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Why has the Director of Football failed?

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30 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:


Depends on what you regard the mistakes of summer 18 to be emoji57.png
IF you regard the mistakes to be spunking the transfer budget on a bunch of duffers of which only one is still with us then this summer isn't a failure... not yet at least!

 

 

 

The mistakes of Summer 18 - not having a League ready team in time for the first game.

I expected 5/6 players in before the Summer Camp or at least the start of the LC campaign (which in it's current format is always gonna be a bit hit&miss for most teams), this should have left some money in the playing budget for a further 2/3 fine tuning  signings as the closure of the transfer window approached and bigger clubs looked to shift their surplus players.

Edited by Bud the Baker

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20 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Cooke kept the Duck out of the starting 11 at the very end of the season, a player signed in January for the relegation battle. Again are you saying he isn't good enough to lead the line against L2/ Lowland league teams? I don't particularly rate him very highly but he is still an SP striker right now & I have no question that he should be good enough to help see off Albion Rovers. 

So if we signed five players on the same day as Djorkaeff of a high quality would it still be Gus & GLS to blame? You now seem to be making a point that we should have had our business completed weeks before these games or the summer is a failure, why? 

Correct but the defenders completed their primary goal & that's a clean sheet. Even including them, EE was playing at a position he featured a lot in last season & McGinn had been part of a back three on occasion.  Are you saying them both playing in the positions they were in wouldn't get a game for any Championship, League 1 side or most of League 2? 

You might not think we had a majority of top flight players but did we have players that are only the same level as Albion feckin Rovers?? To think we didn't have a team good enough to beat Albion Rovers is to think we have some players playing up to three levels higher than they should be! As I have clearly articulated above, it defies logic. 

Are you saying no matter what happens now until 31st of August this summer transfer business has been a failure? So if we sign players good enough to have a better season than last it will still be a failure because a team of SP players couldn't beat Albion Rovers? Madness & you know it's madness because people are agreeing with me on it haha.

 

Cooke still wasn't a regular starter last season.

We didn't sign 5 players of a high quality on the same day as we signed Djorkaeff.

No I'm saying the sides we put out against EK & Albion Rovers weren't top flight quality and saying we should have won anyway is pretty arrogant - it's maybe a slightly different nuance but I'd accept shouldn't have lost to these teams.

Yes - we may do some good business between now & August 31st but experience shows it takes 4/5 weeks for a team with a significant number of new players to gel.

I'll  stand by my opinions until I receive better arguments than those above.

Edited by Bud the Baker

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12 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Cooke still wasn't a regular starter last season.

We didn't sign 5 players of a high quality on the same day as we signed Djorkaeff.

No I;m saying the sides we put out against EK & Albion Rovers weren't top flight quality and saying we should have won anyway is pretty arrogant - it's maybe a slightly different nuance but I'd accept shouldn't lose to these teams.

I'm not prejudging what happens between now & August 31st but experience shows it takes 4/5 weeks for a team with a significant number of new players to gel.

I'll  stand by my opinions until I receive better arguments than those above.

It's not arrogant to suggest a full time SPL squad should be beating part-time teams from L2 and the Lowland league.

I don't think you are going to get much support for that point of view TBH.

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1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

It's not arrogant to suggest a full time SPL squad should be beating part-time teams from L2 and the Lowland league.

I don't think you are going to get much support for that point of view TBH.

We don't have a complete full time SPL squad at present (22/23 players) - that's my point.

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15 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Cooke still wasn't a regular starter last season.

We didn't sign 5 players of a high quality on the same day as we signed Djorkaeff.

No I'm saying the sides we put out against EK & Albion Rovers weren't top flight quality and saying we should have won anyway is pretty arrogant - it's maybe a slightly different nuance but I'd accept shouldn't have lost to these teams.

Yes - we may do some good business between now & August 31st but experience shows it takes 4/5 weeks for a team with a significant number of new players to gel.

I'll  stand by my opinions until I receive better arguments than those above.

And Cooke still isn't a league 2 or below player. 

But you're using the time we signed Djorkeff to discount. Even though he had been on the summer camp & played in at least three games for us before EK. 

They might not have been top flight quality but they weren't three divisions below that quality. The failings to beat these teams categorically sit with the players on that part & the coaches preparation. Glad we're getting somewhere with the 'shouldn't have lost' it's the only point I'm making. I do see the irony though that the same people having a go at GLS for months/ years are the ones using this to target him again. 

