bazil85 Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I didn't ask for a lecture on software development. I know exactly what I am talking about. There are plenty of free open source content management systems out there which come with good security features. You don't need to create one from scratch. Not a single person suggested that. I asked a very specific question. Do you have an answer? If not kindly stop polluting the thread. You asked ‘why buy an off the shelf package’ I gave several reasons why they might. Never a claim they were fact, just a potential answer to your question As I said, these software programs are aimed at a certain group of people, why not SMISA? I don’t know for fact that this is a better option than custom built & neither do you. I am merely speculating to why they went down this route like you’re speculating (as you often do) the negative regarding a SMISA decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, faraway saint said: His reply will be along the lines of........................... "Where did I say I was an expert" "Prove it" Etc etc etc. Actually on this subject I’d probably say I was an expert. 🤫 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, bazil85 said: Actually on this subject I’d probably say I was an expert. 🤫 FFS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bazil85 said: I don’t know for fact that this is a better option than custom built & neither do you. Which is why I was ASKING questions. Why you felt the need to answer if you genuinely didn't know is beyond me. Just say you don't know and leave it at that. Edited August 21, 2019 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, bazil85 said: T Is it just a matter of fact there are cheaper options in paying someone to build a custom build system & the thousands of companies using these systems with likely many IT experts employed know less than a few guys on BAWA with I imagine little exposure to this specific system? This sort of patronising nonsense is why people can't stand you on here. I guarantee you that this forum has highly knowledgeable software development people, some of them running their own businesses. Working for an IT company does not make you more knowledgeable than those who work for themselves. What a stupid thing to say. Edited August 21, 2019 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bazil85 said: Actually on this subject I’d probably say I was an expert. 🤫 If you don't know about customising things like Joomla CMS's then I say you were barely competent to comment let alone call yourself an expert. Now if someone on here ACTUALLY knows whether using something like Joomla was considered and discarded then I'd be happy to hear about it. Edited August 21, 2019 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Which is why I was ASKING questions. Why you felt the need to answer if you genuinely didn't know is beyond me. Just say you don't know and leave it at that. So you asked that question on a discussion forum, knowing all the reasons I quoted expecting someone to be able to give you an informed answer & that no one would come back with speculation? Behave. Again your go to. Ask a question then when you get a response ‘that’s not what I meant’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, oaksoft said: This sort of patronising nonsense is why people can't stand you on here. I guarantee you that this forum has highly knowledgeable software development people, some of them running their own businesses. Working for an IT company does not make you more knowledgeable than those who work for themselves. Everyone with exposure to the system put your hands up. Edit: that’s a bit like saying someone that owns 100 farms knows more about milking a cow than a diary farmer. Don’t be so ridiculous! Yet again I’ve tried to have a balanced conversation backing up a subject to do with BTB & get absolutely hounded by those that as sure as the sun will rise post a negative spin on absolutely anything to do with SMISA Edited August 21, 2019 by bazil85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just now, bazil85 said: Everyone with exposure to the system put your hands up. 1 minute ago, bazil85 said: So you asked that question on a discussion forum, knowing all the reasons I quoted expecting someone to be able to give you an informed answer & that no one would come back with speculation? Behave. Again your go to. Ask a question then when you get a response ‘that’s not what I meant’ I am not arguing with you. Period. If anyone else has actual answers I'd be glad to hear it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, oaksoft said: If you don't know about customising things like Joomla CMS's then I say you were barely competent to comment. So are custom build software solutions always the best option in this scenario & SMISA have made a mistake or are you just making a negative assumption based on our shared knowledge on this specific subject? You’re one of the most negative, miserable contributors on here, it’s shocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I am not arguing with you. Period. If anyone else has actual answers I'd be glad to hear it. That’s fine, we can wait till the next SMISA update for your negative POV. Let’s be honest, that’s absolutely the way it’ll go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, faraway saint said: His reply will be along the lines of........................... "Where did I say I was an expert" "Prove it" Etc etc etc. Additional posts so far include the usual tactic of making up completely imaginary arguments up and then arguing against them to the death. Some crackers today already :- 1) He infers someone that alternatives would need to replicate the exact system SMISA have bought when that is not necessary and nobody argued for this. 2) That any "customised solution" would need to be hand-coded from scratch when nobody suggested this and all that would be required would be a little customisation of a free Content Management Systems with a few extensions installed. 3) That asking questions is "negative". 4) That if you don't have detailed knowledge of this specific hugely expensive software solution then you can't have a credible view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted August 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 Back to the main question about whether the recurring expenditure of £300 every month is value for money...The original SMISA email said..."The system will be used initially just for membership administration purposes, but once we are sure that it has bedded in and members have registered on it, we will begin to explore the additional functionality that it offers (e.g. ballots and events), and gradually roll these out to members."So initially just for membership admin services...Then, having committed to spending the equivalent of twenty five membership fees, they will "explore" the additional functionality.Now... Had I ever submitted a business plan or grant application like that... ... [emoji850] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 (edited) 34 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Additional posts so far include the usual tactic of making up completely imaginary arguments up and then arguing against them to the death. Some crackers today already :- 1) He infers someone that alternatives would need to replicate the exact system SMISA have bought when that is not necessary and nobody argued for this. 2) That any "customised solution" would need to be hand-coded from scratch when nobody suggested this and all that would be required would be a little customisation of a free Content Management Systems with a few extensions installed. 