Heaven & Hell Thread. Naw, Just Fecking Hell.

[salmonbuddie]

"So God should step in and fix everything and we don't need to take any responsibility for our own harmful behaviour, words and actions? We could just be mindless puppets or Robots then...."

We're made in his/her image (allegedly), so not stepping in when he/she can excuses all the humans who do the same, then? After all, they're only copying their maker. What would he/she think of someone who had the power to prevent evil but chose to ignore it?

"No but if anything, as I have said including adultery etc hurts others that cannot be good right?"

That's not what Leviticus says, though, is it? Do you believe that homosexuality is punishable by death like it says, yes or no? And I'm talking lifelong, practicing, homosexuals here who have no intention of ever becoming celibate.

And before you try to straw man me by asking why I'm so interested in homosexuality, blah, blah, blah, my sexuality is neither relevant to this debate nor any of your business.

[Doakes]

This is where religion loses me. If used as a framework, fine. When you start talking about “god” as the man in the sky that gives a shit what you do - I don’t buy that. If anyone was going to analyse your life, it would be your inner self. You can lie to others, but you can’t lie to yourself.... 

For me “god” would just be another name for whatever created our existence. 

[oaksoft]

3 minutes ago, Doakes said:

This is where religion loses me. If used as a framework, fine. When you start talking about “god” as the man in the sky that gives a shit what you do - I don’t buy that. If anyone was going to analyse your life, it would be your inner self. You can lie to others, but you can’t lie to yourself.... 

For me “god” would just be another name for whatever created our existence. 

This stuff sweep is posting is the sort of harmful batshit crazy garbage which I believe the rest of society should be protecting children from. No child should be subjected to this.

[smcc]

2 hours ago, Sweeper07 said:

I have pastored a lot of people suffering from mental health and many others in prisons too - a few decades ago the split in those who had religious belief's and those who did not was roughly the same percentage of people in the wider society who have a faith upbringing and those who had not - although this has changed markedly with the lower age demographic as less people are being brought up in a faith background these days - so guilt and shame are still there without any religious pressures or teaching... we in the main have a conscience either way...

In prisons though those NOT from a faith background are  a bigger percentage than the average in society - and only the sociopaths, psychopaths and a few other groups who don't feel shame and guilt like the rest of society and are the exceptions to the rule. ...i.e. it seems that the moral grounding of faith keeps more people out of prison in general..

If you don't believe me - do your own research - ask Chaplains of these two situations or those at the top of the tree in these areas..

Did I mention prisons?

[Doakes]

3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

This stuff sweep is posting is the sort of harmful batshit crazy garbage which I believe the rest of society should be protecting children from. No child should be subjected to this.

Fully agreed. 

There’s no harm in learning about different religions and reading the literature, but having that kind of made up nonsense thrown at you at a young age is borderline child abuse. 

[Doakes]

39 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

53 minutes ago, Doakes said:

This is where religion loses me. If used as a framework, fine. When you start talking about “god” as the man in the sky that gives a shit what you do - I don’t buy that. If anyone was going to analyse your life, it would be your inner self. You can lie to others, but you can’t lie to yourself.... 
For me “god” would just be another name for whatever created our existence. 

From all the evidence our existence is natural, so you would be saying that the cosmos is god.

There’s no way of knowing for sure what “god” is. Science says everything came from a “big bang”, which essentially created “something” out of “nothing”, that somehow led to everything we see around us today. 

If you want my opinion, down a major rabbit hole here  I’d guess that the bible has been deliberately misinterpreted at various points in history (means of control), leading to some believing the literal interpretation of something that was wrote to be allegorical and a snapshot of what those people had experienced in the past. From what I’ve learned, there’s possibly several dimensions and several layers of consciousness, that can be accessed via meditation, psychedelic drugs, and in some cases near death experiences. Moses and the burning bush, Ezekiel and the 3 burning wheels... even the design of the pyramids, there’s so much evidence that points to knowledge coming from a source that isn’t easily accessed. 

[whydowebother]

Who does homosexuality hurt?

Probably the guy trying it for the first time ? [emoji2]

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, Doakes said:

Fully agreed. 

There’s no harm in learning about different religions and reading the literature, but having that kind of made up nonsense thrown at you at a young age is borderline child abuse. 

