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St.Ricky

Players Leaving

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7 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Gardening leave means you are still an employee, on the payroll get your pension contributions and bonuses etc. He has agreed a deal based on the two remaining years of his contract. What would you go for in his shoes knowing its unlikely any club is bursting down the door to sign you?

it will be over a year's wages, otherwise he would be better off just sitting tight!

Can't rate himself very well then. 

 

 

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Just now, mattman said:

I know, was being sarcastic. 

Glad this sagas put to bed, and hopefully lessons learned!

I kniw you was, i was too.

i am glad its done for both club and player. People just need to be realistic as to what was agreed. Somehow dpsome of us believe we can sign great players for peanuts, and that playets we have frozen out will walk with a pittance!

just put yourself in the players shoes, knowing what you are entitled to, and the likelihood, or mot of getting another club?

what would you accept?

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2 minutes ago, linwood buddie said:

You said two years and then a percentage and then one year ,so my post on it is just as realistic as any of your ones ,is it not?

No.

its totally unrealistic to suggest he would go for a fraction of what he's due knowing he might not get another club. 

Ask yourself, in his predicament what would you accept? 

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5 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

I can tell you as someone who has negotiated and terminated thosands of contracts people (let alone professional footballers) do not walk for 30-50% of what they are entitled to. Unless they are going to something even better they do not want to miss out on.

i would suggest this isnt Heaton's reality!

 

5 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

I can tell you as someone who has negotiated and terminated thosands of contracts people (let alone professional footballers) do not walk for 30-50% of what they are entitled to. Unless they are going to something even better they do not want to miss out on.

i would suggest this isnt Heaton's reality!

Maybe he's decided on a different career that's more suited to him. 

Anyway that's  percentage I was told from someone who works in professional football.  I'm sure that will differ depending upon circumstances and agents.

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Just now, munoz said:

 

Maybe he's decided on a different career that's more suited to him. 

Anyway that's  percentage I was told from someone who works in professional football.  I'm sure that will differ depending upon circumstances and agents.

I could accept say the likes of Hippolyte going for that sort of deal as he was walking straight into another decent paid job. I doubt given how Heaton feels he's been treated, and if he still has a future in pro football or not, if he would go for anything so low.

I wouldnt, would you?

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3 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

I kniw you was, i was too.

i am glad its done for both club and player. People just need to be realistic as to what was agreed. Somehow dpsome of us believe we can sign great players for peanuts, and that playets we have frozen out will walk with a pittance!

just put yourself in the players shoes, knowing what you are entitled to, and the likelihood, or mot of getting another club?

what would you accept?

Sit on my contract, living off my meager wages, away from home. Still end up no better off and out of a job by the end of it.

Think I know what I would choose. Take a nice lump sum and look for a new job while I still have money in my pocket. 

 

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32 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

What like 99%

same question to you. If you were in his shoes, with little chance of getting a club, what would you take to walk?

CAN YOU EVER GIVE IT A REST - YOU SAID YOUR USUAL CRAP ON THIS ONCE... WHY the need to repeat it 100 more times ?

I get that you just ignore other people's perspectives on this, because that is what you always do - but give it a rest - you are the broken record of made up nonsense ALL the TIME...BLAH BLAH BLAH

THERE is no way he walks away on full pay or anything near 99%... no matter how many times you assert he will . . . :hammer

A space in the squad freed up for JG and another wage off the wage bill . . .

Edited by Sweeper07
typo

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46 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

What like 99%

same question to you. If you were in his shoes, with little chance of getting a club, what would you take to walk?

If it's the full whack, then where is the benefit to the club? some savings on pension contributions and NI. Doubt that would be enough for me to want to front load that debt. There is also statutory redundancy legislation which would mean a minimum of 6 months. And of course there could be a early termination clause in his contract. 

Most likely a year could be less, unlikely to be more. We will never know.  But do keep guessing 

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39 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

I could accept say the likes of Hippolyte going for that sort of deal as he was walking straight into another decent paid job. I doubt given how Heaton feels he's been treated, and if he still has a future in pro football or not, if he would go for anything so low.

I wouldnt, would you?

There are a number of ways the club can make things very difficult for the player, e.g. withdrawing benefits like lodgings and cars but still expect the player to turn up to training and then fine him (suspend him)  if he doesn't. Not a good route to go down, but I know clubs that have done that before.  Also Josh's wage will have included at least some appearance clauses, so with only two to his name I doubt he'd be getting anything like the wage some on here imagine.  And of course no win bonuses. 

If the player does not want to be here and we don't want to have him, I doubt the negotiations were hard. Particularly if there was a termination clause in the contract.  

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5 minutes ago, insaintee said:

There are a number of ways the club can make things very difficult for the player, e.g. withdrawing benefits like lodgings and cars but still expect the player to turn up to training and then fine him (suspend him)  if he doesn't. Not a good route to go down, but I know clubs that have done that before.  Also Josh's wage will have included at least some appearance clauses, so with only two to his name I doubt he'd be getting anything like the wage some on here imagine.  And of course no win bonuses. 

If the player does not want to be here and we don't want to have him, I doubt the negotiations were hard. Particularly if there was a termination clause in the contract.  

For chairman and club you talking about. 