Would you rather we had poorer players gelled for 38 games or better players gelled for 34-36? This unfortunately could have been our options, signing players to improve a squad isn't as easy as people make out. 

I don't imagine you'll get a better argument than St Mirren are in the SP & those teams are at least three levels below them tbh, which is what this boils down to. If you think playing two players out of position (which worked in some SP games last season) & one player only training with the team for 3-4 weeks changes our dynamic from makeshift SP to Lowland league level, that's your opinion.  

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1 minute ago, bazil85 said:

And Cooke still isn't a league 2 or below player. 

But you're using the time we signed Djorkeff to discount. Even though he had been on the summer camp & played in at least three games for us before EK. 

They might not have been top flight quality but they weren't three divisions below that quality. The failings to beat these teams categorically sit with the players on that part & the coaches preparation. Glad we're getting somewhere with the 'shouldn't have lost' it's the only point I'm making. I do see the irony though that the same people having a go at GLS for months/ years are the ones using this to target him again. 

Would you rather we had poorer players gelled for 38 games or better players gelled for 34-36? This unfortunately could have been our options, signing players to improve a squad isn't as easy as people make out. 

I don't imagine you'll get a better argument than St Mirren are in the SP & those teams are at least three levels below them tbh, which is what this boils down to. If you think playing two players out of position (which worked in some SP games last season) & one player only training with the team for 3-4 weeks changes our dynamic from makeshift SP to Lowland league level, that's your opinion.  

The squad wasn't ready for the League Cup and that was principally due to the failure of the DoF role - I retain this opinion.

******************

Q. Can you guarantee the delay in signing players will lead to us getting better quality?

A. No, the delay however will have an impact on when the first team gels.

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27 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

The squad wasn't ready for the League Cup and that was principally due to the failure of the DoF role - I retain this opinion.

******************

Q. Can you guarantee the delay in signing players will lead to us getting better quality?

A. No, the delay however will have an impact on when the first team gels.

You’re allowed that opinion, I have shown some of the beliefs you must hold to retain it though including thinking the team was poorer than L2 quality. 

I never claimed I could guarantee it. 

Q. Is that justification in signing players earlier that JG thought weren’t good enough to improve our team? 

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34 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

You’re allowed that opinion, I have shown some of the beliefs you must hold to retain it though including thinking the team was poorer than L2 quality. 

I never claimed I could guarantee it. 

Q. Is that justification in signing players earlier that JG thought weren’t good enough to improve our team? 

Thanks but no you haven't, you've just expressed a different one.

I was replying to your hypothetical question in kind!

Time will tell but it confirms that the post of DoF is currently redundant!

Edited by Bud the Baker

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You’re allowed that opinion, I have shown some of the beliefs you must hold to retain it though including thinking the team was poorer than L2 quality. 
I never claimed I could guarantee it. 
Q. Is that justification in signing players earlier that JG thought weren’t good enough to improve our team? 
Geez yappy wee dug.

Gonnae just let the bone go?

Nothing new on how many pages?

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The mistakes of Summer 18 - not having a League ready team in time for the first game.
I expected 5/6 players in before the Summer Camp or at least the start of the LC campaign (which in it's current format is always gonna be a bit hit&miss for most teams), this should have left some money in the playing budget for a further 2/3 fine tuning  signings as the closure of the transfer window approached and bigger clubs looked to shift their surplus players.


We had a league ready team in time for the first game of last season. OK the team was shite, but it was assembled in plenty of time by the then manager including a 75k transfer fee.

I would've preferred players in earlier as well. I'm sure everyone in a position to affect this at the club will agree with us on that.
Given that the English window shuts earlier we will always be likely to pick players up in August.

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On 7/30/2019 at 2:32 PM, DLBud said:

10 fit, recognised, first team players for Saturday now (IF McGinn and GMac are ready to go).

I believe the original question that started this thread is a moot point.

Never heard of im; but if he's a striker we'll ave im.😄

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1 minute ago, TPAFKATS said:


We had a league ready team in time for the first game of last season. OK the team was shite, but it was assembled in plenty of time by the then manager including a 75k transfer fee.

I would've preferred players in earlier as well. I'm sure everyone in a position to affect this at the club will agree with us on that.
Given that the English window shuts earlier we will always be likely to pick players up in August.