3) That asking questions is "negative". 4) That if you don't have detailed knowledge of this specific hugely expensive software solution then you can't have a credible view. The reality is, this thread has followed the exact same pattern as previous communications from SMISA. A handful of contributors put a negative spin on it, yourself included. Then get defensive at me for pointing out said negativity. Up there with death & taxes. Your numbers above are your go to technique on obscure commenting, predictable. Edited August 21, 2019 by bazil85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted August 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 Additional posts so far include the usual tactic of making up completely imaginary arguments up and then arguing against them to the death. Some crackers today already :- 1) He infers someone that alternatives would need to replicate the exact system SMISA have bought when that is not necessary and nobody argued for this. 2) That any "customised solution" would need to be hand-coded from scratch when nobody suggested this and all that would be required would be a little customisation of a free Content Management Systems with a few extensions installed. 3) That asking questions is "negative". 4) That if you don't have detailed knowledge of this specific hugely expensive software solution then you can't have a credible view.The reality is, this thread has followed the exact same pattern as previous communications from SMISA.A handful of contributors dare to simply ask questions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 Rattling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 This sort of patronising nonsense is why people can't stand you on here.We are through the looking glass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmac Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 Seville Gin Milhouse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 41 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: We are through the looking glass... Yes we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 On the face of it, in the age of cloud based applications I would tend to agree that £300 a month to maintain and manage a database of just 1200 members seems on the expensive side. Sure the platform does a lot more than just CRM though and I’m also sure it’s been well thought out so look forward to seeing it in action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 And there we have it, the closest thing to an expert on here(probably) reckons it's on the expensive side. Now even if div has no interest in creating or maintaining something for this, he's the ideal guy to ask the question of "do you think this is decent value for money" If there is also a spend limit on what can be approved then the question should've been asked to the membership. If its been thought out and is without doubt the best option then it would probably be approved, but it's about the process. If that's what the process is(and I'm taking LPMs word for it) then the question should've been asked. That's not negative, it's not moaning about the spend, it's about following any processes that have been agreed. Giving the information and letting people decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted August 22, 2019 Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, slapsalmon said: And there we have it, the closest thing to an expert on here(probably) reckons it's on the expensive side. Now even if div has no interest in creating or maintaining something for this, he's the ideal guy to ask the question of "do you think this is decent value for money" If there is also a spend limit on what can be approved then the question should've been asked to the membership. If its been thought out and is without doubt the best option then it would probably be approved, but it's about the process. If that's what the process is(and I'm taking LPMs word for it) then the question should've been asked. That's not negative, it's not moaning about the spend, it's about following any processes that have been agreed. Giving the information and letting people decide. Div put up a very well balanced comment and caveated his response with the system having much more capability than we’ll initially use it for & that he’s sure it’s been thought out. It’s always good practice to test a system & not go 0 to 60 reliance with its capability. Your last sentence in the third paragraph is where the main problem in that point sits. correct not negative not moaning just an opinion & not a claim they haven’t followed process. very fair. Edited August 22, 2019 by bazil85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldorf34 Posted August 22, 2019 Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, bazil85 said: Div put up a very well balanced comment and caveated his response with the system having much more capability than we’ll initially use it for & that he’s sure it’s been thought out. It’s always good practice to test a system & not go 0 to 60 reliance with its capability. Your last sentence in the third paragraph is where the main problem in that point sits. correct not negative not moaning just an opinion & not a claim they haven’t followed process. very fair. There goes that "we"again. This spend must be put to the membership Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted August 22, 2019 Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 11 hours ago, bazil85 said: .....that’s a bit like saying someone that owns 100 farms knows more about milking a cow than a diary farmer. Don’t be so ridiculous! I’d be pretty sure that the guy owning 100 farms knows much more than the other guy because it’s very likely that at least one of the 100 farms has non-beef cattle on it. Whereas the diary farmer...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted August 22, 2019 Report Share Posted August 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, antrin said: I’d be pretty sure that the guy owning 100 farms knows much more than the other guy because it’s very likely that at least one of the 100 farms has non-beef cattle on it. Whereas the diary farmer...? I just noticed that he posted that cow analogy. No idea what he's going on about but the dairy farmer lacks the vision and appreciation of the bigger picture. Not sure what that has to do with a comparison between expert IT freelancers and IT employees. They both code directly. Maybe Baz doesn't realise that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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