magnus Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 Is it good that the Scottish Government is going to take this over or not? I drive past the yard regularly and although I have no connection with shipbuilding I like the idea of it being retained and supported on the Clyde. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, magnus said: Is it good that the Scottish Government is going to take this over or not? I drive past the yard regularly and although I have no connection with shipbuilding I like the idea of it being retained and supported on the Clyde. Tough call. I like the idea of retaining the skills base. But. The gov has a big stake in BiFab in Fife. Orders and costs are the imponderables. Political decision. Edited August 14, 2019 by St.Ricky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, St.Ricky said: Tough call. I like the idea of retaining the skills base. But. The gov has a big stake in BiFab in Fife. Orders and costs are the imponfetsbles. Political decision. Word of the day.................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 What's the realistic alternative. Not ideal but probably the only way to salvage the cal mac contracts and preserve jobs but how long for is debatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 1 hour ago, faraway saint said: Word of the day.................... An added bonus in yet another stunning fence-sitting post. 🤣 Honestly, what is the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, oaksoft said: An added bonus in yet another stunning fence-sitting post. 🤣 Honestly, what is the point. Almost none. So devoid of thought, never mind original thought, that he's a great advert for euthanasia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, oaksoft said: An added bonus in yet another stunning fence-sitting post. 🤣 Honestly, what is the point. It's a political decision oaksoft not an economic one. The economic one short term would be to let the place close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 What is the issue with Ferguson marine? They bid for a contract and are now saying they can't deliver as their costs have risen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 3 hours ago, faraway saint said: 3 hours ago, St.Ricky said: Tough call. I like the idea of retaining the skills base. But. The gov has a big stake in BiFab in Fife. Orders and costs are the imponfetsbles. Political decision. Word of the day.................... ffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 1 hour ago, St.Ricky said: 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: An added bonus in yet another stunning fence-sitting post. 🤣 Honestly, what is the point. It's a political decision oaksoft not an economic one. The economic one short term would be to let the place close. three words. Steelworks Coalmines Shipyards Whatever happened to the workshop of the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: What is the issue with Ferguson marine? They bid for a contract and are now saying they can't deliver as their costs have risen? I heard part of an interview with McColl and he stated that he had indeed signed a fixed contract with the government worth a £97 million. However, he then went on to say that because the vessels had prototype engines, that the costs were bound to rise, and that the engine design had been modified more than once. However, on further questioning it appeared that any cost increases had not been factored in to the fixed contract price bid. McColl had a meeting with the FM, where he was informed that there would be no more money forthcoming to pay for the vessels, as a fixed contract had been signed. It sounded to me as if Ferguson marine had been looking for more money than they were due, in order to bail them out. I might have picked it up wrongly though. Edited August 14, 2019 by FTOF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, jaybee said: three words. Steelworks Coalmines Shipyards Whatever happened to the workshop of the world? Employment rights, higher wages, globalisation and a society fixated on the lowest price regardless of the consequences. I can't comment on the quality of the British products. Additionally, a complacent society used to being the best. We have been left behind in virtually everything to hungrier and more motivated nations. You see this in everything from engineering to football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, FTOF said: I heard part of an interview with McColl and he stated that he had indeed signed a fixed contract with the government worth a £97 million. However, he then went on to say that because the vessels had prototype engines, that the costs were bound to rise, and that the engine design had been modified more than once. However, on further questioning it appeared that any cost increases had not been factored in to the fixed contract price bid. McColl had a meeting with the FM, where he was informed that there would be no more money forthcoming to pay for the vessels, as a fixed contract had been signed. It sounded to me as if Ferguson marine had been looking for more money than they were due, in order to bail them out. I might have picked it up wrongly though. McColl didn't become a billionaire by acting for the common good but did so through making hard nosed business decisions. Over to the politicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) The Ferguson is going through money at a hugely alarming rate. Two Cal Mac ferry's cost has went up 100% 97 odd million paid out already. Ons ferry is in the water still far from completion. The other ferry is a quarter of skeleton steel well away from completion. This is a financial disaster on a huge scale almost criminal. The Scottish Government should not go near it. How much more money needs to be thrown at two ferry's ? This is why the Scottish government want to nationalise the yard. Not the work force, its the money they have already spent on ferry's that are not ready. Monumental disaster political bull shit. Edited August 14, 2019 by Isle Of Bute Saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 The Ferguson is going through money at a hugely alarming rate. Two Cal Mac ferry's cost has went up 100% 97 odd million paid out already. Ons ferry is in the water still far for completion. The other ferry is a quarter of skeleton of steel well away for completion. This is a financial disaster on a huge scale almost criminal. The Scottish Government should not go near it. How much more money needs to be thrown at two ferry's ? This is why the Scottish government want to nationalise the yard. Not the work force, its the money they have already spent on ferry's that are not ready. Monumental disaster