That is the very phrase I was meaning to use but I forgot to type it,

[Cornwall_Saint]

10 hours ago, Sweeper07 said:

1. Religion and Christianity are two very different things. I know many people like to lump them together. Religion worships false gods. Their is only one creator God - by definition and in actual fact..

2. Where does Christianity promote either of these? The 1st you get from an O.T. rule that Judaism held to, The 2nd does not appear anywhere in the Bible..

3. There may be 100 different treasure maps telling you where a vast haul of gold lies. But if 99 end with nothing and 1 takes you to the gold, I would say that was the right one. You might not like it, but that is the reality. To turn without evidence would be a bit daft... I used to NOT believe.. but I am "sure and certain" now. That quote comes from "God's Word" Hebrews 11:1 , and is echoed in places like Titus 1:2. Christianity is not BLIND FAITH it is sure and certain. You might not like this, but actually it gives the utmost assurance that you have made the best decision that you can. So it is beyond the pale for me that anything could be produced to prove otherwise. e.g. You believe you have blood in your veins - it is a fact - someone may come along and change the name blood, but you still know it is there and that it is necessary for life. I know that encountering God is necessary for eternal life. I am not ramming this discovery down anyone's faces - I am simply letting folk know which treasure map to explore if they want the pure gold. AND yes folk will mock me and so on... it does not mean I am bad or stupid either.. I have seen people discover it too, a number have come from other faiths which did not satisfy them...

4. The Biblical God can be encountered in this life - no drugs necessary - the others are all either  attempts to worship the one they did not know or designed as deceptions by God's enemy who "rules the earth for a time"... God  is the real One. There is a great passage in the Bible, Acts chapter 17 where it is clear the people were religious, but the Apostle Paul points them to the REAL God. When he explains it some become believers while others sneered - it is still the same. Those who hear with an open mind discover the real God, while others are so transfixed in their position that they miss out.

5. Does he? God hates sin and evil. Are adulterers excluded to?  What about liars and fraudsters? What about thief's? The point is that none of us are perfect.. if what we do harms others and is outside God's rules - which are there to keep us from hurting ourselves and others, then we are living in sin (and all that goes with it, bitterness, guilt, shame etc.)…(A very high percentage of people with mental health issues carry shame and guilt)  by becoming a Christian we don't instantly become sinless but the sanctification process starts... I know people who were in all of the above camps before they realised that something was wrong in their life.. they all are no longer driven to do the things which did them and others harm - the adulterer now warns people of the emptiness he felt and the damage he did... John 3 is very helpful here and especially verses 16 -21. Christianity sets people free from guilt and shame (Terrible isn't it?)

I am interested why twice above you speak about homosexuals - are you one, do you have one or more among your family and friends, or are you just using this as it is the flavour of the month to have a go at Christians?

 

1) There are of course many false gods out there. Using the word fact doesn’t make your statement correct.

2) You’ve been proven wrong on the 2nd not appearing anywhere. You don’t like the first rule being fact so you’re basically blaming the Jews for it.

3) You are using quotes from a random book written two thousand years ago, and which has been edited a number of times since. I could start throwing around quotes from the Quran - it wouldn’t mean I was right. Quotes alone from a book are not evidence - that’s like saying the human race was saved from Lord Voldemort because it was written down that Harry Potter destroyed his horcruxes and then killed him. You show certainty in your treasure map being the correct one, but there is no definitive prove whatsoever that your map is the sole truth.

It most definitely is blind faith considering the only “evidence” is the Bible. That’s no different to following the Quran, Torah or the Lord of the Rings series. 

4) Again you are using Bible passages as “evidence”. Again I could easily claim Hogwarts is real and we just can’t find or see it because to Muggles, it just looks like a bunch of ruins. You mention an open mind - my mind is open. I don’t follow a religion, but I’m open to the idea of a creator in the same way I’m open to it all being a random event (albeit it leaves the question of who created the creator). I keep an open mind because quite simply, there currently is no definite answer as to how the universe came into being. My open mind rules out any God who only sends you to heaven if you’ve “believed” in him. For instance, let’s take a child born into war in Syria. Raised as a Muslim. Upon seeing the injuries, fatalities and devastation upon his country, he vows to become a doctor to help those in need. He qualifies, and now there’s an ongoing war in, let’s say Kuwait. He risks his life to save lives in Kuwait, and even through hearing the bombs go off every day, seeing the horrific injuries, he stays at great risk to his life to help these people, sacrificing a better life where he had the option to move and live in France, working in safe conditions. One day the inevitable happens and he’s killed. All the time he’s stuck to his Muslim Faith. This guy gave up his life to help others, but because he had the wrong religion, he goes to hell? There is no way I can believe in a God or creator who would do that if he had a heaven and hell. “You were a great person, but you believed in a false god, so it’s the pit of fire for you!”