 

Were we a league ready team? I didn't think so and said so at the time.

Acknowledging that Stubbs made mistakes doesn't make this window a success as you seem to half agree!

Also you seem to be agreeing with me - aiming to get core players in early and fine tuning towards the end of the window!

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Just now, jaybee said:
  On 7/30/2019 at 2:32 PM, DLBud said:
Quote

10 fit, recognised, first team players for Saturday now (IF McGinn and GMac are ready to go).

I believe the original question that started this thread is a moot point.

 

Never heard of im; but if he's a striker we'll ave im.😄

No he played in midfield for us - when he was allowed off the exercise bike!

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2 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:
4 minutes ago, jaybee said:
  On 7/30/2019 at 2:32 PM, DLBud said:
Quote

10 fit, recognised, first team players for Saturday now (IF McGinn and GMac are ready to go).

I believe the original question that started this thread is a moot point.

 

Never heard of im; but if he's a striker we'll ave im.😄

No he played in midfield for us - when he was allowed off the exercise bike!

NAW! ah wis oan about the MOOT guy.  :D

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42 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Thanks but no you haven't, you've just expressed a different one.

I was replying to your hypothetical question in kind!

Time will tell but it confirms that the post of DoF is currently redundant!

If you don’t think the team we put out was good enough to beat L2/ lowland league teams you’re making an assumption on the quality on the park. There’s a reason you’re getting little support on this. 

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2 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Eh? :blink:

You'd wait, not knowing who was available?

Bit of a gamble? 

Have you taken your medication today? :hammer

You’d have signed players that JG didn’t want thinking they weren’t good enough? :blink:

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There was me thinking this was going to be your day off. :rolleyes:
kettle black & all that. 
Someone set an example... Always answer!

Difference?

I've only had to reprimand one inconsiderate twat as opposed to annoying countless posters and even more readers!

As I said... Nothing new in how many pages?

Feel free to ignore like you did my last question!

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3 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

You’d have signed players that JG didn’t want thinking they weren’t good enough? :blink:

He already inherited a squad of players who he might have, or might not, have thought were good enough.

Plenty managers inherit teams that they didn't sign.

What if we didn't get Goodwin as quickly as we did, should we not have signed any players....................well, we really didn't anyway.

Don't you have any faith in the person who was hired to sign players? 

After Goodwin arrived we were still slow, an understatement, to start any moves in the transfer market. 

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16 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Someone set an example... Always answer!

Difference?

I've only had to reprimand one inconsiderate twat as opposed to annoying countless posters and even more readers!

As I said... Nothing new in how many pages?

Feel free to ignore like you did my last question! emoji12.png

Some BEK spin, oh how we haven’t missed it. 

Seems a fair few on here agree with me that our current team aren’t lower than L2 level :rolleyes:

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14 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

He already inherited a squad of players who he might have, or might not, have thought were good enough.

Plenty managers inherit teams that they didn't sign.

What if we didn't get Goodwin as quickly as we did, should we not have signed any players....................well, we really didn't anyway.

Don't you have any faith in the person who was hired to sign players? 

After Goodwin arrived we were still slow, an understatement, to start any moves in the transfer market. 

None of that answers my question. We did hire Goodwin, do you think we should have forced him to sign players he didn’t think were good enough? 

Gus role (assuming it hasn’t changed since OK Q&A) is to source & scout potential signings that will then go through a process to determine their viability & value add to the squad. Not to go over the managers head in signing players.  

That process now seems to be producing fruit of the rumours are to be believed. Would it be good if it could have been done earlier? Yes. Was that possible? Unknown. 

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23 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

You’d have signed players that JG didn’t want thinking they weren’t good enough? :blink:

Managers rarely sign players anymore. Look at Pochettino's interview today.

It would be perfectly normal for us to have signed players without a manager. Hence the reason for a DoF in the first place.

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4 minutes ago, LargsBud said:

Managers rarely sign players anymore. Look at Pochettino's interview today.

It would be perfectly normal for us to have signed players without a manager. Hence the reason for a DoF in the first place.

It’s highly likely Goodwin has input in this and potentially final say. specifically if you look at his interviews about being given lists & that he could have signed players but didn’t think they were what we needed. 

DoF takes many forms but people need to remember that isn’t any model we have in place. Tony isn’t a DoF & neither is Gus.

Edited by bazil85

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