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Kibble/SMiSA Partnership

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Guest TPAFKATS
No, SMISA/ St Mirren fans are the bigger partner regarding the club. 
Yes I know. Is it an equal partnership between kibble and St. Mirren though?

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8 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

Yes, as I stated in a previous post. This sounds like a manifesto however I'm not seeing great evidence of what additional opportunities are out there. The second part you've highlighted is a "could".
Again that's highly political in its vagueness and is intended to infer something beneficial will happen, without committing to it... In my opinion.

Fair enough. At the end of the day like any deal you either trust it or you don't. I see clear indications of intent and the fact we have been working with Kibble for years now I assume there is some trust there. My gut reaction is a good deal for all concerned and see no disadvantages as I really do not see a charity wanting to take over complete control of a football club.

 

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From The National ......

 

Adam said: “Kibble can bring new resources and expertise to help St Mirren grow as a business – but more than that, it can help grow the club’s reach into the community of Paisley.

“Over the next few weeks, we’ll be talking to our members about what this means – and hopefully they will be as excited as we are by the possibilities.”

Jim Gillespie, chief executive of Kibble, commented: "We are incredibly excited by this important plan for both organisations, both of which were founded in Paisley in Victorian times and are a part of the town’s history.

"The purpose of our proposal is to step up Kibble’s young workforce development programme and improve the future prospects of our young people, including employability options, skills and qualifications. Our executive team has been working on a strategic plan to maximise our opportunities along these lines within St Mirren FC.

Our plan involves Kibble utilising all of St Mirren’s facilities, including the training ground at Ralston, to provide these opportunities in areas like catering, hospitality and apprenticeships in ground keeping and the various skills required for stadium maintenance.

"The day-to-day running of the football club will still be done by the professionals at St Mirren who do it well, but they will be supported by Kibble's expertise in areas such as HR, finance, marketing and communications."

Scott said: "When I took over as chairman and majority shareholder in 2016, it was with the intention of taking the club forward and working with SMISA to create a sustainable and successful fan ownership model.

“This is the right time, the right corporate partner and the right model. The club is in a very strong place right now – financially, in terms of stadium and academy infrastructure, and the people we have employed at all levels of the football club."

 
 
 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:
21 minutes ago, bazil85 said:
No, SMISA/ St Mirren fans are the bigger partner regarding the club. 

Yes I know. Is it an equal partnership between kibble and St. Mirren though?

I'm not sure what you mean? 

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1 minute ago, Sonny said:

From The National ......

 

Adam said: “Kibble can bring new resources and expertise to help St Mirren grow as a business – but more than that, it can help grow the club’s reach into the community of Paisley.

“Over the next few weeks, we’ll be talking to our members about what this means – and hopefully they will be as excited as we are by the possibilities.”

Jim Gillespie, chief executive of Kibble, commented: "We are incredibly excited by this important plan for both organisations, both of which were founded in Paisley in Victorian times and are a part of the town’s history.

"The purpose of our proposal is to step up Kibble’s young workforce development programme and improve the future prospects of our young people, including employability options, skills and qualifications. Our executive team has been working on a strategic plan to maximise our opportunities along these lines within St Mirren FC.

Our plan involves Kibble utilising all of St Mirren’s facilities, including the training ground at Ralston, to provide these opportunities in areas like catering, hospitality and apprenticeships in ground keeping and the various skills required for stadium maintenance.

"The day-to-day running of the football club will still be done by the professionals at St Mirren who do it well, but they will be supported by Kibble's expertise in areas such as HR, finance, marketing and communications."

Scott said: "When I took over as chairman and majority shareholder in 2016, it was with the intention of taking the club forward and working with SMISA to create a sustainable and successful fan ownership model.

“This is the right time, the right corporate partner and the right model. The club is in a very strong place right now – financially, in terms of stadium and academy infrastructure, and the people we have employed at all levels of the football club."

 
 
 

 

 

From what I read, my understanding is that Kibble benefit from using our facilities as well as exposure for the brand tying in with St Mirrens community values.
In return St Mirren get the highly beneficial access of resources that Kibble have, including a helping hand in areas of the business through employment options. After all they are a CIC company so cannot profit a return.

They are not here to take over, far from it. SMISA will be majority shareholder at 51%, by time the deal is in place, if it is voted in. GS with his shareholding % along with Kibble will have places on the board due to their shares value and will all have valuable input, though it will be SMISA controlling things by that point with business minded people surrounding them.