5) Reading this, it appears you seem to think homosexuality is akin to that of adultery, thieving, lying and committing fraud. “Noticed there was something wrong in their life”, are you seriously saying homosexuality is “wrong?” That’s a f**king disgusting comment to make, never mind the comparison of what’s been said above.

The adulterer you mention above doesn’t necessarily need to be religious to know and admit he’s done wrong. Many people can see the wrongs of their ways and admit them without using religion as a guide. Correcting errors in some cases can free you from guilt and shame, again you don’t need a religion to do that. 

My sexual orientation shouldn’t matter here. But to answer the question, I’m straight. In fact, of my friends and family, I know of only one who’s gay. The reason I stand up for it is because I despise oppression. There are countries in the world who still execute people simply for being gay, including some of those wonderful ex-British empire countries. Punished just because they are attracted to their own. It’s not a choice, it’s how you feel. I remember when as a kid, I started to find girls attractive in a way I’d never thought of boys like. Something which has always been the case for me. I imagine it’s the same for everyone, and in the case of homosexuals, they just find that attractiveness in those of the same sex instead of the opposite. There is no right and wrong in love, if two people love each other and want to be happy together, then their gender doesn’t matter. They aren’t hurting anyone else, unlike the adulterers, fraudsters and liars you mention.

By all means, I will damn well use it as a “flavour of the month” to have a go at Christians, and those of other religions too. Thanks to these religions, people get killed because of their sexual orientation. Every country who executes for this has a strong religious presence (largely Christian or Muslim). As I said I despise oppression, and I will always state a case to defend the oppressed, whether it’s homosexuals, the Palestinians being bludgeoned by Israel, the Rohingya being wiped out in Myanmar, and even where Christians get prosecuted for their own beliefs. The world would be a much better place without the oppression we see so often. As long as they aren’t hurting anyone, we should let people be what they want to be and do what they like.

3 hours ago, Doakes said:

This is where religion loses me. If used as a framework, fine. When you start talking about “god” as the man in the sky that gives a shit what you do - I don’t buy that. If anyone was going to analyse your life, it would be your inner self. You can lie to others, but you can’t lie to yourself.... 

For me “god” would just be another name for whatever created our existence. 

If there was a heaven and hell, then I highly doubt the “creator/s” would base their judgements on things like belief. It would be on how good a life you led, your treatment of others, much like the Ancient Egyptian belief of weighing your heart on the scales. A good heart would be light, a bad heart would sink the scale and condemn you to “hell”.

[Doakes]

57 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

 

If someone wants to name some arbitrary thing (universe, cosmos, nature, whatever) as god, then that is up to them. It's not what I mean when I talk about "god".

 

Sorry, but science doesn't say that something came from nothing. It says it doesn't know. It might be the case that having "nothing" is impossible. It cannot be tested as we cannot get a sample of "nothing" as, by definition, it would then be "something". That's the reason it's not "down a major rabbit hole".

 

I quite agree that the majority of it was probably not meant to be taken literally, but that doesn't stop people from doing so. I've already mentioned that it was probably written from the perspective (and knowledge) of people at the time and place of writing.

 

There is actually a middle eastern bush (can't recall it's name off hand) that "appears" to burst into flames for no apparent reason. The writers at the time would have known about it (being from the area) but wouldn't have known the reason it did so, and therefore it would have been easy, and understandable, to attribute it to something supernatural.

 

Most biblical scholars, religious and not, agree that Moses did not exist and, therefore, that story could never have happened It is definite that the Israelites were never enslaved in Egypt.

 

Ezekiel's wheels does seem like something written by someone who's stoned, I'll give you that.

 

It would come as no shock to me if there were other dimensions. Other layers of consciousness is something that you would have to explain.

 

Your mind trying, and failing, to make sense of things when on drugs or near death does not count as "layers of consciousness", IMO.

 

I don't understand what you are referring to when talking about the design of the pyramids. Please explain.

 

If you think about it, unless we’re stuck in a loop, something HAD to come from nothing. Otherwise, how did it begin? 

