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St Mirren v Hearts, Sat 28th Sept


faraway saint

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33 minutes ago, W6Saint said:

We are toothless but Goodwin in the same breath as Stubbs and Craig is a joke.

Stubbs and Craig not only didn't know a striker if one bit them on the arse, they didn't know defenders either.

One also turned a midfield with the likes of Flynn, McGinn and Magennis into sheer dross. The other relegated a literal future Scotland midfield.

At least with Goodwin we are clearly setup firstly to not concede goals, and its working.

Unfortunately, we aren't scoring a lot of goals but we're not the first team this has happened to. All the best teams are built on a good defence. Goals will come and Goody will come good.

It's fair to say that JG enjoys a history with us that the others didnt. Surely though you can see more shape and purpose to the team than under Stubbs or Craig. Both Ross and Kearney were slow in getting results but they finished up doing well. I'd put Jim in the same position as the last two but feel he has made a better fist of things than they did in their early period. 

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37 minutes ago, W6Saint said:

We are toothless but Goodwin in the same breath as Stubbs and Craig is a joke.

Stubbs and Craig not only didn't know a striker if one bit them on the arse, they didn't know defenders either.

One also turned a midfield with the likes of Flynn, McGinn and Magennis into sheer dross. The other relegated a literal future Scotland midfield.

At least with Goodwin we are clearly setup firstly to not concede goals, and its working.

Unfortunately, we aren't scoring a lot of goals but we're not the first team this has happened to. All the best teams are built on a good defence. Goals will come and Goody will come good.

This is exactly what Gus did built from the back and if Goodie gets the same success as him I will be over the moon. 

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8 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

It's fair to say that JG enjoys a history with us that the others didnt. Surely though you can see more shape and purpose to the team than under Stubbs or Craig. Both Ross and Kearney were slow in getting results but they finished up doing well. I'd put Jim in the same position as the last two but feel he has made a better fist of things than they did in their early period. 

Kearney was absolutely rotten in terms of results until about the end of March. The football was awful the entirety of his 9 months here. Saved from stick due to his manner and 'good guy' image.

Ross was the whole package aside from his first 2 months with a Rae team (albeit in a lower division). Good signing policy, good balance, attacking football, consistency. A real pity we never seen how he could translate this to the Prem.

Hopefully Goody turns out a lot more JR than Kearney.

Edited by W6Saint
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GD is no indication of defensive quality when you can't score. Our defence has been fine and were excellent yesterday. All the issues up top.

We've been reduced to taking some sort of comfort from our defensive quality.
However a quick glance at Goal Diff., puts pay to any shouting.
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10 hours ago, pondsman said:

I think we can all see the area that needs improvement. We have a solid defence, backed up by an excellent goalkeeper. Midfield seems to be working pretty well, with Flynn and Foley developing a good understanding. It's the attack which isn't working. I was surprised that JG started Morias again, as he was very poor against Hamilton. What chance does such a small man have, playing lone striker against tall defenders? Before the game I was sure that Obika would start. At least he's a bit taller! Also thought Danny Mullen was decent when he came on. We urgently need at least one of the strikers to find a scoring touch.

We've depended a lot on Magennis this season, and we see the result when he is even just slightly below par, like yesterday. Kyle McAllister continues to be a bit of a mystery. It's been a while now since we've seen him at his best. He really needs to perform better, and with more consistency.

No mystery. We shouldn't have signed him. It was obvious last season.  3 year contract too.

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8 hours ago, Gordon Urquhart said:

A point against Hearts is never a bad result. Sadly for us last weeks horror show against Hamilton and getting nothing from Livvy or Ross C hurt us badly.

Need to do something urgently up front, the new guys just don't look up to the task. Not going to be easy. 

 

Very disappointing as these were three games we were targeting as points in the bag.

If you can't beat these teams there's very worrying times ahead.

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9 hours ago, Gordon Urquhart said:

A point against Hearts is never a bad result. Sadly for us last weeks horror show against Hamilton and getting nothing from Livvy or Ross C hurt us badly.

Need to do something urgently up front, the new guys just don't look up to the task. Not going to be easy. 

 

I was at the Livvy game. Poor first half. Excellent second half. A draw would have been fair. Didn't make it up to Dingwall but watched the delayed transmission. Very unlucky to lose. Draw would have been fair. I thought we deserved a win against Hamilton. Maybe the return fixtures will go the other way. Very tight though. 

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3 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

We are not "unlucky" in fact it's the very opposite we have been very Lucky to meet Hibs, Sevco, Hearts and Aberdeen when they were all off it, and lose narrowly at County, Livi and draw with Hamilton.
We are lucky to have picked up five points considering we cant score for toffee!

Wow!

