faraway saint Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 In serious trouble. Wouldn't like to be on, or going on, holiday with them. Need £200m to bail them out and quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalky1 Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 It's been on the cards for sometime, we were on Holiday in June with Thomas Cook and we heard about it end of last year. Wouldn't like to be going away just now or away at the moment. Seen also that some people are not willing to pay the final payments due to the uncertainty. Which only adds to the pressure of raising funds., but totally understand why you wouldn't pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, chalky1 said: It's been on the cards for sometime, we were on Holiday in June with Thomas Cook and we heard about it end of last year. Wouldn't like to be going away just now or away at the moment. Seen also that some people are not willing to pay the final payments due to the uncertainty. Which only adds to the pressure of raising funds., but totally understand why you wouldn't pay. Some good deals for a weekend in Hong Kong just now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 hour ago, faraway saint said: In serious trouble. Wouldn't like to be on, or going on, holiday with them. Need £200m to bail them out and quick. Not my fault I was offered a job with them during a round of golf at Gleneagles a number of years ago but turned it down. Administration perhaps with an investor taking it over whilst agreement with creditors reduces the debt burden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 I just seen an item on the BBC news where analyst informed us that when people pay for hotels, before they go on holiday, good old Tam Cook doesn't pay until the holiday makers are home. So around now their are having to pay all the hotels........................where the feck did all the money go that was paid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, faraway saint said: I just seen an item on the BBC news where analyst informed us that when people pay for hotels, before they go on holiday, good old Tam Cook doesn't pay until the holiday makers are home. So around now their are having to pay all the hotels........................where the feck did all the money go that was paid? That's not new. Pretty standard in that industry. In a tangential way Travel Money Travellers Cheques worked in the same way. There was an average period of say 21 days before people drew their money so the business had that to use or invest in the money market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalky1 Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 They've still got to fly their planes and pay staff, but yes heard that also, I think most tour operators don't pay the hotel until after you have stayed. Ps also need to pay bonuses to the directors etc and pay to take Ricky golfing to offer him a job, lol. Ricky's expenses soon add up, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 21, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, chalky1 said: They've still got to fly their planes and pay staff, but yes heard that also, I think most tour operators don't pay the hotel until after you have stayed. Ps also need to pay bonuses to the directors etc and pay to take Ricky golfing to offer him a job, lol. Ricky's expenses soon add up, lol That crossed my mind, £1.5 BILLION in debt, like to see a breakdown where that money went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalky1 Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 1 minute ago, faraway saint said: That crossed my mind, £1.5 BILLION in debt, like to see a breakdown where that money went. I'm sure they raised capital last year by selling assets and from that the rumours started, which now appear to be true. Don't understand how business can keep operating at such losses. Also seen last night that they have approached the Government asking for 200 million bail out. No doubt that will go ahead and then their board will all receive Knighthoods, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, chalky1 said: They've still got to fly their planes and pay staff, but yes heard that also, I think most tour operators don't pay the hotel until after you have stayed. Ps also need to pay bonuses to the directors etc and pay to take Ricky golfing to offer him a job, lol. Ricky's expenses soon add up, lol I think that was the point. They did like to splash the cash. The directors I met were doing rather nicely thank you. The industry has been undergoing big changes. Flight only deals with independent travellers don't bring the same profit margins. Changes in currency fluctuations dont help, although they will have hedged against this to some extent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) Their ‘mercurial’ CEO (Manny Fontenla-Novoa)had the idea that if they had more shops open (at a time when everyone else is divesting themselves of such assets) then they would have a better chance of selling holidays. MFN was replaced in 2012 by Harriet Green who started stripping out 200 shops and making 2500 staff redundant. She was pushed out in 2014 after cutting losses by £100m pa. Share prices crashed at her removal. And all sorts of problems are now being cited. Eg terrorism, fear of Brexit etc - all things all companies face. there are still 600ish shops in the UK - three near me that I never knew existed tillI Google’s earlier this morning. That’s a lot of property AND staff tied up doing little, in the era of online shopping. They face a lot of pain, now. people who use shops for holidays (no offence intended) tend to have less money and will also book the cheaper tours. And, aye, chalky, T Cook (I read this morning) pays its hoteliers en masse at the end of summer. I read it has £600m debt and so a bail out of £200m is surface scratching that won’t ease its huge itch. not related but... flight center had a shop in every town/village in NZ/Oz. On the back of that it has grown and extended worldwide to become a mega company. So there are circumstances where shops obviously “work”. It’s now trying to nudge its existing passengers into being online bookers and meeting much resistance. Edited September 21, 2019 by antrin New/extra info as I read other stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 I just seen an item on the BBC news where analyst informed us that when people pay for hotels, before they go on holiday, good old Tam Cook doesn't pay until the holiday makers are home. So around now their are having to pay all the hotels........................where the feck did all the money go that was paid? That money was just resting in their account. © Father Ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, cockles1987 said: I must have misheard them on the tv, I thought they were saying that T Cook couldn't pay the deposits required for reserving the hotels for next year. Aye. (I’ve added to