People taking religion literally is ridiculous, I think most people can agree on that. 

I’ve read about that bush, but I favour the theory that a burning bush was an acacia which gives off a natural release of dimethyltryptamine. Would explain why Moses, or whatever the name Moses represents, was having a conversation with, and receiving information from a bush. 

It’s difficult to explain layers of consciousness and access to other dimensions, in basic terms- if you look at the eye of Ra/Horus (ancient Egypt), there’s an undeniable link to the pineal gland, located in the brain. 

Humans have 5 basic senses; sight, hearing, smell, taste and touch. There’s also this alleged access to other dimensions and layers of consciousness via the pineal gland being stimulated/activated. It’s worth looking into if you’ve never read about it. 

There’s also some very dark shady shit that the “elite” believe with regards to energy from children - think, Epstein etc. But this isn’t the place to get into that. 

 

Edited August 16, 2019 by Doakes

[antrin]

8 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

 

There is actually a middle eastern bush (can't recall it's name off hand) that "appears" to burst into flames for no apparent reason. The writers at the time would have known about it (being from the area) but wouldn't have known the reason it did so, and therefore it would have been easy, and understandable, to attribute it to something supernatural.

Ezekiel's wheels does seem like something written by someone who's stoned, I'll give you that.

 

Dictamnus albus.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictamnus

also known as the gas plant, it exudes potentially flammable gases.

 

the link below may also offer an explanation for Ezekiel’s wheels...?

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/you-asked/there-scientific-explanation-behind-moses-and-burning-bush

[Wendy Saintss]

Who does homosexuality hurt?

It may hurt those involved if not properly lubricated.

[DougJamie]

I must be religious as i said Jesus Christ 73 times during our Betfred campaign

[DougJamie]

47 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

Heard a few Holy fcuks and God help us.

And God or Goody has.

I will go with Goody. As demonstrated with Red sea parting... God is a bit to offensive for our present tactical set up...

[oaksoft]

My own gut feeling is that there are more dimensions out there than we can perceive and that this is the reason why we can't fathom the big bang theory or whatever started things off.

For example, if we only existed in 2 dimensions, a sphere passing through our world would make no sense at all. It would start from nothing, appear as a point, grow to a line and then diminish back to a point before going back to nothing again (see the very short book Flatland for more of this). If you add a 3rd dimension (for depth) a sphere doesn't change at all.

I reckon this is what we are seeing with the weird things which happen at atomic scales (quantum mechanics) and also with things like forces (gravity etc) on larger scales. I reckon if we lived in x dimensions we'd see these things as standard simple things.

I like the idea that we are on earth as a sort of training secondment before moving onto more interesting things.

I am also fascinated by consciousness and where that comes from. We can transplant every organ and consciousness does not travel with the organ so IMO it must be in the brain. If we successfully transplant Oaky's brain into slarti's head who wakes up? Is it me or slarti or does consciousness exist in a higher dimension which disconnects from the human body on death and some bastardised mutation of both of us appears?

Pluripotent cells are also fascinating. I understand about DNA, protein formation etc but all cells start from a generic sperm and an ova. Where is the instruction set to tell the embryotic pluripotent cells to differentiate into liver cells instead of kidney cells etc?

The "sixth sense" stuff is interesting. At the atomic level we see evidence that objects exhibit both particle and wave behaviour. As things grow bigger the wave behaviour plays a progressively smaller role but it never goes to zero IMO. Therefore I believe humans emit very high short range frequencies. When we approach someone our waves interfere in a constructive or destructive manner and I like to think that is where our gut "sense" of instantly liking or disliking someone comes from before we get a chance to even think through how we feel about them. If we do have wave behaviours could you diffract a human through a wall? I reckon you could if the gaps in the wall molecules approached the wavelength of a human (special respect for anyone who can work out what that would be. Hint - Louis de Broglie won a Nobel Prize for this). Maybe the wall isn't too dense to diffract through. Maybe it's just not dense enough (and possibly too thick).

I love thinking about stuff like this.

Edited August 17, 2019 by oaksoft

[Cornwall_Saint]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

I like the idea that we are on earth as a sort of training secondment before moving onto more interesting things.