I read that and thought, "I really could murder a bit of toffee, right now!"

I don't have any toffee, but I think there's a wee Werther's Original in the cupboard.  Ta, LPM.  :)

 

Yum!  

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Point is a point

Think if you look at our management / coaching staff

Goodwin - strong defensive knowledge

Langfield - strong goalkeeping/defensive knowledge

Lee Sharp - defensive knowledge

Could really benefit from doing a few sessions with a proper attacking coach! We're not losing many goals, just not managing to break teams down

 

 

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On 9/29/2019 at 4:32 PM, W6Saint said:

Kearney was absolutely rotten in terms of results until about the end of March. The football was awful the entirety of his 9 months here. Saved from stick due to his manner and 'good guy' image.

Ross was the whole package aside from his first 2 months with a Rae team (albeit in a lower division). Good signing policy, good balance, attacking football, consistency. A real pity we never seen how he could translate this to the Prem.

Hopefully Goody turns out a lot more JR than Kearney.

I think you are overly-generous on Jack Ross' "good signing policy" in return for shipping out Lawrence Shankland and selling Jason Naismith, Kyle McAllister, Stevie Mallon and Lewis Morgan Jack Ross signed (and re-signed) over 40 players in 3 transfer windows (i.e. 18 months)

1. Craig Storrie 2. Rory Loy - brought in to replace Shankland 3. Pal Fjelde 4. Josh Todd 5. Billy 'The Fish' O' Brien 6. Stellios (was signed twice by Jack Ross) 7. Cammy Smith (was signed twice by Jack Ross). 8. Stephen McGinn (was signed twice by Jack Ross) 9. Adam Eckersley (signed twice by Jack Ross) 10. Harry Davis (signed twice by Jack Ross) 11. Jack Baird (given 2 contract extensions by Jack Ross) 13. Jamie Langfield (player contract extended and brought on to the coaching team by Jack Ross)  14. Ross Stewart 15 Jordan Kirkpatrick 16 Ross Stewart 17. Gregor Buchanan 18. Gary Irvine (contract extension) 22. Dale Hilson. 23. Ian McShane 24. Darryl Duffy 25. Liam Smith 26. Jamie McCart 27. Danny Mullen (signed twice, 2nd time on a 2 and a half year deal when we were heading from the premiership), 28. Ryan Flynn 29. Mark Hill 30. Myles Hippolyte 31. Gary MacKenzie (2 contract extensions from Jack Ross) 32. Massimo Donati (does any signing better illustrate the extravagant spending spree Jack was allowed to go on during his time with us?) 33. Jim Kellerman 34. Paul McGinn.

Inspired signings by Jack Ross (out of 40): Stephen McGinn; Cammy Smith; Adam Eckersley; Harry Davis; (all signed during his 1st window)

Decent signings by Jack Ross: Stellios (1st season); Rory Loy; Craig Samson; Liam Smith; Paul McGinn

Jack Ross signings who only played about 5 games a season or less under him (or subsequent managers): Craig Storrie; Pal Fjelde; Josh Todd; Jamie Langfield; Ross Stewart; Jordan Kirkpatrick, Ross Stewart, Gary Irvine, Dale Hilson, Darryl Duffy, Jamie McCart, Mark Hill, Massimo Donati, Myles Hippolyte, Jim Kellerman, Gregor Buchanan.

Jack Ross signings who looked decent for 6 months before falling out of favour with Jack Ross: Gavin Reilly (still offered a contract extension when we move up a league after being dropped in favour of hardly-scoring Danny Mullen), Ian McShane. Jack Ross didn't win a game until his 4th month in the job (December - after being appointed in September).

Players who did a job at the time: Billy O'Brien (brought in to replace Jamie Langfield - before Jamie Langfield was given a new contract as a player and coach) , Stellios (2nd season).

0% of Jack Ross' punts / investments for the future worked out during his own time at the club - the 2 Ross Stewarts are now playing regular premiership football elsewhere.

The squad inherited by Oran Kearney in the premiership was significantly poorer than the one inherited by Jack Ross in the Championship (Naismith, MacKenzie, Irvine, McAllister, Morgan, Mallan, Shankland!). After the fiasco of Stubbs, Oran brought in Hammill,  Lyness, Ferdinand, Jackson, Hladky, Muzek, Popescu, Dreyer, Lyons,  McAllister, The Duck. I'd suggest that Oran achieved a similar number of inspired signings in 1 transfer window as Jack Ross achieved in 3 and the only players signed by Kearney who hardly featured were the right back (Paul McGinn kept him out the team) and the Duck. 

Edited by Dibbles old paperboy
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On 9/29/2019 at 4:32 PM, W6Saint said:

Kearney was absolutely rotten in terms of results until about the end of March. The football was awful the entirety of his 9 months here. Saved from stick due to his manner and 'good guy' image.

