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Why has the Director of Football failed?


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Guest TPAFKATS



There's always uncertainties about the quality of players a club like Saints can sign ultimately it comes down to the amount of money the BoD (effectively GLS atm) - if you look back at 2016/17 (Great Escape Mk. 1) you'll see the wage bill was significantly higher than the previous season (which also included a management pay-off) and I suspect this years report (2018/19) will be interesting although with the club being in a different division a like-for-like comparison with the previous season isn't relevant,
We should have had two lists ready for the DoF/Manager to work on after the play-offs in May and we should have already made preliminary  enquiries beforehand. I still think we didn't have enough quality players, bedded into the team to assume we should have qualified for the knockout stages of the LC and that arguing otherwise is the same sort of arrogance some Aberdeen fans showed yesterday in the aftermath of our game - that even using squad players to freshen up a team who had played midweek and were missing their main striker should still have been good enough to beat us.
As [mention=1218]kevo_smfc[/mention] says deals often take awhile to complete these days, all the more reason for the DoF to get started early, as I said above it comes down to the money that GLS is prepared to sanction and had the 2 year deals (3 for McAllister) we've seen since JG arrived were being offered earlier on in the window I'm sure we could've completed deals in time for the LC.
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I listened to the same BBC report [mention=8643]bazil85[/mention] did and interpreted it as GLS trying to bluff us that it had been the plan all along. :rolleyes: It's clear that the DoF role as described by GLS last autumn didn't worked this summer.


Can you evidence how, where or why "it's clear that the DoF role has failed this summer" , particularly when there is still around 2 or 3 weeks of the summer transfer window remaining.
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33 minutes ago, antrin said:

You’re right.  Sorry.

My eternal, unbounded optimism about St Mirren had already translated the Hibs last minute goal into an equaliser, which... er.... it wasn’t.  :(

 

Also...

You still can’t spell, I see...

Your math's not very good either. :rolleyes: 

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14 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

Can you evidence how, where or why "it's clear that the DoF role has failed this summer" , particularly when there is still around 2 or 3 weeks of the summer transfer window remaining.

 

@bazil85

Here...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45564078

Everything stalled during the Kearney saga and our "constant presence" was effectively left twiddling his thumbs, I'm as anyone glad JGs team seems to be gelling quickly but to suggest it's all part of the masterplan is ridiculous.

 

Edited by Bud the Baker
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Just now, Bud the Baker said:

@bazil85

Here...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45564078

Everything stalled during the Kearney saga and our "constant presence" was effectively left twiddling his thumbs, I'm as anyone glad JGs team seems to be gelling quickly but to suggest it's all part of "the masterplan" is ridiculous.

 

So that's just incorrect. 'We have a plan but not the manpower to define and execute it" so the set in stone specifics of his role were not 'defined' when that story broke. 

Things certainly did stall but a stall doesn't mean it'll fail does it? The bottom line that the boo boys ultimately need to accept is this window is looking like it has been a success even with the turmoil of a managerial change, exactly what GLS has been quoted as wanting (in some sense, again remember not defined). If it does pan out that way it'll be two for two transfer windows while Gus has been at that role, coincidence? You can hold onto your negative assumptions or you can embrace that we have a structure that now seemingly defined, is showing positive signs of success. 

Let's not forget some key points here. 

- St Mirren Vs Aberdeen is very different from St Mirren vs EK or Albion Rovers. Three or four divisions of difference actually, the players at our club at that time should categorically be beaten those teams, the failure to do so is with them & I'm sure they'd be the first to put their hands up. It was NOT a recruitment failure. 

- Aberdeen did not show arrogance yesterday, it's well accepted that teams need to rotate squads when they have stacked fixtures. 

- You have zero evidence we could have signed these players/ equal or better players sooner. I'm not saying we categorically couldn't have but you're making a negative assumption. The GLS interview yesterday, the timing of the left back signing (after the English window closed) the commentary on some players being scouted (by Gus according to Goody interviews by the way) last season & how long we were linked to some of these names all suggest they were not willing/ available earlier in the window. As GLS says, better players have better options, why would they all rush? 

- OK stated at his Q&A the job of Gus is not just identifying players himself but putting together detailed reports on players identified by him or others, imagine that must be the same for Goody. 

In summary, you can't provide any actual evidence to the determent of Gus job or our recruitment structure, all we have to go on is outputs. I would say the output signs so far are very promising like they were proven to be in the January window. 

