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Eric Arthur Blair

St. Mirren v Celtic, 26th December 2019

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6 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

We shouldn't but we have so that cash needs to be recouped somehow. Again I don't disagree with your argument but unfortunately that horse has bolted and we now need to come up with a plan to recoup it if we go back to giving the cheeks 1 stand. I'm not being obtuse here I wholeheartedly agree with getting them to f*&k but if we do we need to replace that revenue. Any business that turned it's back on 80-90k revenue would rightly be pilloried. What's the solution ? For what it's worth if 3000 ST holders were asked to pay £30 more for their ST to keep them to 1 stand I would vote yes in a heartbeat but I know I am in a minority with that.

Under Gordon, the argument is lost because he has personally chosen to make money the only factor.

The alternative is not to be as money obsessed as him and force ourselves to recoup the loss. The alternative is to replace Gordon with a board who will refuse to put the bigot pound ahead of our youngest supporters, who will then devise an appropriate budget in the short term and get cracking on sustainable income generation in the longer term. We should make no future reference to the bigot money in terms of "how much we are losing" or whether we are spinning lies about the 1-stand/2-stand comparison.

Of course, all of that needs to be argued for but that is what I would like to see. I want to see people stop talking about ridiculous nonsense like "holding their noses and taking the cash" on this issue and actually have the moral courage to stand up for our kids.

Edited by oaksoft

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Building support I would say comes primarily through youth and the Club have been very active in that area. It will be years before they are old enough to buy their own season tickets and even then many will be replacing the old codgers on here.

Adults rarely decide to suddenly support a football team and whack out a few hundred quid for a ST.

The many Community initiatives have raised a great deal of awareness in the Club which hopefully may bring in some new support.

But besides Community and targeting children what other practical initatives are there that are being overlooked?
The very youth that are completely cast aside for the games against the OF when all Panda club activities are totally abandoned!

So our primary source of future income is, by your admission, abandoned.

What incentives have we ever tried? Bring a friend for a fiver, for example? Even once?

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6 hours ago, faraway saint said:

^^^^^ Stuck in the past.

Dream on, reality is we are where we are...............................apart from the odd cup final or play off games.

League games we're stuck around 4000 mark.

PS, keep your cock comments to yourself, not my fault you have a fanny. :lol:

BuddieInEK is right about this.

There is next to no marketing strategy and that is certainly one massive reason why we have gaps in the stadium.

Anyone who runs any sort of company knows you can't survive with almost no marketing at all so why don't you understand this very basic principle?

Oh wait I think I might know the answer.......

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7 hours ago, Sonny said:

Two years ago ICT had a 'pay what you want' day with the aim to increase their support. The attendance increase was minimal and takings plumeted as many folk only gave coppers or a few quid to get in. Even with the option of only paying 10p few took it up.

Increasing support takes time and effort (and success). There is no quick fix.

You need both a Sales strategy (which that was) AND you need a marketing strategy.

To sell you need an audience in the first place. Selling 10p tickets without the marketing to generate an enthused audience first  is a waste of time as ICT found.

That is why their initiative failed.

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25 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

The very youth that are completely cast aside for the games against the OF when all Panda club activities are totally abandoned!

So our primary source of future income is, by your admission, abandoned.

What incentives have we ever tried? Bring a friend for a fiver, for example? Even once?

You are of course correct about the first bit. We aim marketing at the kids and then the club engages in a collective brain fart when it comes to the bigot pound.

I would say though that the last sentence I don't agree with because it's a Sales technique without an enthused audience in place first so it's a waste of time. We could really do with people on the board who understand the difference between Sales and Marketing and who especially know how to build an audience through social media. It's a long term strategy which involves less thinking about ticket sales and more thinking about creating a story around the club which young people want to engage with. We need someone who understands how to get an audience through original content creation. I know this sounds like shite but I promise you it isn't.

