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Accounts to Year Ended May 31st 2019

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13 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:
13 hours ago, Tommy said:
Us 100K profit.  Well 436K Loss.

100k profit, massive operating loss... go us!

 

13 hours ago, Tommy said:

Saints makes a profit.      Well makes a loss.

 

34 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Ok try it this way round...    If our gate receipts halved...   We lost £600k European money    And £1.7 million broadcast money...   Would we have fared better?
That's around £3million quid they are down, but only showing a £600k loss...
Whereas all our income streams went up... but we only recorded 10k more profit and a huge operating loss... think about it?

SO LPM are you still rigidly sticking to your Motherwell are run 15 times better than we are ? Cause no sane person believes that !   

Secondly,  do you really think a "huge operating loss" which is not that huge, but leaves us in a reasonable profit (not having to pay too much tax), is worse than [email protected] LOSING £436,000?     CAUSE once again only someone who is bonkers or twisted would believe that!      :hammer  

Lastly didn't Motherwell fritter away the best part of £900,000 - £1,000,000 from the Kipre sale too?

LEARN WHEN TO ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG (You have plenty of chances) and Then stop posting Cr*p :holiday

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SO LPM are you still rigidly sticking to your Motherwell are run 15 times better than we are ? Cause no sane person believes that !   
Secondly,  do you really think a "huge operating loss" which is not that huge, but leaves us in a reasonable profit (not having to pay too much tax), is worse than [email protected] LOSING £436,000?     CAUSE once again only someone who is bonkers or twisted would believe that!      :hammer  
Lastly didn't Motherwell fritter away the best part of £900,000 - £1,000,000 from the Kipre sale too?
LEARN WHEN TO ADMIT YOU WERE WRONG (You have plenty of chances) and Then stop posting Cr*p :holiday
All our revenues went up massively and we record a £900k operating loss.
All Motherwell's revenues went down and their loss is half ours....
Its obvious your good self and others either can't or won't actually read and digest a shitfest accounts report.

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8 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

All our revenues went up massively and we record a £900k operating loss.
All Motherwell's revenues went down and their loss is half ours....
Its obvious your good self and others either can't or won't actually read and digest a shitfest accounts report.

You did not answer my questions as per your usual continual broken record of what you want to railroad through the forum habit.

Remember how you could not grasp what a budget was?  Think you are getting hung up now on Operating Loss when the BOTTOM LINE is we ended the year IN PROFIT and Motherwell ended the year with a £436,000 LOSS - Which one would you like if it was your Business?

In stead of your usual negative ramblings - you should see the positives that despite the chaos of trying to stay up after the Stubbs debacle, we managed to do that AND stay in profit - AND NOT AS YOU CONTINUALLY TOLD US "that the BOD would be kicked out for financial mis-management and racking up huge loses" Which they clearly did not and have not been....

Who damaged you and will you seek help please?  (seriously - your mindset and wellbeing could improve greatly if you did)  :magic

Edited by Sweeper07

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You did not answer my questions as per your usual continual broken record of what you want to railroad through the forum habit.
Remember how you could not grasp what a budget was?  Think you are getting hung up now on Operating Loss when the BOTTOM LINE is we ended the year IN PROFIT and Motherwell ended the year with a £436,000 LOSS - Which one would you like if it was your Business?
In stead of your usual negative ramblings - you should see the positives that despite the chaos of trying to stay up after the Stubbs debacle, we managed to do that AND stay in profit - AND NOT AS YOU CONTINUALLY TOLD US "that the BOD would be kicked out for financial mis-management and racking up huge loses" Which they clearly did not and have not been....
Who damaged you and will you seek help please?  (seriously - your mindset and wellbeing could improve greatly if you did)  :magic
As a business person I would take Motherwell's accounts over ours in a heartbeat.
Their loss was on the back of losing £3m income
We lost £900k even though we took in nearly £1.5million transfer fees, increased gate, prize, broadcast and sponsorship fees.

What's do hard to recognise and admit about that. Our board spaffed a fortune away and still came after smisa members ring fenced funds..!

Theres your £100 k profit right there!

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1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

Ok try it this way round...
If our gate receipts halved...
We lost £600k European money
And £1.7 million broadcast money...
Would we have fared better?
That's around £3million quid they are down, but only showing a £600k loss...

Whereas all our income streams went up... but we only recorded 10k more profit and a huge operating loss... think about it?

