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Kemp

Why has the Director of Football failed?

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In the course of our St Mirren related travels we meet all sorts of footballing people and pick up on various rumours surrounding St Mirren.

One such rumour which came our way that any money saved from last year’s managerial expenses/team running budget would be added to this year’s transfer budget

The main reason Kearney left was he had been  told he couldn’t utilise the savings he had made last season and the original transfer budget had been reduced too. The commuting was made into an issue to muddy the waters when OK and GLS fell out over the transfer budget.

That came from a couple of sources, but I don’t think they were big fans of GLS.

IF, and I say IF, there is any truth in this speculation. It may be the case we will struggle to attract any decent players during the window.

As an aside, I also heard that if JG hadn’t accepted the Job Eddie Wolecki Black was to be our next target.

The things you hear when you’re on the beer.

Edited by East Lothian Saint

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24 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

In the course of our St Mirren related travels we meet all sorts of footballing people and pick up on various rumours surrounding St Mirren.

One such rumour which came our way that any money saved from last year’s managerial expenses/team running budget would be added to this year’s transfer budget

The main reason Kearney left was he had been  told he couldn’t utilise the savings he had made last season and the original transfer budget had been reduced too. The commuting was made into an issue to muddy the waters when OK and GLS fell out over the transfer budget.

That came from a couple of sources, but I don’t think they were big fans of GLS.

IF, and I say IF, there is any truth in this speculation. It may be the case we will struggle to attract any decent players during the window.

As an aside, I also heard that if JG hadn’t accepted the Job Eddie Wolecki Black was to be our next target.

The things you hear when you’re on the beer.

If, and I do say if, there is any truth in the content of this post, I do fear for our Club this year.

We have played 4 competitive matches, all against lower or non-league opposition and the results speak for themselves. 1 lost (2-3), 2 drawn (0-0) and 1 win (1-0). I will quite accept that we have only conceded 3 goals, but on the other hand we've only scored three. Good God, Morton even went on their travels and scored 5 against lower league opposition.

The team we are fielding at the present moment will not survive in this year's Premier League and importing more 2nd grade, cheap, so-called footballers to make up the numbers will not cover over the cracks.

Even with our turmoil, I fear the worst, if indeed the above rumour has any basis of truth!

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37 minutes ago, East Lothian Saint said:

In the course of our St Mirren related travels we meet all sorts of footballing people and pick up on various rumours surrounding St Mirren.

One such rumour which came our way that any money saved from last year’s managerial expenses/team running budget would be added to this year’s transfer budget

The main reason Kearney left was he had been  told he couldn’t utilise the savings he had made last season and the original transfer budget had been reduced too. The commuting was made into an issue to muddy the waters when OK and GLS fell out over the transfer budget.

That came from a couple of sources, but I don’t think they were big fans of GLS.

IF, and I say IF, there is any truth in this speculation. It may be the case we will struggle to attract any decent players during the window.

As an aside, I also heard that if JG hadn’t accepted the Job Eddie Wolecki Black was to be our next target.

The things you hear when you’re on the beer.

ELS, the section of your post that I have highlighted in bold would make me question the accuracy of the rumours...…..what savings, from the existing budget, could we have made that would have been added to this year's budget. When you look at what was spent initially with Stubbs (Heaton transfer etc) then bringing in Jackson, Ferdinand and Hamill followed by the arrivals in January I struggle to see where any savings could have been accrued!!

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17 hours ago, WeeBud said:

Baz, I think this is why I don't really engage with you that much although I do read a lot of what you think with interest, I am not looking to prove you wrong or blame anyone for anything, I am merely expressing my opinion or view.....you then think it's  your place to decide when I see and what I see as "common denominators", that's not up to you.

Whether the 2016 pre-season car crash was down to GLS or not (I don't think it was incidentally) he was in charge of the club and it should form part of his learning experience. Three summers on (this being the fourth under his stewardship) and we are not ready, with pre-season just about complete, to go in to the season ahead.

As I said earlier I hope that both GLS and the club go on to be successful this and every other season but I can see why it's alright for people to question what is going on at the club and who is leading it.

This is a discussion forum, points of clarity are a part of it. I don't see much in the way of common denominators & that post is a high level summary of my take on GLS Stewardship to date. You're welcome to challenge it or add where you are seeing a repeat of the same issues, you're also free not to. 

