Thomas Cook

[Bud the Baker]

14 hours ago, oaksoft said:

1. It is very odd, I agree.

The wider picture IMO is that an unsustainable business was allowed to fail without causing our government to find £200m from the NHS or education. The last time our government bailed out private companies (RBS etc) we ended up with a bill which will probably never be repaid in the lifetime of anyone born in the last 10 years.

I understand the argument about 9000 people on the dole but the reality is that overwhelming majority of those employees will find equivalent jobs in the next 1-3 months.

1. OK I should have ended the statement with a question mark rather than a full stop. It is however not a "very odd" argument as shown by the fact that three other governments mentioned plus other non-government organizations are/were willing to do so.

2.  I remain convinced that a managed run-down of TC would've been a better course than the one chosen by the government, the current repatriation operation is hardly going to be costless. As for bailing out the banks 10 years ago, my main objection there were only a few high profile dismissals while the industry itself was essentially left untouched, the precise cause of the next banking crash is  as yet unknowable but the idea that it won't happen is bizarre - the Government should have demanded a great deal more in return for that bail-out..

3. That's a pretty glib statement.  

Edited September 25, 2019 by Bud the Baker

[Tommy]

I read that the planes bringing the Thomas Cooks clients home have been brought in from all over the world. So my silly question is, why can't they hire the Thomas Cook planes that are lying all over European airports doing nothing, including the 2 I have just seen sitting at Glasgow airport ? [emoji1786]

[oaksoft]

15 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

1. OK I should have ended the statement with a question mark rather than a full stop. It is however not a bizarre argument as shown by the fact that three other governments mentioned plus other non-government organizations are/were willing to do so.

2.  I remain convinced that a managed run-down of TC would've been a better course than the one chosen by the government, the current repatriation operation is hardly going to be costless. As for bailing out the banks 10 years ago, my main objection there were only a few high profile dismissals while the industry itself was essentially left untouched, the precise cause of the next banking crash is  as yet unknowable but the idea that it won't happen is bizarre - the Government should have demanded a great deal more in return for that bail-out..

3. That's a pretty glib statement.  

The vast majority of employees will be in decent work again within a few months. For that few months they'll probably need government support and I'm sure they'll receive it. I'm not sure what you think is insincere about me saying that. I'm not one for wallowing in misery. I've been made redundant before so I know what it's like to have my CV out within 2 hours of leaving the company. What other option is there? Wallowing in pity is an easy option and doesn't help anyone. At least I'm not bragging about my wealth on the same thread.

Other countries being willing to step in is easy. Actually doing it is what counts. The fact is that those other countries didn't step in. It doesn't matter why not. They didn't.

The problem with the managed run-down argument is that the blame for this lies squarely with the TC bosses. It was their duty to sure they had enough money to provide a managed run-down. That is why either criminal proceedings should be looked at against the board members or new legislation should be considered to prevent this type of cowboy business from causing this sort of impact on peoples lives. What they did was utterly f**king reckless and we need a cultural change in business to stop it. This company should have been closing down gradually before the summer hit. The obvious concern now is whether they have any money to pay redundancies and what happens to their pension pot.

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

12 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

You do know that I commented earlier, as I know you also did, that I felt for those who had lost their jobs.

Its clear that when you are out of your knowledge base, as you are here when the comments came to space and facilities in different classes that you resort to huffy, gruff comments and attempted put downs as an attempt to cover up. 

Ah that's OK then. You can boast as much as you like about your wealth on a thread where people have lost their jobs as long as you throw a perfunctory "sorry for your loss" statement first.

My mistake. How silly of me.

Edited September 25, 2019 by oaksoft

[St.Ricky]

50 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Ah that's OK then. You can boast as much as you like about your wealth on a thread where people have lost their jobs as long as you throw a perfunctory "sorry for your loss" statement first.

My mistake. How silly of me.

What have my posts got to do with wealth? I certainly didn't pay for these flights! Nor, I guess did IOBS. 

[pod]

2 hours ago, Tommy said:

I read that the planes bringing the Thomas Cooks clients home have been brought in from all over the world. So my silly question is, why can't they hire the Thomas Cook planes that are lying all over European airports doing nothing, including the 2 I have just seen sitting at Glasgow airport ?

No money for fuel. 

[St.Ricky]

7 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

You wrote that those that were paying you to deduct from your fee better seats on flights. So you did pay for the flights you dimwitted fool.

