Minimum price alcohol... The myth

[Rascal]

23 hours ago, Buddymarvellous said:

The stats do show a worrying trend but its hard to see a direct correlation with minimum pricing from 2018.

I think the latest asesments of MUP are disappointing but I thought at the time it was a good idea and I don’t think it was wrong to try.

Stats are always difficult for example the latest figures for alcohol related liver failure was down in 2019 but it’s hard to say whither this had anything to do with MUP or just the fact that as a nation we are drinking less.

Correct on interpreting the stats in isolation. I look at two other areas of public health and see the impact of long term policies and sustained action, the most noticeable of which is Smoking and the other relates to attitudes towards alcohol and driving. I think it would be difficult to argue against their effectiveness yet no single element in the programmes for either made “the” difference. I expect and hope that for both Alcohol and Diet that , over time, will see changes and already think that these are visible if not yet statistically measurable.

[stlucifer]

32 minutes ago, Rascal said:

Correct on interpreting the stats in isolation. I look at two other areas of public health and see the impact of long term policies and sustained action, the most noticeable of which is Smoking and the other relates to attitudes towards alcohol and driving. I think it would be difficult to argue against their effectiveness yet no single element in the programmes for either made “the” difference. I expect and hope that for both Alcohol and Diet that , over time, will see changes and already think that these are visible if not yet statistically measurable.

What you think is, quite frankly, irrelavent. The price hike on drink has been in place long enough to get statistics. And those show no significant reduction in drink for those this policy was put in place to convert. No amount of flaff from you changes that FACT.

[Rascal]

Yawn.

[stlucifer]

Just now, Rascal said:

Yawn.

One of your more intelligent posts but that is a low bar.

[Rascal]

1 minute ago, stlucifer said:

One of your more intelligent posts but that is a low bar.

Opinions are opinions. Interpretation of statistics is always a fun game. Seeing things in isolation rather than in a long term strategic approach heavily colours interpretation. I don’t mind. Your opinion is your opinion, your breadth of vision (or not) is your breadth of vision. No complaint from me.

[Slarti]

I made up my mind about you a long time ago[emoji848]
 
You as usual were just being YOU !!. 

You stated that there was "no coincidence" as if there was evidence to support it. All I was doing was asking you supply the evidence. As you haven't, and also now state that it might be a coincidence, I'll assume that there is no evidence and your initial assertion was false.

[Rascal]

Maybe worth a read. https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/alcohol/alcohol-in-popular-culture/

[Brilliant Disguise]

17 hours ago, Slarti said:

21 hours ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

I made up my mind about you a long time ago
 
You as usual were just being YOU !!. 

You stated that there was "no coincidence" as if there was evidence to support it. All I was doing was asking you supply the evidence. As you haven't, and also now state that it might be a coincidence, I'll assume that there is no evidence and your initial assertion was false.

I assume that your usual attention to play on words that you have no evidence to the contrary.

There is a trend that increase in alcohol prices had no impact on the use of alcohol. There is evidence that in the period that drug deaths significantly increased after MPA was introduced. I offered an opinion on the connection to the two. This forum like all other forms of social media is about providing opinions, unfortunately on all forms of social media there a trolls like you who offer nothing to the debate other than pick up on the use on words and spullin misteaks and granma.

Have you not got another bus run to do.

[Brilliant Disguise]

28 minutes ago, Rascal said:

Maybe worth a read. https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/alcohol/alcohol-in-popular-culture/

Interesting read however the issue (IMO - For Slarti benefit) is that in the UK the introduction to alcohol is usual on the back of getting hammered at the weekend. Other countries introduce alcohol in a more social environment where getting hammered is not on the agenda. Education Education Education

[Rascal]

3 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

Interesting read however the issue (IMO - For Slarti benefit) is that in the UK the introduction to alcohol is usual on the back of getting hammered at the weekend. Other countries introduce alcohol in a more social environment where getting hammered is not on the agenda. Education Education Education

Brilliant Disguise. Agree on both. The rest helps set the scene or reinforces behaviours. I have nothing against anyone enjoying a drink but not to get drunk as the desired end result. That’s just sad.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Brilliant Disguise said:

Other countries introduce alcohol in a more social environment where getting hammered is not on the agenda. Education Education Education

Do they?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcoholism-by-country

[Slarti]

I assume that your usual attention to play on words that you have no evidence to the contrary.
There is a trend that increase in alcohol prices had no impact on the use of alcohol. There is evidence that in the period that drug deaths significantly increased after MPA was introduced. I offered an opinion on the connection to the two. This forum like all other forms of social media is about providing opinions, unfortunately on all forms of social media there a trolls like you who offer nothing to the debate other than pick up on the use on words and spullin misteaks and granma.
Have you not got another bus run to do.

It's not a play on words, you stated something as fact, not opinion. It's not that you don't know the difference, you used "IMO" in the post below. If it had been a genuine mistake, you could simply have said so when I asked how you knew but you tried to turn it on me in an apparent defence mechanism.

I don't need evidence to the contrary, as I never made any claim regarding it so there's nothing for me to back up or defend. I simply asked you how you knew what you claimed. Never mind, you've now admitted that it was just your opinion and that it might be a coincidence. See how easy that was for you to do.

Correlation is not the same thing as causation. Since she caught covid, my niece has got taller, do you think covid caused that?

