Guest TPAFKATS Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 Trying to sort out in my mind... Pros Can get control by Dec 2021 - Kibble will provide support services ( Need clarification) Would be able potentially to reduce SMISA subscriptions early Cons Already projected to be able to buy by 2023 (Kombi’s point) so why not wait another 2 years and buy outright We (SMISA and other supporter shareholders) would no longer be sole owners of StMirren Proposal may piss off enough members that Dec 2021 target is not met Would lose option to sell spare shares later (Waldorf’s point) Questions Why is SMISA paying all legal fees to achieve this ? What happens to current Income from Kibble as a customer ? What are specific benefits to Kibble ? What does ‘Kibble will ....invest in new facilities’ mean and who would own these. I.e. is this new money coming from Kibble ? If present income is maintained what is revised date for original purchase plan ? (estimated 2023 - see above) For me it comes down to : Do we want jam now (2021) from the pros above or Do we wait another two years and buy outright ....and I cannae make my mind up..This highlights the importance of getting clear, concise answers at next weeks meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truesaint Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, faraway saint said: If you wish me to expand, I will..............................your post was a load of twaddle. I hope this is enough, you're not worth any more of my time. More than enough. Please don't expand on anything. No point you filling another thread with emoji's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 minute ago, truesaint said: More than enough. Please don't expand on anything. No point you filling another thread with emoji's. ^^^^^^ Simpleton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 The club isn't being sold though is it? I think everyone, except you it seems, at least understands that very basic point. The proposal is that 27% of Gordon's shares are sold Kibble. SMiSA currently have a legal agreement to buy those shares. SMiSA members are being asked to vote on whether they want that sale to proceed. SMiSA will continue on their path towards fan ownership, at the end of 2021, when they will own the majority shareholding of 51% This is really pretty simple to understand. Try and think hard before you post and see if you can come up with a better lie. Aye, tell me when did smisa members ask for this?Your lie... trying to convince people selling over a quarter of the club to an outside organisation isnt in fact selling over a quarter of the club to an outside organisation.Smisa members did not ask for this hotch potch betrayal of what they were promised.But hey, if you're happy to just let solemn promises slide then you live with whatever that brings you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, Yflab said: Are you a member of SMiSA? Does it matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 Why are Kibble buying up shares? That's what I don't get. Why not just rent out the facilities from St Mirren? What commercial advantage does buying the shares give Kibble? As I said on the other thread I'm all for St Mirren partnering with community groups, charities and service providers. It's what I always argued for so I'm not against the idea of St Mirren working with Kibble to make things happen - what I don't get though is why a charity feels the need to buy up shares off Gordon Scott to make it happen. This.Absolutely this.Partnership and trading agreements are possible without share purchase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) LPM. SMISA members are being asked whether or not they approve of this! No deal has been done; it is still only a proposal. if you are a SMISA member you will get your say. Edited January 31, 2020 by smcc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 LPM. SMISA members are being asked whether or not they approve of this! No deal has been done; it is still only a proposal. if you are a SMISA member you will get your say.Why are the smisa committee even entertaining it?Who asked them to facilitate selling over a quarter of the club to an outside organisation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldorf34 Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 59 minutes ago, Dickson said: Why are Kibble buying up shares? That's what I don't get. Why not just rent out the facilities from St Mirren? What commercial advantage does buying the shares give Kibble? As I said on the other thread I'm all for St Mirren partnering with community groups, charities and service providers. It's what I always argued for so I'm not against the idea of St Mirren working with Kibble to make things happen - what I don't get though is why a charity feels the need to buy up shares off Gordon Scott to make it happen. Exactly my point plus we keep the extra shares for a rainy day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smcc Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 25 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: Why are the smisa committee even entertaining it? Who asked them to facilitate selling over a quarter of the club to an outside organisation? It does not matter why , or whether they were asked. It will only come to pass if a majority of SMISA members OKs it. If you are a member you will have a vote, if you are not It shouldn't concern