Sectarianism and Bigotry in Football

[St.Ricky]

My Own view is that there is no place for either in football or in society. I welcome the stance taken by Huddersfield over abuse hurled at James McLean. I hope this approach is mirrored in Scotland whoever might be playing. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50979014

[DougJamie]

I know Shull harps on about it, but he has a point ( for once)

Huddersfield are just a small club, whereas we have two giants that practise it

I see Sevco Scum could not even respect the minutes applause at the beginning of the game

We will never see it actioned here, as them at the top are part of the problem …………..

Trying to do Celtic for Racist chants when both sets have been singing their hearts out with sectarianism and bigotry...…….. 

UEFA keep pointing out that both teams are guilty, yet they do feck all

I do my own wee bit, in that I wont go to a OF game, but we don't help either...…...

Ricky- Its all about Money and nothing else 

 

[St.Ricky]

Difficult to disagree DJ. Certainly can't be anything to do with either religion or common sense. I hope.. Maybe in vain.. That the Scottish Football Authorities will be shames into taking action. Not sure I can hold my breath for the length if time it might take. 

[Ayrshire Saints]

2 hours ago, DougJamie said:

I know Shull harps on about it, but he has a point ( for once)

Huddersfield are just a small club, whereas we have two giants that practise it

I see Sevco Scum could not even respect the minutes applause at the beginning of the game

We will never see it actioned here, as them at the top are part of the problem …………..

Trying to do Celtic for Racist chants when both sets have been singing their hearts out with sectarianism and bigotry...…….. 

UEFA keep pointing out that both teams are guilty, yet they do feck all

I do my own wee bit, in that I wont go to a OF game, but we don't help either...…...

Ricky- Its all about Money and nothing else 

 

It never ceases to amaze me how UEFA's match day observers constantly hear and report both cheeks fans for singing sectarian songs yet the powers that be in this country seem oblivious. Even more amazing when the UEFA observers will nearly always not have English as their first language. Even more amazing is how it's reported, the media here see it as some sort of witch hunt against them !  

[DougJamie]

11 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

It never ceases to amaze me how UEFA's match day observers constantly hear and report both cheeks fans for singing sectarian songs yet the powers that be in this country seem oblivious. Even more amazing when the UEFA observers will nearly always not have English as their first language. Even more amazing is how it's reported, the media here see it as some sort of witch hunt against them !  

There really is no surprise, UEFA have teeth the SFA/SPFL have Neil Doncaster and the likes...…………. The Bigotry actually sells the OF for what they are , 2 manky tribes that hate everything that isn't them 

After the shame of the 1980 Cup Final they had their chance to stamp all over the OF...……….. but of course as most of them are either Masons or Knight of St Columba they just ignored it.

 

 

[faraway saint]

Brilliant, ANOTHER thread to discuss the OF. 🤣

[pod]

Farting against thunder.

[St.Ricky]

57 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

There really is no surprise, UEFA have teeth the SFA/SPFL have Neil Doncaster and the likes...…………. The Bigotry actually sells the OF for what they are , 2 manky tribes that hate everything that isn't them 

After the shame of the 1980 Cup Final they had their chance to stamp all over the OF...……….. but of course as most of them are either Masons or Knight of St Columba they just ignored it.

 

 

There is no excuse. Politicians tried but fans railed against the law. Now that it has been highlighted in England then maybe the authorities will take notice. 

[antrin]

21 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

There is no excuse. Politicians tried but fans railed against the law. Now that it has been highlighted in England then maybe the authorities will take notice. 

The laws of the land were already strong enough too deal with the bigotry.  The new law did nothing to clarify anything that's why it was a poor law.

The Scottish Football Authorities COULD do something about it.

I certainly HOPE that the Scottish Government lets the SFA/SPFL know that if they don't then the government WILL.

[St.Ricky]

12 minutes ago, antrin said:

The laws of the land were already strong enough too deal with the bigotry.  The new law did nothing to clarify anything that's why it was a poor law.

The Scottish Football Authorities COULD do something about it.

I certainly HOPE that the Scottish Government lets the SFA/SPFL know that if they don't then the government WILL.

Indeed! 