Wow, I'm a troll for asking a question now? That just looks like another puny attempt at deflection and really does you no favours.

Why would I be doing a bus run? [emoji1787]

Interesting read however the issue (IMO - For Slarti benefit) is that in the UK the introduction to alcohol is usual on the back of getting hammered at the weekend. Other countries introduce alcohol in a more social environment where getting hammered is not on the agenda. Education Education Education

It's fine, I don't need you to explain anything for my benefit. Or, to be more precise, if I do, I'll ask.

[Slarti]

Do they?
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcoholism-by-country

To be fair, he never said ALL other countries.

[Rascal]

16 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Do they?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcoholism-by-country

Very interesting data. Thanks. As ever, a complex issue. Culture, Religion and Access all contribute. I share the view however that encouraging an approach that treats alcohol as an optional accompaniment to food or a social gathering rather the main ingredient is better practiced in some other e.g. Mediterranean cultures. We are moving towards that and are rightly less tolerant of drunken behaviour whilst also concerned that those involved have a driving need to alter their perception or enjoyment through alcohol or other drugs.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Slarti said:

32 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

Do they?
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcoholism-by-country

To be fair, he never said ALL other countries.

Agreed. But how come we are not top of the alcopops?

Are Scotland the biggest consumers of Buckfast per head of population?

Edited June 12, 2022 by SuperSaints1877

[Rascal]

On 1/29/2020 at 12:15 PM, oaksoft said:

The government also have to pick up the tab for the resulting problems which hit the NHS.

Between smoking, alcohol, drugs and obesity, Scots certainly know how to strain our public services, complain about how those services are strained and then complain when the government tries to do something about it. We are a nation of whiners.

It's hardly close to prohibition.  Come on. Surely you can see that is a ridiculous thing to say.

They don't collect it as a tax presumably because it wouldn't pay for itself in terms of administration and compliance. Same as the bag tax.

BTW, genuinely poor people should have a lot more to worry about than buying alcohol.

Somewhat rare, but no less valid for that, words of wisdom from Oaksoft.

[Slarti]

Agreed. But how come we are not top of the alcopops?
Are Scotland the biggest consumers of Buckfast per head of population?

Don't know and don't know.

To be honest, don't really care. [emoji16]

[faraway saint]

11 minutes ago, Slarti said:

Don't know and don't know.

To be honest, don't really care.

Have another drink, things will be clearer. 

[Slarti]

Have another drink, things will be clearer. 

Give me a chance, I only stopped about 5 this morning. [emoji1787]

I know, I'm a lightweight.

[Brilliant Disguise]

1 hour ago, Slarti said:

Correlation is not the same thing as causation. Since she caught covid, my niece has got taller, do you think covid caused that?
 

 

 

Maybe she was sitting on your high horse when she was measured

[faraway saint]

4 minutes ago, Slarti said:

Give me a chance, I only stopped about 5 this morning.

I know, I'm a lightweight.

Schoolboy error, stopping. 

[Slarti]

Maybe she was sitting on your high horse when she was measured

I cooked and ate that long ago.

[stlucifer]

New figures show the death rate of alcohol related cases is rising. It has been for most of the time since the introduction of MUP. This policy will NEVER stop those who really think they need their fix. All that will be happening is those who want to drink to excess will forego other things to do so which may well account for the increase in deaths. Even worse is those who depend on what little these people have may well suffer too. Education is a long process but it is the only way to reduce misuse.

I think the likely cause of the latest increase in deaths is partly the aftermath of covid restrictions which gave more people more free time in solitude causing them to drink heavier and the fact that those on low incomes forfeited nourishment in favour of inebriation.

The "do-gooders yet again want the majority to suffer financially in an attempt to pretend they're doing things to tackle something which, for most of us, is NOT a problem. We are going through one of the worst financial crises in many peoples lives and they want to further impoverish the normal working person. A one stop fix is impossible in this, as in many a situation. 

At the same time, those with deeper pockets will not even notice the difference in price, even if they have a problem,. More punishing the less well off unfairly. It's beyond ridiculous. 

[faraway saint]

Some FACTS...............make of it what you will.

Small increase in alcohol-specific death statistics

Tuesday, 29 Aug 2023

The number of deaths from alcohol-specific causes rose in Scotland in 2022 by 2%, according to figures published today by National Records of Scotland.

In total 1,276 deaths were attributed to alcohol-specific causes last year, 31 more than in 2021; the highest number since 2008. 
Male deaths continue to account for around two thirds of alcohol-specific deaths. Female deaths increased by 31 to 440, with the number of alcohol-specific male deaths unchanged at 836. 

Taking into account the changing size and age-structure of the population, the rate of death had changed from 22.3 per 100,000 to 22.9 per 100,000 over the last year. This is not considered statistically significant. 

Daniel Burns, Head of Vital Events Statistics, said:

“Looking at the long term trend the number of deaths from alcohol-specific causes fell between 2006 and 2012 but has risen since and is now about the same as 2010 levels.

“In 2022, the average age at death for females from an alcohol-specific cause was 58.7 years and for males it was 60.0 years.”

There are 4.3 times as many deaths from these causes in the most deprived communities as in the least deprived communities but this equality gap has been narrowing. This compares to a ratio of 1.8 times for all causes of death.

[stlucifer]

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