faraway saint Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said: IT is still not too late... but time is running out... You can get an invite to the best party ever, or you can claim you don't want to go because you don't believe that there is a party... ^^^^^^^ Now THIS is funny. Imagine a party with Sweep....................... Edited August 15, 2019 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 You are a riot - NOT I bet you spent loads of time studying religion and are an expert - HO HO HO HO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 F Man's specialist subject on mastermind would be emojis. That's as deep as he goes I suspect. I would think that he might be OK at repetitive, non manual tasks, maybe a tutor at nvq level. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Essential in this day and age.. Tutor that is, not F Man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 36 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said: Yeah and when "religion" is banned the results are always fabulous - All equal except those in power and loads of people locked up and killed for not WORSHIPPING the tyrannic dynasty or leader Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot , Communism or whatever name it goes by . . . China, Russia, etc. etc. Democracy is underpinned by moral rules taken from the Bible... Our nation has wandered off quite a bit and the result has been a shrinking British Empire and greatly diminishing "our power" in the world, lower morality and worse evil in society etc. etc. It is hard to get folk to be critical when they have CLOSED MINDS ! There is a better way, but when people are so adamant they are right, when they are WRONG, it is just sad - I know you think that true of people like me, but all will be revealed when this life is over... don't moan that God did not try to tell you otherwise once your chance to do proper critically evaluated investigation is over... You can begin from a position of ignorance and learn, but going to other folk who are ignorant about the one true God will never help anyone... IT is still not too late... but time is running out... You can get an invite to the best party ever, or you can claim you don't want to go because you don't believe that there is a party... Don't moan that a God of love excludes anyone - people exclude themselves by their choices and beliefs . . . Are you seriously suggesting that the British Empire followed moral rules? How can you justify the treatment of the people of its subjugated nations and the use of slavery? Aye, right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 7 minutes ago, smcc said: Are you seriously suggesting that the British Empire followed moral rules? How can you justify the treatment of the people of its subjugated nations and the use of slavery? Aye, right! Jings, no chance. Black hole of Calcutta. World first in inventing Camps similar to those later used by the Nazis. One could go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornwall_Saint Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 37 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said: 1. Yeah and when "religion" is banned the results are always fabulous - All equal except those in power and loads of people locked up and killed for not WORSHIPPING the tyrannic dynasty or leader Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot , Communism or whatever name it goes by . . . China, Russia, etc. etc. 2. Democracy is underpinned by moral rules taken from the Bible... 3. It is hard to get folk to be critical when they have CLOSED MINDS ! 4. You can begin from a position of ignorance and learn, but going to other folk who are ignorant about the one true God will never help anyone... 5. Don't moan that a God of love excludes anyone 1. Meanwhile, very religious countries like Pakistan jail and execute you for daring to speak out about the possibility of God not existing, or wanting to follow a different religion. 2. Moral rules, like stoning unmarried mothers and oppressing homosexuals. 3. It may be a matter of opinion, but to me, those who vehemently believe one religion, and refuse to accept other religions could be the “correct” one, that’s those with the closed minds. Those of us who are atheist or agnostic would immediately turn to a religion in the face of clear, undeniable evidence of its truth. Those who are religious continue to argue against scientific evidence that disagrees with their belief. Opening your mind allows you to view many possibilities. Sticking to your guns against any potential form of evidence is being close minded. 4. One true God...what evidence is there to support that the Biblical God is the true one, and not those of Hindu beliefs, Greek mythology, Ancient Egyptian beliefs, or a random tribe in the Amazon rainforest? 5. Well, for a start this God excludes homosexuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said: 1. Meanwhile, very religious countries like Pakistan jail and execute you for daring to speak out about the possibility of God not existing, or wanting to follow a different religion. 2. Moral rules, like stoning unmarried mothers and oppressing homosexuals. 3. It may be a matter of opinion, but to me, those who vehemently believe one religion, and refuse to accept other religions could be the “correct” one, that’s those with the closed minds. Those of us who are atheist or agnostic would immediately turn to a religion in the face of clear, undeniable evidence of its truth. Those who are religious continue to argue against scientific evidence that disagrees with their belief. Opening your mind allows you to view many possibilities. Sticking to your guns against any potential form of evidence is being close minded. 4. One true God...what evidence is there to support that the Biblical God is the true one, and not those of Hindu beliefs, Greek mythology, Ancient Egyptian beliefs, or a random tribe in the Amazon rainforest? 5. Well, for a start this God excludes homosexuals. You are certainly NOT getting an invite to this party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said: 1. Meanwhile, very religious countries like Pakistan jail and execute you for daring to speak out about the possibility of God not existing, or wanting to follow a different religion. 