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Guest TPAFKATS
[mention=8643]bazil85[/mention]
Here...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45564078
Everything stalled during the Kearney saga and our "constant presence" was effectively left twiddling his thumbs, I'm as anyone glad JGs team seems to be gelling quickly but to suggest it's all part of the masterplan is ridiculous.
 
With respect you have no evidence he was left twiddling his thumbs. Did you want the club to sign players during the period that OK was still collecting his holiday pay?

Just because we stalled for 3 weeks in the summer doesn't mean that Gus wasn't working.
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35 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

With respect you have no evidence he was left twiddling his thumbs. Did you want the club to sign players during the period that OK was still collecting his holiday pay?

Just because we stalled for 3 weeks in the summer doesn't mean that Gus wasn't working.

Every manager comes into a rump of players so yes!

I said GM was "twiddling his thumbs" - To wait idly because one cannot take action - not that he wasn't working.

I think this covers the "new signings" part of @bazil85's post which even he admits he can't prove "categorically".  

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As for the LC I maintain it's arrogant to assume "categorically" that we should have beaten East Kilbride & Albion Rovers, see my reference to the Aberdeen fans who felt "categorically" the same way about yesterday's result - perhaps there are even some EK fans out there who think "categorically" that they should've beaten our Colts.

Always glad to see a fellow forumster expand his vocabulary. :lol:

Edited by Bud the Baker
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32 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

I once held the record for the longest lunch when I took three visiting auditors for lunch in Glasgow, or so I am told. Lasted from around 12.30 one day till around 3pm the next. Those were the days of expense accounts! 

And the auditors slept from 12.31 till 3pm the next day. 

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1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

Every manager comes into a rump of players so yes!

I said GM was "twiddling his thumbs" - To wait idly because one cannot take action - not that he wasn't working.

I think this covers the "new signings" part of @bazil85's post which even he admits he can't prove "categorically".  

*******************

As for the LC I maintain it's arrogant to assume "categorically" that we should have beaten East Kilbride & Albion Rovers, see my reference to the Aberdeen fans who felt "categorically" the same way about yesterday's result - perhaps there are even some EK fans out there who think "categorically" that they should've beaten our Colts.

Always glad to see a fellow forumster expand his vocabulary. :lol:

I have made no attempt to 'categorically' say what has happened, this is the point, you have. You're making a negative assertion that more and more looks like it'll be wrong. 

It would be hypocritical if I argued we know this is going to be a successful season right now in the way you're arguing it's been a failure. Difference is after the last two games, the evidence is getting stronger that you're wrong but we'll see. Let's also remember you've just concluded you can't know your negative assumption, typical of a small number of our fans that go out their way to be a boo boy. 

As for the League cup campaign, can you detail the players in the starting 11s that were not League 2 or above quality please? Upsets happen in football, we accept that but as a team we should have been more than comfortable we had enough to beat those squads. Again Aberdeen Vs St Mirren is very different to this situation given the difference in football levels. As is it different our most senior youth team vs part-time players from the lower league. Do you genuinely not think there's any difference in these levels?

 

 

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Guest TPAFKATS
Every manager comes into a rump of players so yes!
I said GM was "twiddling his thumbs" - To wait idly because one cannot take action - not that he wasn't working.
I think this covers the "new signings" part of [mention=8643]bazil85[/mention]'s post which even he admits he can't prove "categorically".  
*******************
As for the LC I maintain it's arrogant to assume "categorically" that we should have beaten East Kilbride & Albion Rovers, see my reference to the Aberdeen fans who felt "categorically" the same way about yesterday's result - perhaps there are even some EK fans out there who think "categorically" that they should've beaten our Colts.
Always glad to see a fellow forumster expand his vocabulary. [emoji38]
Kearney never even looked to replace Jimmy Nicholl, but you expect MacPherson to get players signed and the new manager has to come in and lump it? Much better idea to wait for the new manager and work together in my opinion.

Christ, you've got me agreeing with Basil again.
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3 hours ago, bazil85 said:

I have made no attempt to 'categorically' say what has happened, this is the point, you have. You're making a negative assertion that more and more looks like it'll be wrong. 

It would be hypocritical if I argued we know this is going to be a successful season right now in the way you're arguing it's been a failure. Difference is after the last two games, the evidence is getting stronger that you're wrong but we'll see. Let's also remember you've just concluded you can't know your negative assumption, typical of a small number of our fans that go out their way to be a boo boy. 