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Nah, cant see that scenario tbh. Usually offered 30%-50% of contract owed from what I've heard. Absolutely no use to the player training with the under 18s for the next 2 years. If he wants any kind of career,  he must have realised it's time to move.
I expect it's more like the above than 2yrs wages. Of he stayed and sat out the mext 2yrs and collected his full salary, while training with the juniors, no other club would come near him again. Much more chance if he cuts a deal, for much less, and moves on.

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1 minute ago, insaintee said:

There are a number of ways the club can make things very difficult for the player, e.g. withdrawing benefits like lodgings and cars but still expect the player to turn up to training and then fine him (suspend him)  if he doesn't. Not a good route to go down, but I know clubs that have done that before.  Also Josh's wage will have included at least some appearance clauses, so with only two to his name I doubt he'd be getting anything like the wage some on here imagine.  And of course no win bonuses. 

If the player does not want to be here and we don't want to have him, I doubt the negotiations were hard. Particularly if there was a termination clause in the contract.  

I dont think it would have taken long to negotiate either. Club would open with ridiculously low offer, agent laughs says more like the full two years then eventually they agree a sum. I cant think what player or agent would agree to a termination clause in the highly unstable career of pro football at this level?

sure an amount if offered by another club to trigger transfer discussions but why a termination clause? Would you sign one?

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59 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

I can tell you as someone who has negotiated and terminated thosands of contracts people (let alone professional footballers) do not walk for 30-50% of what they are entitled to. Unless they are going to something even better they do not want to miss out on.

i would suggest this isnt Heaton's reality!

Yes they do. If I got offered a package to go and there were as a year on the table verses ten years to retirement (with pension) then I'd seriously consider it. If was two years I'd bite their hand off. Remember that pay offs are tax free as well as free of pension and NI libilities, so the player can afford to take @30% cut straight off with no loss what so ever. 

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Just now, Lord Pityme said:

I dont think it would have taken long to negotiate either. Club would open with ridiculously low offer, agent laughs says more like the full two years then eventually they agree a sum. I cant think what player or agent would agree to a termination clause in the highly unstable career of pro football at this level?

sure an amount if offered by another club to trigger transfer discussions but why a termination clause? Would you sign one?

normal practice mate, I assume that there isn't one rule for say BBC Radio Presenters and another for Professional footballers.

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4 minutes ago, pod said:

For chairman and club you talking about. 

Nope not a good route for either. People notice these things, and they can end up in court which means everybody looses except the QCs

Edited by insaintee

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I could accept say the likes of Hippolyte going for that sort of deal as he was walking straight into another decent paid job. I doubt given how Heaton feels he's been treated, and if he still has a future in pro football or not, if he would go for anything so low.
I wouldnt, would you?
Depends on how depressed he is at not getting near the 1st team squad and training with our juniors. Not sure its great fun being shunned by everyone at your employers. Every day.
Money is great but it is not everything.

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Yes they do. If I got offered a package to go and there were as a year on the table verses ten years to retirement (with pension) then I'd seriously consider it. If was two years I'd bite their hand off. Remember that pay offs are tax free as well as free of pension and NI libilities, so the player can afford to take @30% cut straight off with no loss what so ever. 
Think payoffs are tax free up to £30k.

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1 hour ago, munoz said:

Nah, cant see that scenario tbh. Usually offered 30%-50% of contract owed from what I've heard. Absolutely no use to the player training with the under 18s for the next 2 years. If he wants any kind of career,  he must have realised it's time to move.

Reasonable shout.

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1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

He will have gone with more than a year's wages. Given he hasnt kicked a ball for months and is about attractive to other clubs as Joey Barton, why would he go for less. He can sit on the training field on his tod for two more years and still get well paid.

ffs start accepting reality bud.

If hes gone with a years wages we have just saved ourselves the equivalent - seems like sensible business all round given he was never going to feature. Lunacy signing of the highest order.

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Just now, turrabuddie said:
6 minutes ago, insaintee said:
Yes they do. If I got offered a package to go and there were as a year on the table verses ten years to retirement (with pension) then I'd seriously consider it. If was two years I'd bite their hand off. Remember that pay offs are tax free as well as free of pension and NI libilities, so the player can afford to take @30% cut straight off with no loss what so ever. 

Think payoffs are tax free up to £30k.

 

2 minutes ago, turrabuddie said:
8 minutes ago, insaintee said:

 

 

And the rest goes into your pension fund.  (Although perhaps not for Josh)

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12 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

If hes gone with a years wages we have just saved ourselves the equivalent - seems like sensible business all round given he was never going to feature. Lunacy signing of the highest order.

Are you okay now ? Did you have a wee nap after your earlier tantrum ? 

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1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:
2 hours ago, munoz said:

Usually a percentage of his contract.

What like 99%

same question to you. If you were in his shoes, with little chance of getting a club, what would you take to walk?

it seems to me that the lad is arrogant enough to think he can have both, I think he will have accepted a proportion, don't know what! but I can surmise it isn't what he could expect in total had he stayed  ...... otherwise why would we offer a deal?

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1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:
1 hour ago, munoz said:

Nah, cant see that scenario tbh. Usually offered 30%-50% of contract owed from what I've heard. Absolutely no use to the player training with the under 18s for the next 2 years. If he wants any kind of career,  he must have realised it's time to move.

I can tell you as someone who has negotiated and terminated thosands of contracts people (let alone professional footballers) do not walk for 30-50% of what they are entitled to. Unless they are going to something even better they do not want to miss out on.

i would suggest this isnt Heaton's reality!

Might I suggest most people realising you were involved wouldn't be walking they would be running.  😎

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