2. Moral rules, like stoning unmarried mothers and oppressing homosexuals. 3. It may be a matter of opinion, but to me, those who vehemently believe one religion, and refuse to accept other religions could be the “correct” one, that’s those with the closed minds. Those of us who are atheist or agnostic would immediately turn to a religion in the face of clear, undeniable evidence of its truth. Those who are religious continue to argue against scientific evidence that disagrees with their belief. Opening your mind allows you to view many possibilities. Sticking to your guns against any potential form of evidence is being close minded. 4. One true God...what evidence is there to support that the Biblical God is the true one, and not those of Hindu beliefs, Greek mythology, Ancient Egyptian beliefs, or a random tribe in the Amazon rainforest? 5. Well, for a start this God excludes homosexuals. No offence intended CS but I recall discussions like this with friends in my late teens. I think we all moved on from them. Monotheistic? "Weird practices of religions" Evidence v Belief. Alan Turing committed suicide. Not a lot if understanding there. It was only in 1874 that Married Women could own property. Before that Moslem women had more rights. It's an odd world, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 18 hours ago, Slartibartfast said: People are free to believe what they want. Just don't try and tell me that any sane person has a good reason to believe in any religion. They don't, that's why they use "faith" as the reason. Most religious folk dismiss every other religion as false without knowing anything about them. Why would that be? Out of the thousands of religions that have existed, what is the chance that any particular person just happened to be born into (or to have chosen) the one true religion? What do you mean by "without really making the effort to educate yourself"? I don't intend to reply often on this thread. Would you say John Lennox in this debate exhibits signs of mental illness, insanity or struggles to show good reasonong in his debate with Richard Dawkins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 John Lennox steps in at the last minute to debate with Christopher Hitchens (who supposedly destroyed Christianity according to Shull): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Sweeper07 said: Yeah and when "religion" is banned the results are always fabulous - All equal except those in power and loads of people locked up and killed for not WORSHIPPING the tyrannic dynasty or leader Saddam Hussein, Pol Pot , Communism or whatever name it goes by . . . China, Russia, etc. etc. Democracy is underpinned by moral rules taken from the Bible... Sadam Hussein was definitely NOT a god-botherer. And he didn't kill and destroy half as much as the US Christians and their Allies did, sadly... and to our shame. Also the moral rules in the Bible were being developed by the Greeks. And others... way before JC stepped onto the planet. Or are you picking and choosing like others above? Only wanting the New Testament when it suits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted August 15, 2019 Report Share Posted August 15, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 On 8/14/2019 at 6:36 PM, Isle Of Bute Saint said: Think like a lot of older buds was brought up a Christian. Life Boy's BB. The church never connected with me. My father funeral was conducted by the Salvation Army. Never really gave it a second thought until a so called friend asked me why the Salvation army. So I asked my mother she told me they were the only Christian' organisation to be found on the front line comforting soldiers. I have a lot of respect for the Salvation army they do a lot of good work. My grandfather fought in the Far East during the war and reckoned he would have starved to death had it not been for the Salvation Army. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 18 hours ago, smcc said: Are you seriously suggesting that the British Empire followed moral rules? How can you justify the treatment of the people of its subjugated nations and the use of slavery? Aye, right! No Not suggesting that at all - only stating that we behaved in such a way that it has been contraction ever since and that reducing moral values have exacerbated the situation.. By the way, there is more slavery today than there was when Wilberforce fought to end it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 18 hours ago, Cornwall_Saint said: 1. Meanwhile, very religious countries like Pakistan jail and execute you for daring to speak out about the possibility of God not existing, or wanting to follow a different religion. 2. Moral rules, like stoning unmarried mothers and oppressing homosexuals. 3. It may be a matter of opinion, but to me, those who vehemently believe one religion, and refuse to accept other religions could be the “correct” one, that’s those with the closed minds. Those of us who are atheist or agnostic would immediately turn to a religion in the face of clear, undeniable evidence of its truth. Those who are religious continue to argue against scientific evidence that disagrees with their belief. Opening your mind allows you to view many possibilities. Sticking to your guns against any potential form of evidence is being close minded. 4. One true God...what evidence is there to support that the Biblical God is the true one, and not those of Hindu beliefs, Greek mythology, Ancient Egyptian beliefs, or a random tribe in the Amazon rainforest? 5. Well, for a start this God excludes homosexuals. 1. Religion and Christianity are two very different things. I know many people like to lump them together. Religion worships false gods. Their is only one creator God - by definition and in actual fact.. 2. Where does Christianity promote either of these? The 1st you get from an O.T. rule that Judaism held to, The 2nd does not appear anywhere in the Bible.. 