For example. Youtube is full of people who have f**king millions of followers and who have enormous influence through a genius level aptitude for original content which millions want to actively engage with. If we can persuade even one of them to visit the ground and create a compelling video about us that would get us more publicity than almost anything I can think of and it would cost almost nothing. We could do a lot worse than telling one of them about Div's foodbank campaign and asking them to create a video showing that entire story right through to the distribution of the food itself. They get an original story and we get access to an audience of millions.

Edited by oaksoft

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3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

BuddieInEK is right about this.

There is next to no marketing strategy and that is certainly one massive reason why we have gaps in the stadium.

Anyone who runs any sort of company knows you can't survive with almost no marketing at all so why don't you understand this very basic principle?

Oh wait I think I might know the answer.......

Isn't there?

No attempts at all to increase the attendances?

You think we have massive gaps because we give OF fans seats approx 4 times a season?  :hammer

Since you know nothing about football I'll let you into a secret, the best "marketing strategy" :lol: is the team winning games.

It's been discussed many times, a football club is not the same as running a company that makes doughnuts. :rolleyes:

You're full of "basic principles" (shite) and no knowledge of football supporters..........................but you know this, right? 

PS This dramatic image of youngsters crying at home because they are thrown out of seats for an OF game really is best left to LPM. 

Edited by faraway saint

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The argument that not giving the racists two stands means losing some money is redundant really.
If... generating maximum income from the family stand is the only priority then the club could make a whole lot more by closing it, saving on the running costs and renting it out as a storage facility.
But that would take thought, effort and leadership... lol

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4 hours ago, oaksoft said:

You are of course correct about the first bit. We aim marketing at the kids and then the club engages in a collective brain fart when it comes to the bigot pound.

I would say though that the last sentence I don't agree with because it's a Sales technique without an enthused audience in place first so it's a waste of time. We could really do with people on the board who understand the difference between Sales and Marketing and who especially know how to build an audience through social media. It's a long term strategy which involves less thinking about ticket sales and more thinking about creating a story around the club which young people want to engage with. We need someone who understands how to get an audience through original content creation. I know this sounds like shite but I promise you it isn't.

For example. Youtube is full of people who have f**king millions of followers and who have enormous influence through a genius level aptitude for original content which millions want to actively engage with. If we can persuade even one of them to visit the ground and create a compelling video about us that would get us more publicity than almost anything I can think of and it would cost almost nothing. We could do a lot worse than telling one of them about Div's foodbank campaign and asking them to create a video showing that entire story right through to the distribution of the food itself. They get an original story and we get access to an audience of millions.

Not bad. Not bad at all. 

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St Mirren could improve their marketing and there is no doubt about that. However to state that there is 'no attempt whatsoever' to increase support is plainly incorrect.

For children there are free season tickets, cheap tickets (£56 ST for those up to 17) and free tickets given to youth groups. There is pre-match entertainment for children (and sometimes for adults).

Outwith those kids regularly attending games, St Mirren run many Community activities aimed at helping children which markets the Club and hopefully may see some of those kids start attending games. These initiatives include the Community Football centres located in outlying areas of Renfrew, Ralston, Lochwinnoch and Houston. There is also Street Stuff which is held every day of the week covering 17 venues across Paisley, Renfrew and Johnstone. (Last Easter holidays 1200 kids attended Street Stuff sessions). And there is the Panda Club held before all Home games.

The St Mirren Charitable Foundation markets the Club over the local area. It has an initiative for kids as Future Entrepreneurs; the Men's Shed; Football Fans in Training and Festive Friends with plans for more outreach projects. There is also the Business Club and the Memories group for people with dementia.

There is now the Women's football team that may encourage more young women to attend games.

These are the sort of initiatives that may attract long term supporters. Letting a pal in for 10p did not make any difference to ICT's gate receipts or increase in support so us letting in a friend for a fiver for a one-off game would have little impact. There are 12 of us that are season ticket holders and some guys due to work commitments cannot attend some games. They cannot get takers offering their tickets to family and friends for nothing.

The Club in my opinion is going about it the correct way - target kids and the wider community through involvement. There are a lot of people helping to market St Mirren on a daily basis.