Again as I have said all along, the only notable mistake I can see from GLS (not the only one but the only notable one) is appointing Stubbs & there was fall-out. To be critical of him as repeating mistakes because a previous chairman appointed a different manager that turned out to be a dud is unfair IMO. I also feel to continually refer back to an error in managerial appointment is also unfair.

GLS has done as I would expect though when recruiting, he has always backed the managers & people assuming the same won't go for Goodwin before our summer business is complete is premature. I have pointed out why I don't see similarities this season to previous, you may see them, you may think it's okay to couple GLS & Gilmour seasons together, absolutely fine but the overarching fact is GLS has had three full seasons to judge.

One a promotion,

One survival in the top league of Scottish football,

One very poor (after inheriting Alex Rae as his No1) that ultimately led to the building of a team that got us promoted & our most successful manager since Lennon. T

hat's it, people judging this season need to remember it's July. No excuse for the league cup campaign but again, this squad should be beating players three or four tiers below them, that is where the blame must sit. 

 

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1 hour ago, shull said:

 

Surprising twitter spat. Bit off for Stewart Gilmour to slag a guy off for simply showing off a picture of his cars with Saints related cherished number plates. So what? None of Stewart Gilmour's business. Comes across as petty and quite nasty.

However, Stewart Gilmour is quite right to question where the approximately £2 million in transfer fees and other income has gone. This Club should be flush and able to offer competitive wages for good players.

Gordon Scott should be clearing this up. It is rumoured, on the same twitter exchange, that some fans  who backed fan ownership have cancelled their monthly payments. That's a disaster for the Club  and our fan ownership aspirations if true.

Come on Gordon. Communicate and end this nonsense about the Club being skint.

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13 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Don't confuse you and Baz with my old troll stalking me, completely different, although he is as dim and repetitive as Baz. :wink:

 

13 hours ago, BuddieinEK said:

Ooohhh... Stalking, you say?

Baz often resorts to that accusation!

Up yer game or be damned by comparison! emoji12.png

Aw you guys, my two favourite stalkers becoming firm friends, beautiful. Maybe I'm developing a sort of Stockholm syndrome...  😅

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19 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

This is a discussion forum, points of clarity are a part of it. I don't see much in the way of common denominators & that post is a high level summary of my take on GLS Stewardship to date. You're welcome to challenge it or add where you are seeing a repeat of the same issues, you're also free not to. 

Again as I have said all along, the only notable mistake I can see from GLS (not the only one but the only notable one) is appointing Stubbs & there was fall-out. To be critical of him as repeating mistakes because a previous chairman appointed a different manager that turned out to be a dud is unfair IMO. I also feel to continually refer back to an error in managerial appointment is also unfair.

GLS has done as I would expect though when recruiting, he has always backed the managers & people assuming the same won't go for Goodwin before our summer business is complete is premature. I have pointed out why I don't see similarities this season to previous, you may see them, you may think it's okay to couple GLS & Gilmour seasons together, absolutely fine but the overarching fact is GLS has had three full seasons to judge.

One a promotion,

One survival in the top league of Scottish football,

One very poor (after inheriting Alex Rae as his No1) that ultimately led to the building of a team that got us promoted & our most successful manager since Lennon. T

hat's it, people judging this season need to remember it's July. No excuse for the league cup campaign but again, this squad should be beating players three or four tiers below them, that is where the blame must sit. 

 

I have honestly just shaken my head and sighed!!

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1 minute ago, bazil85 said:

It would be a very quiet place if everyone just nodded their head and agreed on here wouldn't it? 

FFS, my only point Baz is that it ok for people to question (note I never said blame and haven't blamed at any point) GLS if they don't think we are learning from past seasons.....for some reason you don't think people have that right, fire on!!

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1 hour ago, shull said:

 

And dont we know Mr Wardrobe's finances, and those of the club are separate..!

when Scott was challenged why he gave a blazer on the board to a man (Mr Wardrobe) who so opposed Smisa & BtB he said that he (Mr Wardrobe) may be looking to invest in the  club......!

we all assumed a significant sum for players, club development etc.... not to buy a steak pie!