3. There may be 100 different treasure maps telling you where a vast haul of gold lies. But if 99 end with nothing and 1 takes you to the gold, I would say that was the right one. You might not like it, but that is the reality. To turn without evidence would be a bit daft... I used to NOT believe.. but I am "sure and certain" now. That quote comes from "God's Word" Hebrews 11:1 , and is echoed in places like Titus 1:2. Christianity is not BLIND FAITH it is sure and certain. You might not like this, but actually it gives the utmost assurance that you have made the best decision that you can. So it is beyond the pale for me that anything could be produced to prove otherwise. e.g. You believe you have blood in your veins - it is a fact - someone may come along and change the name blood, but you still know it is there and that it is necessary for life. I know that encountering God is necessary for eternal life. I am not ramming this discovery down anyone's faces - I am simply letting folk know which treasure map to explore if they want the pure gold. AND yes folk will mock me and so on... it does not mean I am bad or stupid either.. I have seen people discover it too, a number have come from other faiths which did not satisfy them... 4. The Biblical God can be encountered in this life - no drugs necessary - the others are all either attempts to worship the one they did not know or designed as deceptions by God's enemy who "rules the earth for a time"... God is the real One. There is a great passage in the Bible, Acts chapter 17 where it is clear the people were religious, but the Apostle Paul points them to the REAL God. When he explains it some become believers while others sneered - it is still the same. Those who hear with an open mind discover the real God, while others are so transfixed in their position that they miss out. 5. Does he? God hates sin and evil. Are adulterers excluded to? What about liars and fraudsters? What about thief's? The point is that none of us are perfect.. if what we do harms others and is outside God's rules - which are there to keep us from hurting ourselves and others, then we are living in sin (and all that goes with it, bitterness, guilt, shame etc.)…(A very high percentage of people with mental health issues carry shame and guilt) by becoming a Christian we don't instantly become sinless but the sanctification process starts... I know people who were in all of the above camps before they realised that something was wrong in their life.. they all are no longer driven to do the things which did them and others harm - the adulterer now warns people of the emptiness he felt and the damage he did... John 3 is very helpful here and especially verses 16 -21. Christianity sets people free from guilt and shame (Terrible isn't it?) I am interested why twice above you speak about homosexuals - are you one, do you have one or more among your family and friends, or are you just using this as it is the flavour of the month to have a go at Christians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Arthur Blair Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 1. Religion and Christianity are two very different things. I know many people like to lump them together. Religion worships false gods. There is only one God... I refer you to the Ricky Gervais clip previously posted. 5. Does he? God hates sin and evil. I refer you to the Stephen Fry clip previously posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 18 hours ago, antrin said: Sadam Hussein was definitely NOT a god-botherer. SH held to the muslim faith - ALLAH And he didn't kill and destroy half as much as the US Christians and their Allies did, sadly... and to our shame. Two wrongs don't make anything right. Was it only Christians from the US and its allies that did this? Also the moral rules in the Bible were being developed by the Greeks. And others... way before JC stepped onto the planet. There are also Greek influences in the New Testament but there are many foundational things before these in the Bible and which are factors in Great Britain's legal systems and laws Or are you picking and choosing like others above? Not sure what you are getting at here? Only wanting the New Testament when it suits? Once again don't know what you are thinking. The OT was given to Israel as God's chosen people, but as part of God's plan, through them He would be revealed to all nations - In Genesis 12.3, the Lord promised Abraham that in him all the families of the earth would be blessed, but Genesis 22.18 explains that promise more. Christians don't do animal sacrifices do we? There are things which have been superseded! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 5. Does he? God hates sin and evil. Are adulterers excluded to? What about liars and fraudsters? What about thief's? The point is that none of us are perfect.. if what we do harms others and is outside God's rules - which are there to keep us from hurting ourselves and others, then we are living in sin (and all that goes with it, bitterness, guilt, shame etc.)…(A very high percentage of people with mental health issues carry shame and guilt) by becoming a Christian we don't instantly become sinless but the sanctification process starts... I know people who were in all of the above camps before they realised that something was wrong in their life.. they all are no longer driven to do the things which did them and others harm - the adulterer now warns people of the emptiness he felt and the damage he did... John 3 is very helpful here and especially verses 16 -21. Christianity sets people free from guilt and shame (Terrible isn't it?) I am interested why twice above you speak about homosexuals - are you one, do you have one or more among your family and friends, or are you just using this as it is the flavour of the month to have a go at Christians? You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)Seems pretty clear to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 39 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said: Sadam Hussein was definitely NOT a god-botherer. SH held to the muslim faith - ALLAH He didn't you know. He may have been raised in that and occasionally indulged it for public practical reasons, but he was a very secular and selfish man. It was all about him. And he didn't kill and destroy half as much as the US