political bull shit. What was the final cost of the Scottish Parliament building as opposed to the original quote and who paid for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said: 4 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: The Ferguson is going through money at a hugely alarming rate. Two Cal Mac ferry's cost has went up 100% 97 odd million paid out already. Ons ferry is in the water still far for completion. The other ferry is a quarter of skeleton of steel well away for completion. This is a financial disaster on a huge scale almost criminal. The Scottish Government should not go near it. How much more money needs to be thrown at two ferry's ? This is why the Scottish government want to nationalise the yard. Not the work force, its the money they have already spent on ferry's that are not ready. Monumental disaster political bull shit. What was the final cost of the Scottish Parliament building as opposed to the original quote and who paid for it? Your right when there was a building in the heart of Edinburgh fit for a parliament I dont know the name of the building it looks sort of classic Greek look to it. But all that money wasted on a new building wrapped in bamboo that building is horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 3 hours ago, St.Ricky said: It's a political decision oaksoft not an economic one. The economic one short term would be to let the place close. And do what Ricky, leave all the work that has been done to go into disrepair and then refinance two new build boats that are desperately needed......don’t talk nonsense, it’s financial as much as it is political, most of the structural work has been done on one of the boats and around half of the other one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: The Ferguson is going through money at a hugely alarming rate. Two Cal Mac ferry's cost has went up 100% 97 odd million paid out already. Ons ferry is in the water still far for completion. The other ferry is a quarter of skeleton of steel well away for completion. This is a financial disaster on a huge scale almost criminal. The Scottish Government should not go near it. How much more money needs to be thrown at two ferry's ? This is why the Scottish government want to nationalise the yard. Not the work force, its the money they have already spent on ferry's that are not ready. Monumental disaster political bull shit. Where would the money come from to pay for two new build boats IoBS, you’ll probably not give two hoots as Bute has two perfectly modern and functioning ferries, other islands need the two new ferries completed as the old fleet is no longer fit for purpose and as CMAL is pretty well government owned they’d be shooting themselves in the foot to scrap what’s already there!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, WeeBud said: And do what Ricky, leave all the work that has been done to go into disrepair and then refinance two new build boats that are desperately needed......don’t talk nonsense, it’s financial as much as it is political, most of the structural work has been done on one of the boats and around half of the other one That would be a problem for the new owners WeeBud. One, I hope they would address quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pod Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: The Ferguson is going through money at a hugely alarming rate. Two Cal Mac ferry's cost has went up 100% 97 odd million paid out already. Ons ferry is in the water still far for completion. The other ferry is a quarter of skeleton of steel well away for completion. This is a financial disaster on a huge scale almost criminal. The Scottish Government should not go near it. How much more money needs to be thrown at two ferry's ? This is why the Scottish government want to nationalise the yard. Not the work force, its the money they have already spent on ferry's that are not ready. Monumental disaster political bull shit. The problem was they kept changing the spec. and addition work at no extra cost. The same reason that ended Scott Lithgow's yard with Ocean Alliance...http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=2942706 Where was the Scottish Government before McColl step in. Edited August 14, 2019 by pod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: Your right when there was a building in the heart of Edinburgh fit for a parliament I dont know the name of the building it looks sort of classic Greek look to it. But all that money wasted on a new building wrapped in bamboo that building is horrible. The old High School I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 Just now, WeeBud said: Where would the money come from to pay for two new build boats IoBS, you’ll probably not give two hoots as Bute has two perfectly modern and functioning ferries, other islands need the two new ferries completed as the old fleet is no longer fit for purpose and as CMAL is pretty well government owned they’d be shooting themselves in the foot to scrap what’s already there!! That's why I said the Scottish government will nationalise the yard. It's not to help the work force. Its financial and political. A never ending stream of money at this level will mean a shortage somewhere else possibly affecting us all. Government money projects haemorrhage money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeBud Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: That's why I said the Scottish government will nationalise the yard. It's not to help the work force. Its financial and political. A never ending stream of money at this level will mean a shortage somewhere else possibly affecting us all. Government money projects haemorrhage money. It’ll also give the yard time to build up an order book that will sustain the workforce (hopefully). There are quite big plans afoot with regards to building specialised fishing vessels going forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: Nationalise it, merge it with CalMac and let CalMac build their own ferries. Or just build lots of bridges and tunnels. Sorted. Your last bit is correct Norway, Denmark, Sweden build bridges and tunnels to islands. Cal Mac run at a loss they are propped up with government cash. Western Ferry's do the same job as cal Mac but make a profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted August 14, 2019 Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 6 minutes ago, pod said: The problem was they kept changing the spec. and addition work at no extra cost. Where was the Scottish Government before McColl step in. McColl got 2 things. Contracts and funding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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