy, than buy-ins from abroad.

 

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20 hours ago, antrin said:

Mibbe I’m being a wee bit devilshly advocating, here....

...but I am always seriously proud that the last all-Scottish club to win the Scottish Cup was a Paisley one.

I am also proud of the StMirren academy’s products in recent years.

I’m not so easily seduced by a new fixation on Eastern Europeans , cos they’re the only players Saints can afford.

 

4 hours ago, oaksoft said:

And here's me thinking the dinosaurs died out a while ago. 🤣

So you think progress would be abandoning the development of young local talent in favour of rent-a-professional?

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5 hours ago, antrin said:

Here’s what you were replying to, W6Saint:

“I say that rather than look to employ cheap labour from relatively impoverished overseas countries to do the jobs that I thought the youth and academy scheme were meant to fill.“

it is about the future.

“Rather than look to”  - there’s the clue. :) 

You should read a post before you twist your knickers.

i have been a Hladky fan on here since his early games, but I was offering a clear opinion - my preference for home-grown.

 

 I  clearly didn’t need your update, your history lesson, but well done, you - thank you for  actually repeating my observation!

Long may there be more products from the Academy, than buy-ins from abroad.

 

I did...

Your point makes no sense Seargant Backtrack. 

Why would we need to look to the future when we're already achieving this?

 

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On ‎5‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 10:03 AM, antrin said:

 

Precisely my point, DJC..

I guess I was waffling and not wanting to brutally point out how Hladky and Popescu are examples of a business exploiting cheap labour sources, in order to not hire and train locals at a living wage.

there are rules to protect Brits in employment from having their wages undercut by such nefarious practices as bringing in cheap labour from overseas.  Fitbit utilises slack loopholes in employment law.

In the 1970s, Coats, Patons simply built factories around the world using and employing cheap labour, to avoid paying real wages to Buddies in the factories that gave birth to that massively successful organisation.  Then it shut Paisley down and made 7,000 workers unemployed.

St Mirren is exploiting cheap labour.   Nice.

Those rules are very easily circumvented and are by many employers. Not to go into too much detail but it's to do with operating agencies in the foreign countries.

As for football. The thing that's attracting these better players to smaller clubs is the exposure to bigger clubs. We will always try to bring through our youth but until our business ethos is such that we are brave enough to tie lads with potential to real long term contracts BEFORE the rest of the world realises they have potential we'll probably get more financial gain from a good scouting system.

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7 hours ago, antrin said:

 

So you think progress would be abandoning the development of young local talent in favour of rent-a-professional?

You will of course be able to point me to a posts where I made this claim.

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1 hour ago, W6Saint said:

I did...

Your point makes no sense Seargant Backtrack. 

Why would we need to look to the future when we're already achieving this?

 

Sigh...

there is no backtracking.  I spoke of the future yet YOU are harping on about a past of which I am all too aware!

You need to KEEP looking to the future because it’s all too easy to take your eye off the ball.

(fabulously mixed metaphor, there.  Makes me proud!)

Already I see posts on here clamouring for Saints to splurge £350,000 on Popescu!

And calls to look for more like him and Hladky.

Whereas I would prefer more of McGinn and the two Kyles.

and I’d also prefer to see daft money like £350k spent on yoof.

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