Exactly we didn't allow those things to happen as we are better run - glad you are seeing it now !

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14 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:
14 hours ago, Tommy said:
Us 100K profit.
Well 436K Loss.

 

100k profit, massive operating loss... go us!

They have proven year after year that we are a well run club. Back to the legacy of the old board and continued under the new board. Every year you are desperate for our accounts to show we've lost money and went backwards under GLS and every year it doesn't happen. We continue to progress. Not only on the park and league performance but in stadium and training facilities, investment in youth and our academy.  We know this is one of your coping mechanisms through a very tough time of SMFC growth under GLS stewardship. 

It is noted in the accounts that for the coming year we have "flexed to take account of different operating scenarios" why we should take the view of someone with a clear vendetta against our chairman and that's been so very consistently wrong over the years on this subject, is beyond me.

Other clubs have recorded significant losses and some multiple year on year, they have shown poorer scenario planning than SMFC. Well done to all involved on four years of cash profit, an increase on cash in bank and based on performance to date, likely very prudent scenario flexing.  

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Exactly we didn't allow those things to happen as we are better run - glad you are seeing it now !
Urggh!
Well didn't "allow" those things to happen. They simply didn't qualify for Europe, or have a cup run.

Whereas our board's decision have cost us even with rifling smisa funds and kicking families and kids out for racists.
As far as I can see there will be no £1.5m transfer money, Increase in gate, broadcast, sponsor and £50k of smisa fees between know and 31/5/20 end of accounts.
But there is Oran and a couple of players compo deals, and whatever extra may be flung at the squad in January still to hit!
Plus potential unplanned further settlements for injured or underperforming players.

You can see why an offer for Hladky can be tempting.

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Did they record a Staggering £900,000 operating loss like our board managed to do?
Ffs why are people blind to this, these are absolutely piss poor figures, born out of incompetent fiscal and man management. Its criminal.
They will this season due to bagging a manager months into a 3 year deal and the lost of 300K from only giving the bigots 1 stand

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15 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

They have proven year after year that we are a well run club. Back to the legacy of the old board and continued under the new board. Every year you are desperate for our accounts to show we've lost money and went backwards under GLS and every year it doesn't happen. We continue to progress. Not only on the park and league performance but in stadium and training facilities, investment in youth and our academy.  We know this is one of your coping mechanisms through a very tough time of SMFC growth under GLS stewardship. 

It is noted in the accounts that for the coming year we have "flexed to take account of different operating scenarios" why we should take the view of someone with a clear vendetta against our chairman and that's been so very consistently wrong over the years on this subject, is beyond me.

Other clubs have recorded significant losses and some multiple year on year, they have shown poorer scenario planning than SMFC. Well done to all involved on four years of cash profit, an increase on cash in bank and based on performance to date, likely very prudent scenario flexing.  

But be clear these figures are on the back of selling assets,ie young players,and we will no doubt sell our goalkeeper to help balance the books for this financial year.

But just think where we would be if the management f**k ups had not taken place under this board! 

We would not be perennial  relegation favourites  as we would have been able to buy in some quality  players and hung on to our young players. 

Pat on the back for balancing the books but must do better.

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1 minute ago, Lord Pityme said:

Urggh!
Well didn't "allow" those things to happen. They simply didn't qualify for Europe, or have a cup run.

Whereas our board's decision have cost us even with rifling smisa funds and kicking families and kids out for racists.
As far as I can see there will be no £1.5m transfer money, Increase in gate, broadcast, sponsor and £50k of smisa fees between know and 31/5/20 end of accounts.
But there is Oran and a couple of players compo deals, and whatever extra may be flung at the squad in January still to hit!
Plus potential unplanned further settlements for injured or underperforming players.

You can see why an offer for Hladky can be tempting.

And next year at this time, there will be another "as far as I can see" comment from you if we yet again make a profit for the fifth year in a row. 

An offer for Hladky would be tempting regardless if it's the reported £300k. It's £300k or half a season of football. We've already reportedly knocked back £200k so the money can't be dire needed. You again make the most negative assertions ignoring anything positive that counters your view. 

Oh to be so bitter at the progress of the team you "support"

 

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As a business person I would take Motherwell's accounts over ours in a heartbeat.
Their loss was on the back of losing £3m income
We lost £900k even though we took in nearly £1.5million transfer fees, increased gate, prize, broadcast and sponsorship fees.