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3 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

FFS, my only point Baz is that it ok for people to question (note I never said blame and haven't blamed at any point) GLS if they don't think we are learning from past seasons.....for some reason you don't think people have that right, fire on!!

Nope I absolutely do think people have the right.

My queries back to you have been regarding your points on past mistakes & that I’m not seeing the correlation. I’ve even detailed why I don’t see the correlation & the reason for me questioning it. 

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4 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

And dont we know Mr Wardrobe's finances, and those of the club are separate..!

when Scott was challenged why he gave a blazer on the board to a man (Mr Wardrobe) who so opposed Smisa & BtB he said that he (Mr Wardrobe) may be looking to invest in the  club......!

we all assumed a significant sum for players, club development etc.... not to buy a steak pie!

A bun fight on twitter doesn’t show either of them in a good light. 

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1 hour ago, WeeBud said:

ELS, the section of your post that I have highlighted in bold would make me question the accuracy of the rumours...…..what savings, from the existing budget, could we have made that would have been added to this year's budget. When you look at what was spent initially with Stubbs (Heaton transfer etc) then bringing in Jackson, Ferdinand and Hamill followed by the arrivals in January I struggle to see where any savings could have been accrued!!

No problem with your scepticism. As I said the sources weren't GLS fans but they did appear credible.

They stated it wasn't the first gentleman's agreement GLS had reneged on. Funnily enough I was at a Coleraine open day when I heard that one.

As Far as Eddie Wolecki Black is concerned A Rangers supporter who purported to be Neil Lennon's best mate told me that in a pub in Coatbridge Recently. He's maybe not as ITK but you hear what you hear when you're on the beer.

Edited by East Lothian Saint

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3 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Nope I absolutely do think people have the right.

My queries back to you have been regarding your points on past mistakes & that I’m not seeing the correlation. I’ve even detailed why I don’t see the correlation & the reason for me questioning it. 

No Baz, they are not queries they are determinations that you are right and I am wrong, you even changed my parameters on "common denominators", my grandchildren are capable of more "reasoned" debate than that!!

For clarification GLS has been at the helm for four summers, my point was that people are right to question if he has learned from the previous three pre-seasons whether he was responsible for them or not, it is possible to learn from others successes and failures too. 

I am not going to get dragged into the shit-fest that you seem to have with many others, I'm going to help my grandchildren build things with their lego…….it's far more constructive!!

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21 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

GLS has done as I would expect though when recruiting, he has always backed the managers & people assuming the same won't go for Goodwin before our summer business is complete is premature. I have pointed out why I don't see similarities this season to previous, you may see them, you may think it's okay to couple GLS & Gilmour seasons together, absolutely fine but the overarching fact is GLS has had three full seasons to judge.

No he hasn't! otherwise Oran Kearney would still be manager & St Mirren FC would possibly/probably still be in the league cup and this summers recruitment would be in the advanced stages of having a full squad assembled.

OK wanted to stay, of that there is no doubt but something happened that brought about him leaving. A daily commute wasn't a deal breaker but it's become convenient to use as the reason OK left.

 Something or someone got inside GLS's head & he started scheming to replace OK.  GLS himself said,

Quote

"Fortunately we had anticipated it and prepared for it and it's not affected us in any way, other than perhaps signing wise, we are not quite where we want to be, but in every other way we are where we want to be."

Don't you think the managerial merry go round of 9 managers in 6 seasons with 5 changes of manager in GLS' tenure as chairman isn't a contributing factor to our current situation?

The similarities are, we are rebuilding this preseason once again with a new manager at the helm (again, again, again, again again) Now! we are where we are & we need to get sorted asap.

I have no doubts, Jim Goodwin will do a magnificent job for us, but like every manager before him, he needs time to settle in, get to know the players and for the players to get to know him, learn his tactics, formations, style of play etc. The league cup came too soon for us in the situation we are in. 

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Kombibuddie said:

No he hasn't! otherwise Oran Kearney would still be manager & St Mirren FC would possibly/probably still be in the league cup and this summers recruitment would be in the advanced stages of having a full squad assembled.

First of all I mean regarding player recruitment. Secondly that's purely speculation that OK not being here is down to GLS, it ignores GLS interview where he said it was OK choice. 

OK wanted to stay, of that there is no doubt but something happened that brought about him leaving. A daily commute wasn't a deal breaker but it's become convenient to use as the reason OK left.