Actually, no. I earned more than enough so made it part of how I did  business. If I had received more then I would have been paying up front and claiming it back. This would have had cash flow and possible tax implications. I know that a man like you understands this and potential problems with double taxation so I won't explain it to you. 

[billyg]

2 hours ago, Tommy said:

I read that the planes bringing the Thomas Cooks clients home have been brought in from all over the world. So my silly question is, why can't they hire the Thomas Cook planes that are lying all over European airports doing nothing, including the 2 I have just seen sitting at Glasgow airport ?

The airline doesn't have an AOC  !

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_operator's_certificate

[thomsons dropped it]

22 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Here, although my guess would be closer to 20 degrees.

20 degrees off 90 maybe......ie 70 degrees on that protractor 😉 if it was 20 degrees you would be almost horizontal.

[faraway saint]

2 minutes ago, thomsons dropped it said:

20 degrees off 90 maybe......ie 70 degrees on that protractor 😉 if it was 20 degrees you would be almost horizontal.

I assumed people would have known that, apologies for not dumbing it down enough. 

[thomsons dropped it]

5 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

I assumed people would have known that, apologies for not dumbing it down enough. 

I’ve changed since I went into the Office...I’m all Engineering now 😂😂😂

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, St.Ricky said:

What have my posts got to do with wealth? I certainly didn't pay for these flights! Nor, I guess did IOBS. 

 

18 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Actually, no. I earned more than enough so made it part of how I did  business. If I had received more then I would have been paying up front and claiming it back. This would have had cash flow and possible tax implications. I know that a man like you understands this and potential problems with double taxation so I won't explain it to you. 

If you are going to do my work for me I may as well not bother.

[St.Ricky]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

 

If you are going to do my work for me I may as well not bother.

Do you understand double taxation? Do you understand overseas government restrictions on capital movements or the possible impacts of currency fluctuations? I don't think so. I'm perfectly content to believe that you do know your own business 

[St.Ricky]

And you Cocky, are you familiar with double taxation arrangements and their downsides and how to handle them etc.. 

[thomsons dropped it]

Anyway.......Thomas Cook passengers stranded. My Son and his family flew home yesterday from Orlando, they were in the first batch after TC’s demise. Got home five hours late which is a good result considering everything. Looks like ATOL was well prepared and the planes were on standby, if a little behind the times.....😁😁😁. My Son sent me some pics, looked like something from the early 90’s. I’m just glad they are all back with no real drama. Well done ATOL.

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, billyg said:

The airline doesn't have an AOC  !

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_operator's_certificate

Fair due that explained it to me, but it still seem daft to me that they cant used the staff and the planes that took the clients on holiday.

[Bud the Baker]

3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

The vast majority of employees will be in decent work again within a few months. For that few months they'll probably need government support and I'm sure they'll receive it. I'm not sure what you think is insincere about me saying that. I'm not one for wallowing in misery. I've been made redundant before so I know what it's like to have my CV out within 2 hours of leaving the company. What other option is there? Wallowing in pity is an easy option and doesn't help anyone. At least I'm not bragging about my wealth on the same thread.

Other countries being willing to step in is easy. Actually doing it is what counts. The fact is that those other countries didn't step in. It doesn't matter why not. They didn't.

The problem with the managed run-down argument is that the blame for this lies squarely with the TC bosses. It was their duty to sure they had enough money to provide a managed run-down. That is why either criminal proceedings should be looked at against the board members or new legislation should be considered to prevent this type of cowboy business from causing this sort of impact on peoples lives. What they did was utterly f**king reckless and we need a cultural change in business to stop it. This company should have been closing down gradually before the summer hit. The obvious concern now is whether they have any money to pay redundancies and what happens to their pension pot.

 

Germany stepped in to back their TC controlled airline (Condor), after a day of cancelled flight, Denmark stepped in to support Thomas Cook Scandinavia - that's two countries that actually did it, in contrast the UK chose not to support the parent company despite offers of help from Spain & Turkey. I accept a lot of the points you make in the third para - I just think a managed rundown - something like a cessation of new bookings and an attempt to guarantee as much of the already booked business as possible would've been preferable.

 

[St.Ricky]

1 hour ago, cockles1987 said:

No, that's what I've got an accountant for. Doesn't everyone have one.


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Ah.. You would keep him busy then if you worked internationally. Its clear you don't understand what's involved. No worries.. It took me time to learn about it too.