[windae cleaner]

The sad thing it's getting worse

It was slowly making progress but since 2012 it's back on the rise

It ain't going away

[oaksoft]

4 hours ago, windae cleaner said:

The sad thing it's getting worse

It was slowly making progress but since 2012 it's back on the rise

It ain't going away

For some reason, people across the world seem a lot angrier now than they have ever been. I genuinely have no idea why that should be. 

Online abuse is much worse than it has ever been, racism is rearing its head again and sectarianism too, bottles and coins thrown at matches.

 

[St.Ricky]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

For some reason, people across the world seem a lot angrier now than they have ever been. I genuinely have no idea why that should be. 

Online abuse is much worse than it has ever been, racism is rearing its head again and sectarianism too, bottles and coins thrown at matches.

 

I have to agree with you. Back around 2000 I spent some time at a Business School. I taught and mentored MBA students. Alongside that I researched a few related things. The first was the potential impact, as I saw it, of an upcoming clash between globalisation and localisation. These, I believed, would bring increasing tension and alter the second area I was interested in which was leadership. The third area of interest that tied in was Stakeholder Management in its widest sense. 

Race and religion are easy targets for populist politicians to stoke up for their own purposes and Social Media is ideal for populist to make use of to do so. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by St.Ricky

[faraway saint]

[St.Ricky]

Most on here will see parallels in increases calls for more power locally eg. Independence, brexit etc

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, St.Ricky said:

I have to agree with you. Back around 2000 I spent some time at a Business School. I taught and mentored MBA students. Alongside that I researched a few related things. The first was the potential impact, as I saw it, of an upcoming clash between globalisation and localisation. These, I believed, would bring increasing tension and alter the second area I was interested in which was leadership. The third area of interest that tied in was Stakeholder Management in its widest sense. 

Race and religion are easy targets for populist politicians to stoke up for their own purposes and Social Media is ideal for populist to make use of to do so. 

Clashes between globalisation and localisation happened considerably earlier than the 2000's.

Historically there are documented clashes within the British textile industry panicking about cheap Indian imports dating back to the days of Henry VIII.

I have to say though that I am once again impressed that you managed to make a long and successful career peddling bullshit like this, especially when you manage to present the impact in terms of both Leadership and Stakeholder Management. Honestly, I don't know how you managed to avoid getting hunted from reception within 30 seconds. I could never have pulled off stuff like that. 🤣

Edited January 4, 2020 by oaksoft

[St.Ricky]

8 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Clashes between globalisation and localisation happened considerably earlier than the 2000's.

Historically there are documented clashes within the British textile industry panicking about cheap Indian imports dating back to the days of Henry VIII.

I have to say though that I am once again impressed that you managed to make a long and successful career peddling bullshit like this, especially when you manage to present the impact in terms of both Leadership and Stakeholder Management. Honestly, I don't know how you managed to avoid getting hunted from reception within 30 seconds. I could never have pulled off stuff like that. 🤣

Why thank you kind sir. I was of course referring to political change. But.. I think you knew that.  However, Correction. I spent 1998 and 1999 there before deciding to move on. The University though asked me to set up a Centre for Future thinking. I agreed on condition that I never had to run it. Instead I enjoyed working with big Pharma, Manufacturing, Banks, Mobile Telephony, Service Sector and Governments. The good old days! 

Edited January 4, 2020 by St.Ricky

[oaksoft]

6 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

Why thank you kind sir. I was of course referring to political change. But.. I think you knew that.  However, Correction. I spent 1998 and 1999 there before deciding to move on. The University though asked me to set up a Centre for Future thinking. I agreed on condition that I never had to run it. Instead I enjoyed working with big Pharma, Manufacturing, Banks, Mobile Telephony, Service Sector and Governments. The good old days! 

I do actually have a serious question for you.

Business is essentially a very simple thing. You sell a product or service for less than it costs to make or supply. There are very few things in life much simpler than that.

My question then is where the proliferation of needless jargon comes from within corporate business. It must be a deliberate attempt to pretend that a person doing a very easy job is somehow irreplaceable right? I honestly can't think of any other reason. My businesses have been family run so I didn't work in the corporate side of things (although I used to be an employee in that environment).

You're out of this all this now presumably so what on earth is all this nonsense about?