How do you know he wanted to say and how can you say there is no doubt? Again is this an assumption GLS 'entirely his choice' comment is wrong? 

 Something or someone got inside GLS's head & he started scheming to replace OK.  GLS himself said,

More negative anti-GLS assumptions 

Don't you think the managerial merry go round of 9 managers in 6 seasons with 5 changes of manager in GLS' tenure as chairman isn't a contributing factor to our current situation?

Rae - right choice, he didn't hire him

Ross - Powerless to stop 

Stubbs - error in judgement & right choice to remove

OK - see above regarding your assumptions 

The similarities are, we are rebuilding this preseason once again with a new manager at the helm (again, again, again, again again) Now! we are where we are & we need to get sorted asap.

Last season it was completely outside our control needing a new manager, this season... yet again see your above assumptions. Both seasons prior to that we didn't start with a new manager so again I'm not seeing any similarities that have been down to GLS. Unless you think he could have done more to stop Ross taking a job that more than trebled his salary? 

I have no doubts, Jim Goodwin will do a magnificent job for us, but like every manager before him, he needs time to settle in, get to know the players and for the players to get to know him, learn his tactics, formations, style of play etc. The league cup came too soon for us in the situation we are in. 

 

 

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

No Baz, they are not queries they are determinations that you are right and I am wrong, you even changed my parameters on "common denominators", my grandchildren are capable of more "reasoned" debate than that!!

For clarification GLS has been at the helm for four summers, my point was that people are right to question if he has learned from the previous three pre-seasons whether he was responsible for them or not, it is possible to learn from others successes and failures too. 

I am not going to get dragged into the shit-fest that you seem to have with many others, I'm going to help my grandchildren build things with their lego…….it's far more constructive!!

If that's the case why aren't you rebutting my points on not seeing repeat mistakes? My opinion is there are not really commonality, I'm allowed that opinion. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm asking you to clarify what you mean. As for changing parameters, I am not, this isn't a black and white debate, there are shades of grey, anyone trying to make it black and white can very easily be challenged on this forum. 

Kombibuddie above for example, has highlighted his reasons for thinking there are common mistakes down to GLS. He's entitled to those opinions but I'm also entitle to point out where it is hearsay or where it has mitigating circumstance (us starting last season with a new manager being down to Ross leaving & us being powerless to stop it for example)

Yep this is his fourth summer, it isn't over yet people are already judging him. The previous two have resulted in successful (relatively speaking) seasons & the one before that he learned that Alex Rae wasn't the right man for the job, sacked him, brought in a manager that he backed & that ultimately led to a team that got us promotion the following season.

Is that a fair summary or were your expectations higher? (for example anything above survival for a promoted team in their fist season)  

 

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2 hours ago, magnus said:

Surprising twitter spat. Bit off for Stewart Gilmour to slag a guy off for simply showing off a picture of his cars with Saints related cherished number plates. So what? None of Stewart Gilmour's business. Comes across as petty and quite nasty.

However, Stewart Gilmour is quite right to question where the approximately £2 million in transfer fees and other income has gone. This Club should be flush and able to offer competitive wages for good players.

Gordon Scott should be clearing this up. It is rumoured, on the same twitter exchange, that some fans  who backed fan ownership have cancelled their monthly payments. That's a disaster for the Club  and our fan ownership aspirations if true.

Come on Gordon. Communicate and end this nonsense about the Club being skint.

Firstly, Stewart is quite right to ask where all the money has gone and why we don't have enough players!

Additionally, if you are the type of fanny to spend money on personalised number plates then you deserve all the abuse that you get! He's got off quite lightly if anything.

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2 hours ago, WeeBud said:

ELS, the section of your post that I have highlighted in bold would make me question the accuracy of the rumours...…..what savings, from the existing budget, could we have made that would have been added to this year's budget. When you look at what was spent initially with Stubbs (Heaton transfer etc) then bringing in Jackson, Ferdinand and Hamill followed by the arrivals in January I struggle to see where any savings could have been accrued!!

Correct. 

Safe to assume the rest such as us chasing after the Celtic ladies coach is a load of pish as well!

People do talk nonsense after a couple of shandies!