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Kibble are obviously not in this for altruistic reasons but it does seem that the club & it's resources fit well with their organisation & it's stated aims. 
But crucially.... not the other way round!

What self respecting company effectively hands control to a third party with a 1/4 to 1/3 stake when the deal almost entirely benefits the smaller party?

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2 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

But crucially.... not the other way round!

What self respecting company effectively hands control to a third party with a 1/4 to 1/3 stake when the deal almost entirely benefits the smaller party?

There is nothing that suggests that true, it's your own fabrication. Further evidence of how hypocritical you are being, isn't it your view we should be making strides to benefit the community? 

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You can see why Kibble have been after the club for years. They tried in the 10000 hours debacle, now their back just like a pack of Brexiteers...
And being about as vague on the benefits for Smfc as Farage etc were about the benefits of Brexit...

BtB fan ownership swiftly changed to "geezer yir dinner money" and now its Third party ownership.

Can anyone say WHY?

Why does st mirren need Kibble?

I can see why Kibble need smfc...

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12 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

But crucially.... not the other way round!

What self respecting company effectively hands control to a third party with a 1/4 to 1/3 stake when the deal almost entirely benefits the smaller party?

I understand concerns that Kibble are a bigger organisation than Saints and that they might be able to exercise more influence than the 27.5% stake they will hold, it's a valid point and one that SMiSA will I'm sure be aware of now that you've pointed it out, however we were always going to reach "the endgame" when the post-GLS situation had to be sorted. I think overall this seems like a good deal

  • it still leaves SMiSA with overall control of the club (51%)
  • saves the ordinary SMiSA punter some money (I said at the time £7.66 was an overvaluation for shares that had remaned unsold for 7 years)..
  • gets it all over sooner.
Edited by Bud the Baker

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Guest TPAFKATS
I'm not sure what you mean? 
There is nothing that suggests that true, it's your own fabrication. Further evidence of how hypocritical you are being, isn't it your view we should be making strides to benefit the community? 
This is what I was asking you in my earlier reply.
I can see that kibble will have a 27% share in St. Mirren, however what is the partnership arrangement between the two. Is it equal or 3/4 to 1/4?

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2 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

This is what I was asking you in my earlier reply.
I can see that kibble will have a 27% share in St. Mirren, however what is the partnership arrangement between the two. Is it equal or 3/4 to 1/4?

SMiSA -51%

Kibble - 27.5%

Small Shareholders - 21%

Rounding Error - 0.5%

 

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Guest TPAFKATS



Fair enough. At the end of the day like any deal you either trust it or you don't. I see clear indications of intent and the fact we have been working with Kibble for years now I assume there is some trust there. My gut reaction is a good deal for all concerned and see no disadvantages as I really do not see a charity wanting to take over complete control of a football club.
 


I'm not distrusting the deal or them really.
I'm still trying to work out why a charity wants to spend a six figure sum to get a 27% share in a football club which even though its a private company isn't likely to return much of a profit, if any.
I'm also not sure what this will allow them to do on partnership with us that they couldn't currently do?

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I understand concerns that Kibble are a bigger organisation than Saints and that they might be able to exercise more influence than the 27.5% stake they will hold, it's a valid point and one that SMiSA will I'm sure be aware of now that you've pointed it out, however we were always going to reach "the endgame" when the post-GLS situation had to be sorted. I think overall this seems like a good deal

  • it still leaves SMiSA with overall control of the club (51%)
  • saves the ordinary SMiSA punter some money.
  • gets it all over sooner.
Aye and I am sure Kibble only want 27.5%

 

Over 25%: As expected, a majority shareholding puts the holder in strong position. Do not underestimate however the strength of holding over one quarter of the share capital. With this you can block special resolutions (which require approval of the holders of 75% or more of the share capital

 

Rendering smisa a puppet regime, who will be under the influence of the investors. Fan ownership my arse.

 

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4 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

I understand concerns that Kibble are a bigger organisation than Saints and that they might be able to exercise more influence than the 27.5% stake they will hold, it's a valid point and one that SMiSA will I'm sure be aware of now that you've pointed it out, however we were always going to reach "the endgame" when the post-GLS situation had to be sorted. I think overall this seems like a good deal

  • it still leaves SMiSA with overall control of the club (51%)
  • saves the ordinary SMiSA punter some money.
  • gets it all over sooner.