my above post.) The £200m is just to get current holidaymakers back and sort out immediate cash flow. my company reserves, say, 20 rooms in particular hotels for every week, every summer month the, (April to October) same nights, same duration. They pay a fee for that. as holidays approach and tour spaces aren’t taken up, rooms are released for the hotel to sell via other means. at the end we settle up for the rooms used. apart from already very successful hotels, this offers them a guarantee of occupation rates which is great financially. we often use superb newLy opened places that quickly get into a good groove and swiftly dump us, which is a wee bit of a bugger. it also helps new hotels to have SOME people in occupation. Nothing worse than being the only couple down for breakfast and there being 3 or 4 staff listening to your every word. Edited September 21, 2019 by antrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, faraway saint said: I just seen an item on the BBC news where analyst informed us that when people pay for hotels, before they go on holiday, good old Tam Cook doesn't pay until the holiday makers are home. So around now their are having to pay all the hotels........................where the feck did all the money go that was paid? The company has debts of over £1bn, huge operational costs AND a staggering £1.5bn loss from the first 6 months of the financial year. They are finished. No way should any more money be thrown at them. Whoever allowed them to rack up that sort of debt needs to be barred from holding office IMO. Edited September 21, 2019 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TediousTom Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 4 hours ago, faraway saint said: That crossed my mind, £1.5 BILLION in debt, like to see a breakdown where that money went. You can easilly. Thomas Cook are listed on the FTSE index and have been for many years. Allthe financial reports are available, just need to ignore the EBITDA figures as they mean nothing to anyone except vulnerable people with cash to fritter. As someone who owns a share or two I (like many others who follow the markets) have been aware of Thomas Cook's huge debt pile for many a year now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TediousTom Posted September 21, 2019 Report Share Posted September 21, 2019 2 hours ago, oaksoft said: The company has debts of over £1bn, huge operational costs AND a staggering £1.5bn loss from the first 6 months of the financial year. They are finished. No way should any more money be thrown at them. Whoever allowed them to rack up that sort of debt needs to be barred from holding office IMO. Not necessarily, Thomas Cook owns its own airline. That can (and most likely will) be hived off from the business and sold. They are not dead yet, however I would liken them to the job prospects of a Morton supporter, slim to nil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 (edited) I'm apparently flying to Orlando tomorrow. I hope. Credit card have already told me they will refund flights in full which puts mind at ease a wee bit but accommodation, car hire, park tickets etc booked separately. Already making tentative plans to fly to Miami on Tuesday or Wednesday with BA (via Heathrow) and make 4 hour drive up from there if it all goes tits up. Edited September 22, 2019 by djchapsticks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 22, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 54 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: I'm apparently flying to Orlando tomorrow. I hope. Credit card have already told me they will refund flights in full which puts mind at ease a wee bit but accommodation, car hire, park tickets etc booked separately. Already making tentative plans to fly to Miami on Tuesday or Wednesday with BA (via Heathrow) and make 4 hour drive up from there if it all goes tits up. Fingers crossed......................................they go bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Gone. What a mess, next few days will be chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 17 hours ago, djchapsticks said: I'm apparently flying to Orlando tomorrow. I hope. Credit card have already told me they will refund flights in full which puts mind at ease a wee bit but accommodation, car hire, park tickets etc booked separately. Already making tentative plans to fly to Miami on Tuesday or Wednesday with BA (via Heathrow) and make 4 hour drive up from there if it all goes tits up. Hope you get sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 BBC reporter at Palma airport, trying frantically to make his report exciting, stops a couple walking past.............. Good morning, travelling with Thomas Cook..........................no? He then approached 2 Thomas Cook employees, asks them how they feel.....................no comment. He's not having a good day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 The news reported that the Thomas Cook website was still offering holidays until around midnight.................. If anyone was mad enough to book a holiday with them at that time they really need to get a life. There was also a guy who had turned up at an airport at 6 this morning bemoaning he wasn't contacted that his flight was cancelled....................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Arthur Blair Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 Straight to compulsory liquidation shows that there must have been no hope of saving the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djchapsticks Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 hours ago, faraway saint said: Hope you get sorted. I was up most of night when it became obvious what was about to happen. I got onto BA within a couple of minutes of CAA announcement and booked for Miami tomorrow morning. Transferred car hire as well and contacted credit card team at bank for refund on initial flight. My own impact has been minimal compared to some (most, I'd imagine) passengers but then I had a backup plan in mind the whole time. Just got lucky that I got in before the hike as the BA flight to Miami has went up by nearly 200 quid since 2am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 minute ago, djchapsticks said: I was up most of night when it became obvious what was about to happen. I got onto BA within a couple of minutes of CAA announcement and booked for Miami tomorrow morning. Transferred car hire as well and contacted credit card team at bank for refund on initial flight. My own impact has been minimal compared to some (most, I'd imagine) passengers but then I had a backup plan in mind the whole time. Just got lucky that I got in before the hike as the BA flight to Miami has went up by nearly 200 quid since 2am. Remember, any sort of gift from Miami will do, I'm not too fussy. Have a good time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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