One of the ideas I like to imagine is that Earth is an experimental planet, used as a guide by an alien race to build future, better planets and civilisations. There may be a few hundred, possibly few thousand of us who have been placed here by the aliens, but we don’t know that (perhaps we are part of that alien race). Then when you “die”, you go back and report on how the Earth is doing. “Yes humans are still blowing each other up, this thing is problematic, but this thing is great”. They use the returned information as guidance to create better futures on their next designs.

I’m not saying it’s true, nor am I saying I believe it. But it’s great to theorise about potential ideas, as we simply do not know what’s out there, and how everything came into being.

I also like to make a point the Ancient Egyptians worshipped cats, and cats are always around, watching everything that’s going on, almost as if they are there to report back to their leader. Again, I’m not saying it’s true, but it can’t be ruled out any more than most other theories. In a way it’s a beautiful thing, not knowing what’s really going on as it allows your imagination to thrive on it.

[FTOF]

2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

 

Pluripotent cells are also fascinating. I understand about DNA, proteins etc but all cells start from a generic sperm and an ova. Where is the instruction set to tell the embryotic pluripotent cells to differentiate into liver cells instead of kidney cells etc?

 

Cells/organisms that are produced asexually do not start in that manner.

There might be an organism in one of the previous generations that has been produced sexually, but there are many organisms that don't require a sperm cell to produce offspring.

The instructions for cell differentiation are set in the cell's DNA. This is influenced in the first instance by the basic genetic code on the DNA, but there is increasing evidence that epigenetics play a significant part in cell differentiation and the subsequent development of an organism.

Most people think that identical twins have identical DNA. On the surface it may look like it, but at an epigenetic level, there can be many differences in the DNA structure. Not so much in the basic nucleotide sequences, but in relation to modifications of the base molecules by methylation etc. The latter being one of the mechanisms under investigation for the development of Huntington's, Parkinson's and Alzheimer's in later life.

It is one of the many truly fascinating areas of Biology. 

 

[oaksoft]

24 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

One of the ideas I like to imagine is that Earth is an experimental planet, used as a guide by an alien race to build future, better planets and civilisations. There may be a few hundred, possibly few thousand of us who have been placed here by the aliens, but we don’t know that (perhaps we are part of that alien race). Then when you “die”, you go back and report on how the Earth is doing. “Yes humans are still blowing each other up, this thing is problematic, but this thing is great”. They use the returned information as guidance to create better futures on their next designs.

I’m not saying it’s true, nor am I saying I believe it. But it’s great to theorise about potential ideas, as we simply do not know what’s out there, and how everything came into being.

I also like to make a point the Ancient Egyptians worshipped cats, and cats are always around, watching everything that’s going on, almost as if they are there to report back to their leader. Again, I’m not saying it’s true, but it can’t be ruled out any more than most other theories. In a way it’s a beautiful thing, not knowing what’s really going on as it allows your imagination to thrive on it.

Oh I agree. I couldn't agree more. Others will think there is a sky fairy up there looking after everyone and it's this vision of religion which I believe each person should be free to hold thoughts about.

[oaksoft]

9 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Cells/organisms that are produced asexually do not start in that manner.

There might be an organism in one of the previous generations that has been produced sexually, but there are many organisms that don't require a sperm cell to produce offspring.

The instructions for cell differentiation are set in the cell's DNA. This is influenced in the first instance by the basic genetic code on the DNA, but there is increasing evidence that epigenetics play a significant part in cell differentiation and the subsequent development of an organism.

Most people think that identical twins have identical DNA. On the surface it may look like it, but at an epigenetic level, there can be many differences in the DNA structure. Not so much in the basic nucleotide sequences, but in relation to modifications of the base molecules by methylation etc. The latter being one of the mechanisms under investigation for the development of Huntington's, Parkinson's and Alzheimer's in later life.

It is one of the many truly fascinating areas of Biology. 

 

I was thinking more specifically in terms of humans but yes you are correct about asexual reproduction.

I understand that DNA holds the code to the different cells but a liver cell contains the exact same DNA as a kidney cell. Why are these two cells expressing different proteins when they both start off the same? I read a book about epigenetics a while ago and I can't remember if it explains the answer to this question. That might be something I'll pick up this week. Thanks for the tip.

That bit in bold is really fascinating. I remember being in a lecture a many years ago on how the cis-platin drug works by deforming DNA around an area where a harmful cancer-causing protein is expressed to prevent further expression of that protein. If my memory serves me correctly, I think it literally sticks to two nucleotides and drags them closer together bending the entire DNA molecule out of shape.