As for the League cup campaign, can you detail the players in the starting 11s that were not League 2 or above quality please? Upsets happen in football, we accept that but as a team we should have been more than comfortable we had enough to beat those squads. Again Aberdeen Vs St Mirren is very different to this situation given the difference in football levels. As is it different our most senior youth team vs part-time players from the lower league. Do you genuinely not think there's any difference in these levels?

Yeah the point is it's only your opinion, one that I disagree with "categorically" - I've already explained my assessment of the LC campaign pages back (p33) the only new thing today is you lapping up GLSs radio interview yesterday saying it's all been part of a masterplan. To get back to the point of the thread (yet again :rolleyes:) the DoF role did not provide the "constant presence" described as his role by GLS last autumn and stating that is neither "negative" or being a "boo boy".

I never said it was going to be a be an unsuccessful season just that recent experience had shown that it took about a month or so to get a substantial amount of new players to gel - once again you read one point and come back with a different one - misinterpretation is your stock-in-trade. 

The Aberdeen situation is a clear parallel with a small section of their fans saying that even a squad team with their top scorer missing should have beaten us - arrogant fans are arrogant fans whatever club they support. Of course there is a difference in levels but the parallel is that it should be no surprise when understrength teams underperform.

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6 hours ago, antrin said:

If I thought the latter for a second, then I wouldn’t respond.

I have never doubted that you were simply thick.  :)

 

Yeah, given that you thought Hibs had scored a late equaliser against us last week, I'd be careful about throwing the word "thick" at other posters. :D

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25 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

Kearney never even looked to replace Jimmy Nicholl, but you expect MacPherson to get players signed and the new manager has to come in and lump it? Much better idea to wait for the new manager and work together in my opinion.

Christ, you've got me agreeing with Basil again.

How do you know Kearney never looked to replace Nicholl, you're just making that up - nobody who posts on BAWA can know this for sure unless Scoop1987 has made a dramatic return....

As for the rest it's old ground that I've already answered. breaks in a 12 hour shift!

BTW - I get 6 12  breaks in a 12 hour shift!

Edited by Bud the Baker
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32 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Yeah the point is it's only your opinion, one that I disagree with "categorically" - I've already explained my assessment of the LC campaign pages back (p33) the only new thing today is you lapping up GLSs radio interview yesterday saying it's all been part of a masterplan. To get back to the point of the thread (yet again :rolleyes:) the DoF role did not provide the "constant presence" described as his role by GLS last autumn and stating that is neither "negative" or being a "boo boy".

I never said it was going to be a be an unsuccessful season just that recent experience had shown that it took about a month or so to get a substantial amount of new players to gel - once again you read one point and come back with a different one - misinterpretation is your stock-in-trade. 

The Aberdeen situation is a clear parallel with a small section of their fans saying that even a squad team with their top scorer missing should have beaten us - arrogant fans are arrogant fans whatever club they support. Of course there is a difference in levels but the parallel is that it should be no surprise when understrength teams underperform.

So you seem to not be able to understand my simple point, I’ll try again. I am not really forming an opinion on whether this window has or hasn’t been a success because it’s 12th August, it would be ridiculous, less so m than mid-July but ridiculous none the less. 

What I am saying is we have positive signs the window may be a success (arguably more than we have that it’s not been a success). The GLS interview seems to justify the approach & the signings certainly line up with what he has said. 

You are saying it’s been a failure from what I can tell, see above regarding how ridiculous coming to that conclusion is. We could finish top half this season, top 4, we could in theory win the league (not saying we will before you jump on that) and you already have the summer business down as a failure because we took longer to sign players. You have zero proof that would have been quicker & equal/ higher quality of OK hadn’t left  

You’ve already beaten yourself on the DOF point by sharing an article that clearly said it wasn’t defined. You don’t really have any comeback on that at all IMO. Gus was a constant presence this summer so I don’t get your point. 

Let me ask you a question though, do you think that interview categorically (word of the day) stated there would be absolutely zero interruption in the event of a managerial change regardless of time or circumstances? Very idealistic, not realistic & not anything I took from an article that clearly said we still need to define a role. 

As for the rest, hardly worth responding, you’ve shown a need to be negative on dozens of points on here usually surrounding GLS & our BoD. Aberdeen & St Mirren are in the same league so the comparison is miles off. Arrogant fans is different from a belief that we should have enough to achieve a goal. Do you genuinely not think our squad at that time was good enough to beat EK & if so who started that’s a lower standard than lowland league? 

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