[St.Ricky]

20 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I do actually have a serious question for you.

Business is essentially a very simple thing. You sell a product or service for less than it costs to make or supply. There are very few things in life much simpler than that.

My question then is where the proliferation of needless jargon comes from within corporate business. It must be a deliberate attempt to pretend that a person doing a very easy job is somehow irreplaceable right? I honestly can't think of any other reason. My businesses have been family run so I didn't work in the corporate side of things (although I used to be an employee in that environment).

You're out of this all this now presumably so what on earth is all this nonsense about?

I have never used jargon. A waste of time. Using the language of any client makes sense though. I get the sense that you founded the business and from what you have written before, it is largely staffed by family members. Good on you. The challenges for high growth and or large organisations are much more complex but essentially I agree with you. They often complicate things unnecessarily and create barriers in language, behaviours and culture between levels. Divisions, departments and teams. I had fun interpreting these and returning to the roots by using language each group could understand even if they might not like it. It was fun. Never could work anywhere where I didn't enjoy it. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by St.Ricky

[oaksoft]

20 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

I have never used jargon. A waste of time. Using the language of any client makes sense though. 

You talked about the impact of the clash between globalisation and localisation on "Leadership" and "Stakeholder Management".

I think you are as guilty as anyone of indulging in a bit of corporate bullshitspeak. 

If you're in denial though fair enough. So why do clients speak like that then?

Edited January 4, 2020 by oaksoft

[St.Ricky]

5 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You talked about the impact of the clash between globalisation and localisation on "Leadership" and "Stakeholder Management".

I think you are as guilty as anyone of indulging in a bit of corporate bullshitspeak. 

If you're in denial though fair enough. So why do clients speak like that then?

See above. However those words are in pretty commonplace use anywhere above a 50 person business.

Gobaiisation was accelerated by Maggie Thatcher and Rehan. They essentially opened up the transfer of capital with few restrictions. This exacerbated local grievances over control and saw large corporations expand exponentially. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by St.Ricky

[oaksoft]

4 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

See above. However those words are in pretty commonplace use anywhere above a 50 person business.

Gobaiisation was accelerated by Maggie Thatcher and Rehan. They essentially opened up the transfer of capital with few restrictions. This exacerbated local grievances over control and saw large corporations expand exponentially. 

Yes I know. I was wondering if you had some insight as to why, given your many years in the trade.

I also know about Thatcher and Reagan's involvement. I spent a decade bemused as management tried to persuade staff of the benefits of globalisation when it was crystal clear that relocation of operations to India and China and the permanent loss of millions of jobs and massive cost cutting was the prime goal rather than the opportunity of increased trade. It was fascinating to watch in some ways.

[St.Ricky]

29 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Yes I know. I was wondering if you had some insight as to why, given your many years in the trade.

I also know about Thatcher and Reagan's involvement. I spent a decade bemused as management tried to persuade staff of the benefits of globalisation when it was crystal clear that relocation of operations to India and China and the permanent loss of millions of jobs and massive cost cutting was the prime goal rather than the opportunity of increased trade. It was fascinating to watch in some ways.

You have the answer in what you posted. The relationship between the traditional capital, land and people equation was "rebalanced" by the actions of Thatcher and Regan. The problem since then has been how to rebalanced these. The rest is consequential. 

[smcc]

20 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I do actually have a serious question for you.

Business is essentially a very simple thing. You sell a product or service for less than it costs to make or supply. There are very few things in life much simpler than that.

My question then is where the proliferation of needless jargon comes from within corporate business. It must be a deliberate attempt to pretend that a person doing a very easy job is somehow irreplaceable right? I honestly can't think of any other reason. My businesses have been family run so I didn't work in the corporate side of things (although I used to be an employee in that environment).

You're out of this all this now presumably so what on earth is all this nonsense about?

I, too, have a serious question for you. Can you explain to me how any business can survive by selling at less than cost? I have always assumed that to make a profit you must mark up your goods.

[faraway saint]

6 minutes ago, smcc said:

I, too, have a serious question for you. Can you explain to me how any business can survive by selling at less than cost? I have always assumed that to make a profit you must mark up your goods.

Well spotted.