It's all the little co-incidences which are particularly brilliant. For example, the matching of the retina sensitivity to visible light and the fact that all physical macro-sized objects reflect light in that tony part of the spectrum. Anything else and we'd be bumping into and tripping over things all the time. Another one is that animals breathe out carbon dioxide and breath in oxygen whilst plants do the opposite to balance things out and that without death being a thing, there would be no food for those plants - essentially without death, there would be no life. I'm also pretty sure that a scientist out there tried to create life in a beaker just using what was predicted to have been there at the start of life and if I remember right, some nucleotides formed by themselves. There is nothing out there to match the magic of science IMO.

[Sweeper07]

20 hours ago, smcc said:

Did I mention prisons?

No you did not but there are many folk in them for the same kind of reasons . . .mental health, shame, hurt and guilt etc. sorry you did not get that.. all people matter though right?

[Sweeper07]

16 hours ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

1) There are of course many false gods out there. Using the word fact doesn’t make your statement correct.

2) You’ve been proven wrong on the 2nd not appearing anywhere. You don’t like the first rule being fact so you’re basically blaming the Jews for it.

3) You are using quotes from a random book written two thousand years ago, and which has been edited a number of times since. I could start throwing around quotes from the Quran - it wouldn’t mean I was right. Quotes alone from a book are not evidence - that’s like saying the human race was saved from Lord Voldemort because it was written down that Harry Potter destroyed his horcruxes and then killed him. You show certainty in your treasure map being the correct one, but there is no definitive prove whatsoever that your map is the sole truth.

It most definitely is blind faith considering the only “evidence” is the Bible. That’s no different to following the Quran, Torah or the Lord of the Rings series. 

4) Again you are using Bible passages as “evidence”. Again I could easily claim Hogwarts is real and we just can’t find or see it because to Muggles, it just looks like a bunch of ruins. You mention an open mind - my mind is open. I don’t follow a religion, but I’m open to the idea of a creator in the same way I’m open to it all being a random event (albeit it leaves the question of who created the creator). I keep an open mind because quite simply, there currently is no definite answer as to how the universe came into being. My open mind rules out any God who only sends you to heaven if you’ve “believed” in him. For instance, let’s take a child born into war in Syria. Raised as a Muslim. Upon seeing the injuries, fatalities and devastation upon his country, he vows to become a doctor to help those in need. He qualifies, and now there’s an ongoing war in, let’s say Kuwait. He risks his life to save lives in Kuwait, and even through hearing the bombs go off every day, seeing the horrific injuries, he stays at great risk to his life to help these people, sacrificing a better life where he had the option to move and live in France, working in safe conditions. One day the inevitable happens and he’s killed. All the time he’s stuck to his Muslim Faith. This guy gave up his life to help others, but because he had the wrong religion, he goes to hell? There is no way I can believe in a God or creator who would do that if he had a heaven and hell. “You were a great person, but you believed in a false god, so it’s the pit of fire for you!”

5) Reading this, it appears you seem to think homosexuality is akin to that of adultery, thieving, lying and committing fraud. “Noticed there was something wrong in their life”, are you seriously saying homosexuality is “wrong?” That’s a f**king disgusting comment to make, never mind the comparison of what’s been said above.

The adulterer you mention above doesn’t necessarily need to be religious to know and admit he’s done wrong. Many people can see the wrongs of their ways and admit them without using religion as a guide. Correcting errors in some cases can free you from guilt and shame, again you don’t need a religion to do that. 

My sexual orientation shouldn’t matter here. But to answer the question, I’m straight. In fact, of my friends and family, I know of only one who’s gay. The reason I stand up for it is because I despise oppression. There are countries in the world who still execute people simply for being gay, including some of those wonderful ex-British empire countries. Punished just because they are attracted to their own. It’s not a choice, it’s how you feel. I remember when as a kid, I started to find girls attractive in a way I’d never thought of boys like. Something which has always been the case for me. I imagine it’s the same for everyone, and in the case of homosexuals, they just find that attractiveness in those of the same sex instead of the opposite. There is no right and wrong in love, if two people love each other and want to be happy together, then their gender doesn’t matter. They aren’t hurting anyone else, unlike the adulterers, fraudsters and liars you mention.

