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Minimum price alcohol... The myth


stlucifer

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2 hours ago, stlucifer said:

I've removed the pointl;ess waffling and left the pertinent part of your post.

As to that, where is your evidence? 

For instance.

Norway has taken extreme measures, excessive price hikes, banning sales after certain times, age restrictions and more but, due in the main to historical culture, the biggest "culprits" of drink excess tend to be young, unemployed people. Where does that fit into your theory of taking drink out of the reach of those with less money?  And make no mistake. That is all you're advocating.

There sre no easy answers but I certainly don't believe overpricing is one of them.

My response was to Antrin.
 

The people you describe are indeed very vulnerable but alcohol abuse is across society.

The cost is historically low compared to incomes.

It’s a multi faceted problem and on that we agree. Education has a big part to play and on that we agree.

We will need to agree to disagree on the impact and desirability of the pricing policy as part of overall improvement.

Changes for the better have and continue to take place and a new culture has and continues to evolve as we move from spit and sawdust and miners social clubs to a Mediterranean culture where mixing chat, food and drinks is more convivial and inclusive.

For some reason you seem to have decided that I have no knowledge or sympathy with the poorest sections of our society. Joblessness and serial joblessness in families and communities is a terrible thing and very difficult to overcome. If it was easy then we would have done it by now. Can I understand a desire to block out the helplessness or anger that someone might experience in that situation? Of course I can but the solution isn’t at the bottom of a glass or tin .

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My response was to Antrin.
 
The people you describe are indeed very vulnerable but alcohol abuse is across society.
The cost is historically low compared to incomes.
It’s a multi faceted problem and on that we agree. Education has a big part to play and on that we agree.
We will need to agree to disagree on the impact and desirability of the pricing policy as part of overall improvement.
Changes for the better have and continue to take place and a new culture has and continues to evolve as we move from spit and sawdust and miners social clubs to a Mediterranean culture where mixing chat, food and drinks is more convivial and inclusive.
For some reason you seem to have decided that I have no knowledge or sympathy with the poorest sections of our society. Joblessness and serial joblessness in families and communities is a terrible thing and very difficult to overcome. If it was easy then we would have done it by now. Can I understand a desire to block out the helplessness or anger that someone might experience in that situation? Of course I can but the solution isn’t at the bottom of a glass or tin .
Yep, alcohol doesn't solve any problems ... but, then again, neither does milk.
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11 minutes ago, Slarti said:
8 hours ago, Rascal said:
My response was to Antrin.
 
The people you describe are indeed very vulnerable but alcohol abuse is across society.
The cost is historically low compared to incomes.
It’s a multi faceted problem and on that we agree. Education has a big part to play and on that we agree.
We will need to agree to disagree on the impact and desirability of the pricing policy as part of overall improvement.
Changes for the better have and continue to take place and a new culture has and continues to evolve as we move from spit and sawdust and miners social clubs to a Mediterranean culture where mixing chat, food and drinks is more convivial and inclusive.
For some reason you seem to have decided that I have no knowledge or sympathy with the poorest sections of our society. Joblessness and serial joblessness in families and communities is a terrible thing and very difficult to overcome. If it was easy then we would have done it by now. Can I understand a desire to block out the helplessness or anger that someone might experience in that situation? Of course I can but the solution isn’t at the bottom of a glass or tin .

Yep, alcohol doesn't solve any problems ... but, then again, neither does milk.

Or yogurt 

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21 minutes ago, Slarti said:
8 hours ago, Rascal said:
My response was to Antrin.
 
The people you describe are indeed very vulnerable but alcohol abuse is across society.
The cost is historically low compared to incomes.
It’s a multi faceted problem and on that we agree. Education has a big part to play and on that we agree.
We will need to agree to disagree on the impact and desirability of the pricing policy as part of overall improvement.
Changes for the better have and continue to take place and a new culture has and continues to evolve as we move from spit and sawdust and miners social clubs to a Mediterranean culture where mixing chat, food and drinks is more convivial and inclusive.
For some reason you seem to have decided that I have no knowledge or sympathy with the poorest sections of our society. Joblessness and serial joblessness in families and communities is a terrible thing and very difficult to overcome. If it was easy then we would have done it by now. Can I understand a desire to block out the helplessness or anger that someone might experience in that situation? Of course I can but the solution isn’t at the bottom of a glass or tin .

Yep, alcohol doesn't solve any problems ... but, then again, neither does milk.