What's do hard to recognise and admit about that. Our board spaffed a fortune away and still came after smisa members ring fenced funds..!

Theres your £100 k profit right there!
Business person I am at the hospital at the moment so I can keep the seat next to me empty if you want to come up for help

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Just now, waldorf34 said:

But be clear these figures are on the back of selling assets,ie young players,and we will no doubt sell our goalkeeper to help balance the books for this financial year.

But just think where we would be if the management f**k ups had not taken place under this board! 

We would not be perennial  relegation favourites  as we would have been able to buy in some quality  players and hung on to our young players. 

Pat on the back for balancing the books but must do better.

We also need to be clear that the figures are off the back of an almost unprecedented two seasons of massive January clear outs (yet we still spent within our means and on known income streams, no gambling or borrowing). I have never known that to happen before. I don't imagine we will have close to the costs this coming year as we did last because we had to bag almost a full team and a couple of coaching staff. Yes there might be some legacy stuff regarding OK but there is also remaining income from McGinn, European income, Hladky & a far more settled squad. All has the opportunity to leave us in a better position. 

If people want to focus on the sale of assets to balance the books, they also can't ignore the one off expenses. 

As for the management mistake, this is well documented, they made the wrong appointment it's done. It's now about 18 month since that appointment. Time to let it go and some fans to stop throwing it back in their face every opportunity IMO.

They rectified it & unfortunately that cost big bucks. Lessons learned and move on, no need to be still saying "must do better" so far after the event. 

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Would we have spent an extra £1.5m if we hadn't had it?  Do you really think that if we didn't have that come in that we would have recorded a £1.4m loss?
In numbers, Motherwell's "profit" was -436% of ours, we "made" £536,000 more than Motherwell, essentially, over the year, we were over half a million pounds better off than them.
Lol... so now prudent management means f**king up your biggest decisions, and then having to compound that by shelling g out on multiple components deals
That's made my Christmas, so it has. Rotflmao

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2 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Lol... so now prudent management means f**king up your biggest decisions, and then having to compound that by shelling g out on multiple components deals
That's made my Christmas, so it has. Rotflmao

People still holding the Stubbs decision against the BOD 18 months later says more about the people than it does anything else IMO. Mistake made, mistake resolved, let it go. Same way as you still hold a media interview from about four years ago against GLS. 

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4 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Eh ! That makes their accounts even worse then. If they "boosted" (presumably re-invested) a chunk of their previous years profit and subsequently posted a loss then that's more money lost Accounts don't lie !

The accounts certainly don't lie. But I don't think you understand them.

The "boost" from the previous year has no bearing on the profit or loss made. Its not income!

Edited by Hiram Abiff

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2 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Exactly we didn't allow those things to happen as we are better run - glad you are seeing it now !

Motherwell blew £460k of a £1.7 million windfall from the previous season.

St. Mirren blew £1 million of a £1 million windfall within the same season.

I wouldn't class that as us being "better run".

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7 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said:

I doubt that the entire £1 million John McGinn windfall was in the budget at the start of the year. It was squandered on bad managerial, appointments. 

The John McGinn money wouldn't have been in the budget because it wasn't available to late in the English window, we were able to "budget" for that money following completion of the deal. Unfortunately that had to include rectifying the managerial appointment. A mistake made but something that people don't need to keep referring back to. Lessons learned from the look of it & is it really fair to always hold people accountable to their mistake so long after?

2 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said:

Motherwell blew £460k of a £1.7 million windfall from the previous season.

St. Mirren blew £1 million of a £1 million windfall within the same season.

I wouldn't class that as us being "better run".

Motherwell profit last year bucked a trend in a season where they got to two cup finals, a very rare occurrence for a team at their level. Their accounts for several years before it are less than pretty. I think it's a very reasonable claim that we have been better run than them 

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10 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

The John McGinn money wouldn't have been in the budget because it wasn't available to late in the English window, we were able to "budget" for that money following completion of the deal. Unfortunately that had to include rectifying the managerial appointment. A mistake made but something that people don't need to keep referring back to. Lessons learned from the look of it & is it really fair to always hold people accountable to their mistake so long after?