Christians and their Allies did, sadly... and to our shame. Two wrongs don't make anything right. Was it only Christians from the US and its allies that did this? Do you honestly know nothing about the Iraq wars and the carnage we wreaked on those poor people? Or are you turning the Christian other cheek, just so you can ignore what out shite government connived in? Also the moral rules in the Bible were being developed by the Greeks. And others... way before JC stepped onto the planet. There are also Greek influences in the New Testament but there are many foundational things before these in the Bible and which are factors in Great Britain's legal systems and laws I thought this was a bleeding obvious bit of news, But you seemed to have not known about it, nor acknowledged it. That is the reason I was pointing it out to you when you attributed all things 'good' to christianity. Or are you picking and choosing like others above? Not sure what you are getting at here? And I can't be arsed looking back to check what that was. Only wanting the New Testament when it suits? Once again don't know what you are thinking. The OT was given to Israel as God's chosen people, but as part of God's plan, through them He would be revealed to all nations - In Genesis 12.3, the Lord promised Abraham that in him all the families of the earth would be blessed, but Genesis 22.18 explains that promise more. christians don't do animal sacrifices, do we? There are things which have been superseded christians don't do animal sacrifices, do we? There are things which have been superseded. Great! This is progress. A start, but progress, nonetheless. Perhaps in a century or two, 90% of the fairy tales and dubious practices may be discarded. You're a nice guy, but a lost cause. I don't have the patience of slarti to indulge this hogwash, I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said: Not content with your god handing out childhood cancer and allowing Free WILL sexual offences, now mental illness is due to people not being christians? And the cure starts by becoming christian? Go f**k yourself ya sick weirdo c**t. It is clear you don't want any debate and just want to stone all Christians - I highlight your ridiculous assertion above - I actually was saying the opposite that shame and guilt are common causes behind a lot of mental health.. but you are hell bent on not being up for any real debate just abuse.. I have offered you plenty to look at in the past.. I won't spoon feed you because you would rather starve than give up your position.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said: It is clear you don't want any debate and just want to stone all Christians - I highlight your ridiculous assertion above - I actually was saying the opposite that shame and guilt are common causes behind a lot of mental health.. but you are hell bent on not being up for any real debate just abuse.. I have offered you plenty to look at in the past.. I won't spoon feed you because you would rather starve than give up your position.. Indeed, but many afflicted are suffering shame and guilt because of their religious beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 4 hours ago, salmonbuddie said: You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22) If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13) Seems pretty clear to me. God does not hate anyone - he hates sin of ALL kinds - I explained why.... here is a reference that hopefully might help :- For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God. And here is another : - The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. Do you think a JUST and HOLY God should tolerate evil of ALL kinds and not detest it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, smcc said: Indeed, but many afflicted are suffering shame and guilt because of their religious beliefs. I have pastored a lot of people suffering from mental health and many others in prisons too - a few decades ago the split in those who had religious belief's and those who did not was roughly the same percentage of people in the wider society who have a faith upbringing and those who had not - although this has changed markedly with the lower age demographic as less people are being brought up in a faith background these days - so guilt and shame are still there without any religious pressures or teaching... we in the main have a conscience either way... In prisons though those NOT from a faith background are a bigger percentage than the average in society - and only the sociopaths, psychopaths and a few other groups who don't feel shame and guilt like the rest of society and are the exceptions to the rule. ...i.e. it seems that the moral grounding of faith keeps more people out of prison in general.. If you don't believe me - do your own research - ask Chaplains of these two situations or those at the top of the tree in these areas.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 God does not hate anyone - he hates sin of ALL kinds - I explained why.... here is a reference that hopefully might help :- For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God. And here is another : - The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. Do you think a JUST and HOLY God should tolerate evil of ALL kinds and not detest it? Nope, I think he/she shouldn't allow it. Hardly JUST if you have the power to stop something but don't bother your arse, is it? And are you saying homosexuality is evil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweeper07 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, salmonbuddie said: Nope, I think he/she shouldn't allow it. Hardly JUST if you have the power to stop something but don't bother your arse, is it? So God should step in and fix everything and we don't need to take any responsibility for our own harmful behaviour, words and actions? We could just be mindless puppets or Robots then.... And are you saying homosexuality is evil? No but if anything, as I have said including adultery etc hurts others that cannot be good right? Edited August 16, 2019 by Sweeper07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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