Ross was the whole package aside from his first 2 months with a Rae team (albeit in a lower division). Good signing policy, good balance, attacking football, consistency. A real pity we never seen how he could translate this to the Prem.

Hopefully Goody turns out a lot more JR than Kearney.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your point:

16th February: Aberdeen 2 - St Mirren 2 (just over 2 weeks after Kearney's only transfer window closed)

23rd February: Hearts 1 - St Mirren 1

2nd March: St Mirren 1 - Livingston 0

 

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55 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Don't let the facts get in the way of your point:

16th February: Aberdeen 2 - St Mirren 2 (just over 2 weeks after Kearney's only transfer window closed)

23rd February: Hearts 1 - St Mirren 1

2nd March: St Mirren 1 - Livingston 0

 

2 draws (one thanks to a lucky OG) and a very fortunate win with a goal in the 90th min. 

After the Livi game we went on to lose 3 out of the next 4 games too.

8 points out of a possible 21.

Don't let facts get in the way of your point.

 

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1 hour ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

I think you are overly-generous on Jack Ross' "good signing policy" in return for shipping out Lawrence Shankland and selling Jason Naismith, Kyle McAllister, Stevie Mallon and Lewis Morgan Jack Ross signed (and re-signed) over 40 players in 3 transfer windows (i.e. 18 months)

1. Craig Storrie 2. Rory Loy - brought in to replace Shankland 3. Pal Fjelde 4. Josh Todd 5. Billy 'The Fish' O' Brien 6. Stellios (was signed twice by Jack Ross) 7. Cammy Smith (was signed twice by Jack Ross). 8. Stephen McGinn (was signed twice by Jack Ross) 9. Adam Eckersley (signed twice by Jack Ross) 10. Harry Davis (signed twice by Jack Ross) 11. Jack Baird (given 2 contract extensions by Jack Ross) 13. Jamie Langfield (player contract extended and brought on to the coaching team by Jack Ross)  14. Ross Stewart 15 Jordan Kirkpatrick 16 Ross Stewart 17. Gregor Buchanan 18. Gary Irvine (contract extension) 22. Dale Hilson. 23. Ian McShane 24. Darryl Duffy 25. Liam Smith 26. Jamie McCart 27. Danny Mullen (signed twice, 2nd time on a 2 and a half year deal when we were heading from the premiership), 28. Ryan Flynn 29. Mark Hill 30. Myles Hippolyte 31. Gary MacKenzie (2 contract extensions from Jack Ross) 32. Massimo Donati (does any signing better illustrate the extravagant spending spree Jack was allowed to go on during his time with us?) 33. Jim Kellerman 34. Paul McGinn.

Inspired signings by Jack Ross (out of 40): Stephen McGinn; Cammy Smith; Adam Eckersley; Harry Davis; (all signed during his 1st window)

Decent signings by Jack Ross: Stellios (1st season); Rory Loy; Craig Samson; Liam Smith; Paul McGinn

Jack Ross signings who only played about 5 games a season or less under him (or subsequent managers): Craig Storrie; Pal Fjelde; Josh Todd; Jamie Langfield; Ross Stewart; Jordan Kirkpatrick, Ross Stewart, Gary Irvine, Dale Hilson, Darryl Duffy, Jamie McCart, Mark Hill, Massimo Donati, Myles Hippolyte, Jim Kellerman, Gregor Buchanan.

Jack Ross signings who looked decent for 6 months before falling out of favour with Jack Ross: Gavin Reilly (still offered a contract extension when we move up a league after being dropped in favour of hardly-scoring Danny Mullen), Ian McShane. Jack Ross didn't win a game until his 4th month in the job (December - after being appointed in September).

Players who did a job at the time: Billy O'Brien (brought in to replace Jamie Langfield - before Jamie Langfield was given a new contract as a player and coach) , Stellios (2nd season).

0% of Jack Ross' punts / investments for the future worked out during his own time at the club - the 2 Ross Stewarts are now playing regular premiership football elsewhere.

The squad inherited by Oran Kearney in the premiership was significantly poorer than the one inherited by Jack Ross in the Championship (Naismith, MacKenzie, Irvine, McAllister, Morgan, Mallan, Shankland!). After the fiasco of Stubbs, Oran brought in Hammill,  Lyness, Ferdinand, Jackson, Hladky, Muzek, Popescu, Dreyer, Lyons,  McAllister, The Duck. I'd suggest that Oran achieved a similar number of inspired signings in 1 transfer window as Jack Ross achieved in 3 and the only players signed by Kearney who hardly featured were the right back (Paul McGinn kept him out the team) and the Duck. 