you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portmahomack saint Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Buddymarvellous said: Trying to sort out in my mind... Pros Can get control by Dec 2021 - Kibble will provide support services ( Need clarification) Would be able potentially to reduce SMISA subscriptions early Cons Already projected to be able to buy by 2023 (Kombi’s point) so why not wait another 2 years and buy outright We (SMISA and other supporter shareholders) would no longer be sole owners of StMirren Proposal may piss off enough members that Dec 2021 target is not met Would lose option to sell spare shares later (Waldorf’s point) Questions Why is SMISA paying all legal fees to achieve this ? What happens to current Income from Kibble as a customer ? What are specific benefits to Kibble ? What does ‘Kibble will ....invest in new facilities’ mean and who would own these. I.e. is this new money coming from Kibble ? If present income is maintained what is revised date for original purchase plan ? (estimated 2023 - see above) For me it comes down to : Do we want jam now (2021) from the pros above or Do we wait another two years and buy outright ....and I cannae make my mind up.. Based On this alone WE STICK. Very Little is ever gained long term by selling off the family silver.... Harold Macmillan 1985 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddymarvellous Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 42 minutes ago, cockles1987 said: Not sure if the buy out option has to be completed when we SMISA have the funds or we wait and have a rainy day fund. You seem to contradict yourself regarding we shouldn't be giving up on the shares that the kibble will be purchasing but be able to sell to a.n.other so still not having the 71 % ownership. You do raise a lot of good points that need answered for I believe the majority including myself to finally decide how we will progress. Thanks Cockles I don’t think we would have a rainy day fund at the point we buy up to the 51% anyway I wasn’t proposing that we would ever sell the shares - just making the point that we would always have that buffer/rainy day fund option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldorf34 Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 38 minutes ago, cockles1987 said: 5 hours ago, waldorf34 said: Smisa already had shares before the agreement I knew that, just don't recollect them having or being able to reach 80% from the shareholding available. Can you show how you came up with that figure. After paying off the old board directors last summer Smisa own 29%GS owns 50.2%,so total 79.2% By GS selling 27.5% Smisa get 22.8% adding that to the 29% gives them 51.8% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted January 31, 2020 Report Share Posted January 31, 2020 LPM. SMISA members are being asked whether or not they approve of this! No deal has been done; it is still only a proposal. if you are a SMISA member you will get your say.Maybe so... But my Motherwell supporting pal was asking me all about it believing it to be agreed going by press reports.The press coverage and photos are hardly impartial... They are leading and manipulative, aimed at selling the deal before SMISA members have even had the chance to discuss it.Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kombibuddie Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. It stinks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kombibuddie Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) Edited February 1, 2020 by Kombibuddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kombibuddie Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, Buddymarvellous said: Trying to sort out in my mind... Pros Can get control by Dec 2021 - Kibble will provide support services ( Need clarification) Would be able potentially to reduce SMISA subscriptions early Cons Already projected to be able to buy by 2023 (Kombi’s point) so why not wait another 2 years and buy outright We (SMISA and other supporter shareholders) would no longer be sole owners of StMirren Proposal may piss off enough members that Dec 2021 target is not met Would lose option to sell spare shares later (Waldorf’s point) Questions Why is SMISA paying all legal fees to achieve this ? What happens to current Income from Kibble as a customer ? What are specific benefits to Kibble ? What does ‘Kibble will ....invest in new facilities’ mean and who would own these. I.e. is this new money coming from Kibble ? If present income is maintained what is revised date for original purchase plan ? (estimated 2023 - see above) For me it comes down to : Do we want jam now (2021) from the pros above or Do we wait another two years and buy outright ....and I cannae make my mind up.. After contacting SMISA with a query about an option to add "Save the Pot" to the 3 monthly spend pot votes. I met 2 members of the SMISA committee on Wednesday 28th November 2018 at Banco Nero. Their purpose was to dissuade me from pursuing the proposal on the £2 spend pot. During that meeting, they went through SMISA' finances with me, their forecasts & projections and stated to me, they'd have the funds (if member numbers remained at that level) to complete the purchase of St Mirren FC in 2023. They explained their plans to "build a rainy day fund" by maintaining member subscriptions beyond that date as "we have up to 10 years to complete the purchase of