Don't talk pish, I've had no milk today, had lots of alcohol and solved lots of problems.  🤪

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50 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Don't talk pish, I've had no milk today, had lots of alcohol and solved lots of problems.  🤪

Oh dear…it shows..not the problem solving … just a little. Why not combine milk and alcohol. Don’t know if you have ever tried it? https://cocktailpartyapp.com/drinks/rum-cow/

Edited by Rascal
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On 1/28/2020 at 7:06 PM, stlucifer said:

Just a thought.

So the over pricing of alcohol has reduced the Sales of drink in Scotland?

Let's look at the facts.

There are other ways of getting your fill of the demon.

I know of a few who have invested in home brew and small stills. The latter can actually create drink with  far more alcoholic content, as much as 60% on average which has to be watered down to reduce it to the normal 40%.

The other thing is the comparative rise of sales in England. Is this a coincidence? Have the English really increased their intake by as much  as we have reduced?

I think not.

It's more likely that the increase is, at least in part, due to people finding it worthwhile buying in bulk and transporting it north, in some cases for profit.

While this might seem fanciful why isn't it less fanciful to assume the English are sitting at Hadrian's wall sipping our whisky at 75% of the price consuming more just to say, "Get it right up ya Jock"!?

I am, of course, exaggerating, (and a little tongue in cheek), the extent that some might go to get their hands on drink but I am simply emphasising that the Scottish government using end of line sales in such a triumphant manner is wrong. It will take years for any proof of benefits or change of habits to be seen.

the overbearing, dominating, non beneficial increase might have been more palatable if the Scottish government had had the balls to make it a revenue generating tax which could have went towards helping those already down the rabbit hole.

I do know that the pricing regime has NOT changed my habits. It won't have changed that of any who have a reasonable income. I just hate this form of state intervention. 

https://ahauk.org/news/english-drinkers-can-consume-a-weeks-worth-of-alcohol-for-the-same-price-as-a-high-street-cup-of-coffee-campaigners-warn/

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1 minute ago, Rascal said:

SO? It's quite important to highlight the word CAN. It's a choice. Perhaps they should stick to DO. In fact. You should perhaps look further afield and you'll find that England isn't the cheapest in Europe even. It actually proves my point that cheaper drink doesn't mean more alcohol abuse. thanks for that.

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23 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

SO? It's quite important to highlight the word CAN. It's a choice. Perhaps they should stick to DO. In fact. You should perhaps look further afield and you'll find that England isn't the cheapest in Europe even. It actually proves my point that cheaper drink doesn't mean more alcohol abuse. thanks for that.

The UK is comparatively expense. But…in historic terms drink is very affordable and easily obtained. Culture is important….remember that piffle I wrote earlier?

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16 minutes ago, Rascal said:

The UK is comparatively expense. But…in historic terms drink is very affordable and easily obtained. Culture is important….remember that piffle I wrote earlier?

The cost of alcohol in the UK is more expensive that many other European countries and more expensive in Scotland due to the minimum pricing policy.

People who have dependency on anything will sacrifice the necessities to get their hit. Minimum pricing on alcohol has done nothing other than line the pockets of Asda, Tesco, Morrisons etc. Another flawed policy

There is no coincidence that Scotlands drug deaths increased after the introduction of the minimum pricing on alcohol.

the only solution to this problem is Education Education and Education. 

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23 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

The cost of alcohol in the UK is more expensive that many other European countries and more expensive in Scotland due to the minimum pricing policy.

People who have dependency on anything will sacrifice the necessities to get their hit. Minimum pricing on alcohol has done nothing other than line the pockets of Asda, Tesco, Morrisons etc. Another flawed policy

There is no coincidence that Scotlands drug deaths increased after the introduction of the minimum pricing on alcohol.

the only solution to this problem is Education Education and Education. 

Agree, agree, agree

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33 minutes ago, Slarti said:
55 minutes ago, faraway saint said:
How do you know its not true.
 

I never said, or implied, it wasn't true, I simply asked a question. I didn't even say that that I doubted it. He made an assertion, the burden of proof is on him.

Who is he?

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B46B1099-81CE-42F8-86D2-E4E4B824B2D6.thumb.jpeg.be75fc069abada1fe5530caee13a9d8f.jpeg

The stats do show a worrying trend but its hard to see a direct correlation with minimum pricing from 2018.

I think the latest asesments of MUP are disappointing but I thought at the time it was a good idea and I don’t think it was wrong to try.

Stats are always difficult for example the latest figures for alcohol related liver failure was down in 2019 but it’s hard to say whither this had anything to do with MUP or just the fact that as a nation we are drinking less.

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There is no coincidence that Scotlands drug deaths increased after the introduction of the minimum pricing on alcohol.


It was the "no coincidence" bit I was questioning, not whether the number of deaths had risen.

But now you say...

It may be a conincidence.


Make up your mind. [emoji1787]
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