Motherwell profit last year bucked a trend in a season where they got to two cup finals, a very rare occurrence for a team at their level. Their accounts for several years before it are less than pretty. I think it's a very reasonable claim that we have been better run than them 

The magnitude of that mistake in financial terms has only become public knowledge since the accounts were published, ie less than a month ago. I therefore think its perfectly fair to be discussing it. Indeed, its the point of this thread.

I think that comparing how Motherwell were run under previous ownership is irrelevant to this discussion.

Yes, I know that Motherwell's £1.7 million bucked the trend. It was a windfall. That is my point.

They decided to blow a portion of that windfall to subsidise the following season. They didn't blow it all. They have a £1.5 million asset about to return from injury.

St. Mirren blew their entire £1 million windfall on a bad managerial appointment within the same season.

IMO that doesn't show St Mirren as being better run than Motherwell.

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3 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said:

The magnitude of that mistake in financial terms has only become public knowledge since the accounts were published, ie less than a month ago. I therefore think its perfectly fair to be discussing it. Indeed, its the point of this thread.

I don't think that came as a big surprise to anyone, certainly no one that's been on here to witness the conversations & snipping for what feels like forever. Regardless, I'm not saying people shouldn't discuss the accounts. I'm saying it's pointless people continuing to have a go at a managerial appointment mistake, which we have seen. It's done, lessons learned and they acted very fast to damage control it. Indeed if they hadn't it could have been a very different picture was us in the Championship this season. 

I think that comparing how Motherwell were run under previous ownership is irrelevant to this discussion.

I agree to an extent but we only have a short window to review regarding Motherwell. I think how they previously functioned has more relevance, than people referencing the first year when they got income from two cup final runs. Common sense says that will be an anomaly. The expenses and budgeting won't be polar different now under new ownership to it was under old. 

Yes, I know that Motherwell's £1.7 million bucked the trend. It was a windfall. That is my point.

They decided to blow a portion of that windfall to subsidise the following season. They didn't blow it all. They have a £1.5 million asset about to return from injury.

St. Mirren blew their entire £1 million windfall on a bad managerial appointment within the same season.

Back to the first point, it is massively unfortunate the Stubbs appointment, we all know that, it's been getting said in various forms for over 15 months. We were in the situation, no amount of going over old ground will change that. We had to rectify the mistake and that was costly. Continuing to finger point won't move us anywhere and it won't give anyone any new information. The new BOD have done far more good than they've done bad in recent years. That income aside, we've went from 7th in Championship to an SP team, some have been quick enough to forget that. 

IMO that doesn't show St Mirren as being better run than Motherwell.

IMO it shows we made a very costly mistake. I think if we look at that in isolation, fine I can see your point. I think if we look at how the accounts for Motherwell and St Mirren have been over the last few seasons, difference surrounding events & the scenario proofing, it's very clear we've been better run.

But just different opinions. 

 

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3 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

As a business person      Ho Ho are you in the Santa business perhaps for a couple of weeks each year?

  I would take Motherwell's accounts over ours in a heartbeat. What just last years or each of the past say 4 to 10 years?
Their loss was on the back of losing £3m income   - So what - they had a good year with 2 cup finals and sold a player for £1,000,000 - clearly not their norm


We lost £900k even though we took in nearly £1.5million transfer fees, increased gate, prize, broadcast and sponsorship fees.  Did we lose 900k? Should we have kept the dreadful manager and crap players to have saved the money then? What price would you put on us being relegated if we had not spend our funds on improving the team to stay up? I'd say it was money very well spent following the waste of space that Stubbs was? I'd bet more fans would agree with me than you on that point!

What's do hard to recognise and admit about that. Our board spaffed a fortune away and still came after smisa members ring fenced funds..! And still finished the season in the top league, with improving facilities, and a small profit, living within our means and now we have a far better squad. BUT they are not finished there either, more improvements will come - why not appreciate how difficult it has been running this club and despite this the BOD are still managing to improve us year on year?

Theres your £100 k profit right there!  I know, I am delighted it is not a £436,000 loss - but you are not - why oh why? 💖

You are having an awful day - I don't think supporting St. Mirren is good for your health ! It is entertaining for us though so cheers :cheers

Edited by Sweeper07

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So in a nutshell, regardless lets not sack Goody, lets keep playing and developing our kids, lets keep supporting our club by attendance, and under Scott I am right in saying we have increased our turnover by around 60 % ………...

I could not give a flyer what any other club does 

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