GLS' shares" 1200 members continuing to pay £12 per month for almost 4 years after they have the funds to complete the buyout realises a significant fund. The figure they put to me was in excess of £500000 which would help maintain "safeguarding The Club". Even if the £2 pot spend continued, they could raise more than half a million pounds if the BTB term went to the full 10 years. No matter when BTB completes, SMISA members will need to continue paying a subscription to remain a member. Even those who bought the £2500 package. That was a 10 year membership. I expect, there will be a drop off in membership once the Buds is Bought as there will be members who bought into a 10 year investment to safeguard St Mirren FC by bringing it under fan ownership. I am, in no doubts, this proposal to become co-owners with Kibble is dazzling but it is now very different to what SMISA sold to the fans. We don't need to be joint owners with Kibble or anyone else to make our fan ownership a success. SMISA can complete their purchase of GLS's shares and still have a very successful partnership/collaboration with Kibble without having Kibble as a shareholder. St Mirren will be safer owning 60+% of the shares, even safer owning 70+% of shares and even safer owning 80%+ of shares. It is unlikely SMISA will achieve owning of 100% of the shares but the more SMISA owns, the safer the club is. It really is that simple. Even though, SMISA become the majority shareholder, accepting this proposal, to accept a 3rd party purchasing 27% of the Club has it's risks. We have the gift to ensure the safety of St Mirren FC once & for all by buying the largest % of shareholding available to us and that is by continuing as is, complete the purchase in 2023 and build the rainy day fund through the continuing memberships required by each & every one of us to remain members of SMISA. I'd save the £2 pot too & create a bigger pot but that's a different argument Edited February 1, 2020 by Kombibuddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambud Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 Eh? Are SMISA not the fans? If Smisa sell their current 30% to the fans it can buy the GS shares next year WITHOUT the Kibble input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 It does not matter why , or whether they were asked. It will only come to pass if a majority of SMISA members OKs it. If you are a member you will have a vote, if you are not It shouldn't concern you.So anyone who isnt a smisa member has no right to be concerned a quarter of the club is being flogged off?What an arrogant fool you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldorf34 Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 39 minutes ago, Hambud said: Eh? Are SMISA not the fans? Smisa hold a batch of shares but I am sure a lot of individual fans would like to be shareholders in their own right and be able to vote at the AGM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rea Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) .....and now I have a nice long flight to read 21 pages..... ......wonder how much i will recognise.... I admit I have had a bit of a chuckle at this... Edited February 1, 2020 by rea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 .....and now I have a nice long flight to read 21 pages..... ......wonder how much i will recognise.... I admit I have had a bit of a chuckle at this...And rightly so. You earned it.Would love your thoughts on the Kibble proposal.If not on the forum then by pm.Happy flight!May your nuts be salty! [emoji12] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanleySaint Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 .....and now I have a nice long flight to read 21 pages..... ......wonder how much i will recognise.... I admit I have had a bit of a chuckle at this...I'm a smisa member and trying to decide what would be best to vote for and although there are a lot of conspiracy theory elements to LPM's postings he does raise some valid points, it seems to me that we haven't heard much from you of late and with the above post I don't think you've helped much. Don't get me wrong you are entirely at liberty to post or not as you see fit as is anyone else, just why this and why now? Confused of Stanley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 I'm a smisa member and trying to decide what would be best to vote for and although there are a lot of conspiracy theory elements to LPM's postings he does raise some valid points, it seems to me that we haven't heard much from you of late and with the above post I don't think you've helped much. Don't get me wrong you are entirely at liberty to post or not as you see fit as is anyone else, just why this and why now? Confused of StanleyYou don't think he has earned the right to gloat or snigger up his sleeve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanb Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 12 hours ago, cockles1987 said: 12 hours ago, waldorf34 said: After paying off the old board directors last summer Smisa own 29%GS owns 50.2%,so total 79.2% By GS selling 27.5% Smisa get 22.8% adding that to the 29% gives them 51.8% Forgot about the GLS 8% Always thought GLS was not selling his 8% and SMISA only ever referred to having a potential 71%. Of course as we can see, things can change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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