Of course they can improve on that. For example we raised £25k for the local foodbank. The foodbank say some of that money will be used to run their van. It would be a useful marketing tool to have the van sponsored by St Mirren fans. But the Club are doing something about their marketing.

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St Mirren could improve their marketing and there is no doubt about that. However to state that there is 'no attempt whatsoever' to increase support is plainly incorrect.
For children there are free season tickets, cheap tickets (£56 ST for those up to 17) and free tickets given to youth groups. There is pre-match entertainment for children (and sometimes for adults).
Outwith those kids regularly attending games, St Mirren run many Community activities aimed at helping children which markets the Club and hopefully may see some of those kids start attending games. These initiatives include the Community Football centres located in outlying areas of Renfrew, Ralston, Lochwinnoch and Houston. There is also Street Stuff which is held every day of the week covering 17 venues across Paisley, Renfrew and Johnstone. (Last Easter holidays 1200 kids attended Street Stuff sessions). And there is the Panda Club held before all Home games.
The St Mirren Charitable Foundation markets the Club over the local area. It has an initiative for kids as Future Entrepreneurs; the Men's Shed; Football Fans in Training and Festive Friends with plans for more outreach projects. There is also the Business Club and the Memories group for people with dementia.
There is now the Women's football team that may encourage more young women to attend games.
These are the sort of initiatives that may attract long term supporters. Letting a pal in for 10p did not make any difference to ICT's gate receipts or increase in support so us letting in a friend for a fiver for a one-off game would have little impact. There are 12 of us that are season ticket holders and some guys due to work commitments cannot attend some games. They cannot get takers offering their tickets to family and friends for nothing.
The Club in my opinion is going about it the correct way - target kids and the wider community through involvement. There are a lot of people helping to market St Mirren on a daily basis.
Of course they can improve on that. For example we raised £25k for the local foodbank. The foodbank say some of that money will be used to run their van. It would be a useful marketing tool to have the van sponsored by St Mirren fans. But the Club are doing something about their marketing.
Missing the point. What are kids & families to make of a deal to get them in one week, then telling them they aren't welcome the next week?
It is sheer lazy lunacy. And is actively turning current and future fans away

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15 hours ago, shull said:

I will be in Dumbarton or East Kilbride all afternoon.

She aint decided which yet.

So fecking naw to Paisley.

East Kilbride it is, at Zone 74. 

Good to see the place very busy with folk not watching that sectarian shite from Glasgow or wasting money on any other football in Scotland. 

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7 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Isn't there?

No attempts at all to increase the attendances?

You think we have massive gaps because we give OF fans seats approx 4 times a season?  :hammer

Since you know nothing about football I'll let you into a secret, the best "marketing strategy" :lol: is the team winning games.

It's been discussed many times, a football club is not the same as running a company that makes doughnuts. :rolleyes:

You're full of "basic principles" (shite) and no knowledge of football supporters..........................but you know this, right? 

PS This dramatic image of youngsters crying at home because they are thrown out of seats for an OF game really is best left to LPM. 

I made the mistake of thinking you understood what the qualifiers "next to" and "almost" meant.

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3 hours ago, Sonny said:

St Mirren could improve their marketing and there is no doubt about that. However to state that there is 'no attempt whatsoever' to increase support is plainly incorrect.

For children there are free season tickets, cheap tickets (£56 ST for those up to 17) and free tickets given to youth groups. There is pre-match entertainment for children (and sometimes for adults).

Outwith those kids regularly attending games, St Mirren run many Community activities aimed at helping children which markets the Club and hopefully may see some of those kids start attending games. These initiatives include the Community Football centres located in outlying areas of Renfrew, Ralston, Lochwinnoch and Houston. There is also Street Stuff which is held every day of the week covering 17 venues across Paisley, Renfrew and Johnstone. (Last Easter holidays 1200 kids attended Street Stuff sessions). And there is the Panda Club held before all Home games.

The St Mirren Charitable Foundation markets the Club over the local area. It has an initiative for kids as Future Entrepreneurs; the Men's Shed; Football Fans in Training and Festive Friends with plans for more outreach projects. There is also the Business Club and the Memories group for people with dementia.