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1 hour ago, East Lothian Saint said:

 

They stated it wasn't the first gentleman's agreement GLS had reneged on. Funnily enough I was at a Coleraine open day when I heard that one.

 

This part however is quite easy to believe.

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54 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

No he hasn't! otherwise Oran Kearney would still be manager & St Mirren FC would possibly/probably still be in the league cup and this summers recruitment would be in the advanced stages of having a full squad assembled.

First of all I mean regarding player recruitment.

Then why is the club employing a Director of Football?

OK wanted to stay, of that there is no doubt but something happened that brought about him leaving. A daily commute wasn't a deal breaker but it's become convenient to use as the reason OK left.

How do you know he wanted to say and how can you say there is no doubt? Again is this an assumption GLS 'entirely his choice' comment is wrong? 

GLS himself stated, OK "wanted to stay but under the right conditions" Which supports my statement, OK wanted to stay. I am stating, a daily commute was not the deal breaker. GLS himself stated, they "came to a compromise & moved on"

I am saying, the daily commute was not a deal breaker. Prove me wrong?

 Something or someone got inside GLS's head & he started scheming to replace OK.  GLS himself said,

More negative anti-GLS assumptions.

No assumptions, perhaps you should read the article again where GLS said they "done due diligence on the new manager, arranged preseason in spite of him (OK) etc. OK was still in the job, it appears, the plan was to get him out. But why? They had "resolved" matters and "moved on".

Don't you think the managerial merry go round of 9 managers in 6 seasons with 5 changes of manager in GLS' tenure as chairman isn't a contributing factor to our current situation?

Rae - right choice, he didn't hire him

Ross - Powerless to stop 

Stubbs - error in judgement & right choice to remove

OK - see above regarding your assumptions 

The similarities are, we are rebuilding this preseason once again with a new manager at the helm (again, again, again, again again) Now! we are where we are & we need to get sorted asap.

Last season it was completely outside our control needing a new manager, this season... yet again see your above assumptions. Both seasons prior to that we didn't start with a new manager so again I'm not seeing any similarities that have been down to GLS. Unless you think he could have done more to stop Ross taking a job that more than trebled his salary? 

Dress it how you like but we have a revolving door in the managers office and there appears to be little or no appetite to stop that door spinning. Hopefully JG will put the brakes on it. Time will tell, I certainly hope so.

The similarities you fail to recognise is, every preseason, we are doing a rebuilding job at St Mirren.

I've heard GLS is a difficult fella to work/deal with, I don't know the fella but the more and more you see and hear the same kind of things, you tend to start scratching your chin and wonder, is there any substance to this?

Hopefully the Club AGM in November/December will enlighten the shareholders on the managerial merry go round, the finances and provide some understating on other matters the shareholders find questionable.

I have no doubts, Jim Goodwin will do a magnificent job for us, but like every manager before him, he needs time to settle in, get to know the players and for the players to get to know him, learn his tactics, formations, style of play etc. The league cup came too soon for us in the situation we are in.

Baz,

This is not a war. We know how you like to "win your arguments" :lol

Edited by Kombibuddie

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1 hour ago, Kombibuddie said:

No he hasn't! otherwise Oran Kearney would still be manager & St Mirren FC would possibly/probably still be in the league cup and this summers recruitment would be in the advanced stages of having a full squad assembled.

OK wanted to stay, of that there is no doubt but something happened that brought about him leaving. A daily commute wasn't a deal breaker but it's become convenient to use as the reason OK left.

 

This has got nothing to do with him backing managers. This was a completely separate issue which has been discussed to death on this forum.

The facts are GLS has significantly backed every manager he has appointed so far. 

Jack Ross with the January 2017 squad overhaul, Stubbs with last summer's whole new squad and OK with another whole new squad in January this year.

He will back Goodwin. It takes time to get the right standard of players in. 

 

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30 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Firstly, Stewart is quite right to ask where all the money has gone and why we don't have enough players!

Additionally, if you are the type of fanny to spend money on personalised number plates then you deserve all the abuse that you get! He's got off quite lightly if anything.

Firstly, I said that exactly that. Stewart Gilmour is right to ask where has the money gone. I would like Gordon Scott to clear this up before fans become discouraged about fan ownership.

Dont get your bile around something as daft as a number plate but la de da.

I will not be selling F4 NNY

Edited by magnus

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