A lot of opinion and not a lot of fact.

The facts are he essentially rebuilt the team in Jan 2017 and kept us up, added another significant amount of players in the summer, followed by another handful of players in the winter to ensure we went up. All targets achieved.

For starts you have Paul McGinn - our POTY as only a decent signing.

I'd also argue 20 goals Gavin Reilly was pretty inspired and Ian McShane with some of the most assists in the league as pretty inspired also. Decent signings for that level.

Both Ross Stewarts as you say are now playing every week and doing well. 2 more good signings in hindsight no longer at club thanks to Mr Stubbs.

Stelios scored some important goals in his time. Where would we be without his double against Hibs in March 2017? Decent signing for that level.

We've yet to see the best of Mullen - he was signed as a project player. Done well in Championship without scoring a lot of goals. Was hardly given a run of games last year and still ended as our top scorer.

Your point about playing 5 games is bizarre - the like of Hilson and McCart were signed to fill gaps... as we know the likes of them came in and done a job when asked. That's the point in having a squad...

Let's not forget OK had Gus M holding his hand during the window to bring in the players you mentioned either. By your own rather bizarre judging process surely Lyons, Dreyer, Duck, Corbu, Musek, Holmes, Ferdinand and Lyness all fall into only the decent/poor/or strange 'less than 5 games' category? Not so impressive when you look at it without bias.

 

Edited by W6Saint
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39 minutes ago, W6Saint said:

2 draws (one thanks to a lucky OG) and a very fortunate win with a goal in the 90th min. 

After the Livi game we went on to lose 3 out of the next 4 games too.

8 points out of a possible 21.

Don't let facts get in the way of your point.

 

If you want to start bringing luck and last minute goals into things:

2nd February: Rangers 4 - St Mirren 0 (Andrew Dallas awards Rangers 5 penalties in 1 game, the first goal from open play came in the 81st minute)

11th March: St Mirren 0 - Kilmarnock 1 (on a horrendous night, we lose to a last minute goal against a team who finish in 3rd place)

27th March: St Johnstone 1 - St Mirren 0 (Simeon Jackson misses that penalty).

 

 

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44 minutes ago, W6Saint said:

A lot of opinion and not a lot of fact.

The facts are he essentially rebuilt the team in Jan 2017 and kept us up, added another significant amount of players in the summer, followed by another handful of players in the winter to ensure we went up. All targets achieved.

For starts you have Paul McGinn - our POTY as only a decent signing.

I'd also argue 20 goals Gavin Reilly was pretty inspired and Ian McShane with some of the most assists in the league as pretty inspired also. Decent signings for that level.

Both Ross Stewarts as you say are now playing every week and doing well. 2 more good signings in hindsight no longer at club thanks to Mr Stubbs.

Stelios scored some important goals in his time. Where would we be without his double against Hibs in March 2017? Decent signing for that level.

We've yet to see the best of Mullen - he was signed as a project player. Done well in Championship without scoring a lot of goals. Was hardly given a run of games last year and still ended as our top scorer.

Your point about playing 5 games is bizarre - the like of Hilson and McCart were signed to fill gaps... as we know the likes of them came in and done a job when asked. That's the point in having a squad...

Let's not forget OK had Gus M holding his hand during the window to bring in the players you mentioned either. By your own rather bizarre judging process surely Lyons, Dreyer, Duck, Corbu, Musek, Holmes, Ferdinand and Lyness all fall into only the decent/poor/or strange 'less than 5 games' category? Not so impressive when you look at it without bias.

 

Alan Stubbs gave both Ross Stewarts about as much game time as Jack Ross did whilst being at he club for a shorter period of time. Jack Ross was the one who dropped Reilly after signing Mullen. Gareth Wardlaw once kept us in the premier league with about his only goal of the season... does he count as a good signing because it was an important goal?

McCart I think played 1 game, possibly two, as did Hill, as did Buchanan, as did Donati, almost half of Jack Ross' signings hardly played for him! Hippolyte signed for us after promotion to the premier league was almost certain... money well spent?

Maybe Jack should have signed Mullen on a 5 year deal so that we can get the best out of him in years 3, 4, and 5?

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Jack this, OK that.  f**k off.  Neither are our manager now and neither is going to be anytime soon. The only thing we need to worry about is how Goody is doing. So far I'd give him a seven. Came in late, Inherited f**k all from OK and built a team that at least looks well organised and difficult to beat. Needs a bit of polish upfront. I'd say we are comparable to Ross Jack's first season team around the start of the transfer window. We had stopped losing every game and resembling the keystone cops, and with a few tweaks and signings,  began to find a goal threat. 

If we can start scoring goals, then I think we'll do alright. 

 

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