There is now the Women's football team that may encourage more young women to attend games.

These are the sort of initiatives that may attract long term supporters. Letting a pal in for 10p did not make any difference to ICT's gate receipts or increase in support so us letting in a friend for a fiver for a one-off game would have little impact. There are 12 of us that are season ticket holders and some guys due to work commitments cannot attend some games. They cannot get takers offering their tickets to family and friends for nothing.

The Club in my opinion is going about it the correct way - target kids and the wider community through involvement. There are a lot of people helping to market St Mirren on a daily basis.

Of course they can improve on that. For example we raised £25k for the local foodbank. The foodbank say some of that money will be used to run their van. It would be a useful marketing tool to have the van sponsored by St Mirren fans. But the Club are doing something about their marketing.

A lot of what you have described is Sales not Marketing.

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St Mirren could improve their marketing and there is no doubt about that. However to state that there is 'no attempt whatsoever' to increase support is plainly incorrect.
For children there are free season tickets, cheap tickets (£56 ST for those up to 17) and free tickets given to youth groups. There is pre-match entertainment for children (and sometimes for adults).
Outwith those kids regularly attending games, St Mirren run many Community activities aimed at helping children which markets the Club and hopefully may see some of those kids start attending games. These initiatives include the Community Football centres located in outlying areas of Renfrew, Ralston, Lochwinnoch and Houston. There is also Street Stuff which is held every day of the week covering 17 venues across Paisley, Renfrew and Johnstone. (Last Easter holidays 1200 kids attended Street Stuff sessions). And there is the Panda Club held before all Home games.
The St Mirren Charitable Foundation markets the Club over the local area. It has an initiative for kids as Future Entrepreneurs; the Men's Shed; Football Fans in Training and Festive Friends with plans for more outreach projects. There is also the Business Club and the Memories group for people with dementia.
There is now the Women's football team that may encourage more young women to attend games.
These are the sort of initiatives that may attract long term supporters. Letting a pal in for 10p did not make any difference to ICT's gate receipts or increase in support so us letting in a friend for a fiver for a one-off game would have little impact. There are 12 of us that are season ticket holders and some guys due to work commitments cannot attend some games. They cannot get takers offering their tickets to family and friends for nothing.
The Club in my opinion is going about it the correct way - target kids and the wider community through involvement. There are a lot of people helping to market St Mirren on a daily basis.
Of course they can improve on that. For example we raised £25k for the local foodbank. The foodbank say some of that money will be used to run their van. It would be a useful marketing tool to have the van sponsored by St Mirren fans. But the Club are doing something about their marketing.
Sonny...

You highlight a lot of good initiatives and a lot of good work that is being done.

For me, it makes it all the more upsetting that, as I have always maintained...

There was no attempt whatsoever to build our home support for the games against Rangers and Celtic before deciding to give them the family stand.

Was there? Did I miss something?

It only serves to undermine the good initiatives that you have highlighted.

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4 hours ago, sally02 said:

1300 More Saints fans turned up to watch the game against Killie yesterday,  than on Boxing Day against a team who reputedly have the best players in the country!

Says it all, really!

We would historically have expected about 6200 to 6500 at home to Celtic prior to giving them the Family Stand and  posted attendance figures for this on another thread a while back.

At the weekend we got 6800. It's the same story against Rangers.

Nobody will ever convince me that this increase of 300 to 600 per match comes anywhere close to 10% of our playing budget. You'd really need to have a zip right up the back of your head to believe that. I can accept that we make more money doing this but what really f**ks me off is being treated like a bloody idiot over a bit of school level arithmetic.

Edited by oaksoft

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17 hours ago, cockles1987 said:

He forgot to delete the space between the 'and posted.'

Couldn't believe how MAD he'd have been to have MADE such a stupid spelling mistake.

PS their is plenty I make all the time, but not when I'm calling out others intelligence. emoji6.png

Whit? 

Edited by oaksoft

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