By all means, I will damn well use it as a “flavour of the month” to have a go at Christians, and those of other religions too. Thanks to these religions, people get killed because of their sexual orientation. Every country who executes for this has a strong religious presence (largely Christian or Muslim). As I said I despise oppression, and I will always state a case to defend the oppressed, whether it’s homosexuals, the Palestinians being bludgeoned by Israel, the Rohingya being wiped out in Myanmar, and even where Christians get prosecuted for their own beliefs. The world would be a much better place without the oppression we see so often. As long as they aren’t hurting anyone, we should let people be what they want to be and do what they like.

If there was a heaven and hell, then I highly doubt the “creator/s” would base their judgements on things like belief. It would be on how good a life you led, your treatment of others, much like the Ancient Egyptian belief of weighing your heart on the scales. A good heart would be light, a bad heart would sink the scale and condemn you to “hell”.

Lots of opinions shared - too many points to answer without it be 20 times as long as your essay... it's not a cop out - you have stated your position and you are ok having a swipe at Christians and presuming things which are NOT TRUE... investigate it further and be sure what you believe is right...

ALL people, religious and otherwise do harm to others...(we live in a fallen world) but you cannot EARN your way into eternity - it is a free gift for ALL who truly want it - to want it you need to actually hear about what is on offer and what that means for you personally...

I have been incredibly lucky to see many people turning their lives around completely - because someone cared for them, accepted them and told them why they cared so much. Many others did not want to explore God further - their choice, but I can think of none who did not want the missing bit of the "life jigsaw", who went looking and did not find it... you can make your own choice, so if I am actually right (Which you very strongly doubt), do you think Christians should not try to help people to find the missing piece in their lives?  Everyone has a cross shaped hole in their hearts - ONLY JESUS can fill it... the proof of the pudding is in the tasting, not in the denial that it is a pudding...

[Sweeper07]

20 hours ago, Doakes said:

Fully agreed. 

There’s no harm in learning about different religions and reading the literature, but having that kind of made up nonsense thrown at you at a young age is borderline child abuse. 

You think that EVERYTHING children get taught in schools is good and right then?  If so I think that is a bit naïve... 

[FTOF]

I was thinking more specifically in terms of humans but yes you are correct about asexual reproduction.
I understand that DNA holds the code to the different cells but a liver cell contains the exact same DNA as a kidney cell. Why are these two cells expressing different proteins when they both start off the same? I read a book about epigenetics a while ago and I can't remember if it explains the answer to this question. That might be something I'll pick up this week. Thanks for the tip.
That bit in bold is really fascinating. I remember being in a lecture a many years ago on how the cis-platin drug works by deforming DNA around an area where a harmful cancer-causing protein is expressed to prevent further expression of that protein. If my memory serves me correctly, I think it literally sticks to two nucleotides and drags them closer together bending the entire DNA molecule out of shape.
It's all the little co-incidences which are particularly brilliant. For example, the matching of the retina sensitivity to visible light and the fact that all physical macro-sized objects reflect light in that tony part of the spectrum. Anything else and we'd be bumping into and tripping over things all the time. Another one is that animals breathe out carbon dioxide and breath in oxygen whilst plants do the opposite to balance things out and that without death being a thing, there would be no food for those plants - essentially without death, there would be no life. I'm also pretty sure that a scientist out there tried to create life in a beaker just using what was predicted to have been there at the start of life and if I remember right, some nucleotides formed by themselves. There is nothing out there to match the magic of science IMO.

They reckon that the reason why cells with exactly the same genes produce different characteristics is down to transcription factors and the process of alternative RNA splicing. The latter process allows different forms of proteins - isoforms - to be produced by the same gene. It has been found that this process occurs far more frequently than previously believed. Studies of transcription factors have pretty much been limited due to constraints in the technology required to study it. However, the evidence obtained points towards the action of transcription factors collecting and processing information available to embryonic cells and directing them down a specific developmental pathway. Although, I find in depth reading about transcription factors and their workings makes my head hurt.

[FTOF]

You think that EVERYTHING children get taught in schools is good and right then?  If so I think that is a bit naïve... 

So what do pupils get taught in school that isn't good or right?

[Sweeper07]

7 minutes ago, FTOF said:

26 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said:

You think that EVERYTHING children get taught in schools is good and right then?  If so I think that is a bit naïve... 

So what do pupils get taught in school that isn't good or right?

You think everything they get taught is - we know everything right?