It brings more expertise onboard, exactly.

With a successful organisation like Kibble involved, I personally would feel more comfortable post takeover, with another business minded head added to the club to help runnings. 

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Guest TPAFKATS
SMiSA -51%
Kibble - 27.5%
Small Shareholders - 21%
Rounding Error - 0.5%
 
That's different from the partnership arrangement though?

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It brings more expertise onboard, exactly.
With a successful organisation like Kibble involved, I personally would feel more comfortable post takeover, with another business minded head added to the club to help runnings. 
Expertise to do the things that benefit Kibble.

Unless they are successful professional football club owners and just haven't said?

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4 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

This is what I was asking you in my earlier reply.
I can see that kibble will have a 27% share in St. Mirren, however what is the partnership arrangement between the two. Is it equal or 3/4 to 1/4?

For me there's two different questions being asked here. One is known one is not known but can be speculated on (generally speaking it's based on future events and as such can't be fully known like practically any other business deal like this)

1. What is the breakdown of ownership and arrangement. This is known, SMISA (fans) will have majority owners, majority directors choice and the greater power on paper over the two parties. 

2. How will this work regarding who will benefit more? Unknown, however based on what we do know it's likely to be mutually beneficial because the related success of the ownership model is dependent on SMFC performance and positioning as a football club. Kibble will get more benefit if SMFC are strong and as such it's in their interest to support that, the young people they support will also get more out of a strong SMFC. Their values and reputation also backs up the likely benefit from SMFC in entering this arrangement. 

There is however an alternative view. That Kibble will come in, shaft SMFC left, right and centre, practically asset strip the club, not support or favour any growth whatsoever, rince the club for as much money as they can and not care at all about the potential reputation damage (Paisley and wider) that would hit them if they only protected their own interests with no vision at the harm of SMFC. They don't care if St Mirren falter and say fell down the leagues, even though it would likely hamper the benefits they would get in a successful SMFC and this is all going to go completely wrong for the club. Of course, given how unfounded and baseless this is, there's only one contributor that's really championing it.

What are the chances, it's the same contributor that changes his view on community benefit dependent on the scenario GLS/ SMISA are currently occupying... Astounding. 

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Will the kibble be intending to eventually replace the local workforce who work in the hospitality, catering, stewarding etc, on match days who I am guessing do it to fund their studies or even help pay their rent, with kids from the Kibble,  Would this make up part of their traineeship program of employment 

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Will the kibble be intending to eventually replace the local workforce who work in the hospitality, catering, stewarding etc, on match days who I am guessing do it to fund their studies or even help pay their rent, with kids from the Kibble,  Would this make up part of their traineeship program of employment 
Of course it would, that's exactly what Kibble want

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10 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:


 

 

 


I'm not distrusting the deal or them really.
I'm still trying to work out why a charity wants to spend a six figure sum to get a 27% share in a football club which even though its a private company isn't likely to return much of a profit, if any.
I'm also not sure what this will allow them to do on partnership with us that they couldn't currently do?

 

Got doubts myself, why do we need them, and is someone wanting their cash quicker ?

What exactly will we get, as there are some fairly vague statements at the moment.

"In return St Mirren get the highly beneficial access of resources that Kibble have, including a helping hand in areas of the business through employment options"

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Guest TPAFKATS



For me there's two different questions being asked here. One is known one is not known but can be speculated on (generally speaking it's based on future events and as such can't be fully known like practically any other business deal like this)
1. What is the breakdown of ownership and arrangement. This is known, SMISA (fans) will have majority owners, majority directors choice and the greater power on paper over the two parties. 
2. How will this work regarding who will benefit more? Unknown, however based on what we do know it's likely to be mutually beneficial because the related success of the ownership model is dependent on SMFC performance and positioning as a football club. Kibble will get more benefit if SMFC are strong and as such it's in their interest to support that, the young people they support will also get more out of a strong SMFC. Their values and reputation also backs up the likely benefit from SMFC in entering this arrangement. 
There is however an alternative view. That Kibble will come in, shaft SMFC left, right and centre, practically asset strip the club, not support or favour any growth whatsoever, rince the club for as much money as they can and not care at all about the potential reputation damage (Paisley and wider) that would hit them if they only protected their own interests with no vision at the harm of SMFC. They don't care if St Mirren falter and say fell down the leagues, even though it would likely hamper the benefits they would get in a successful SMFC and this is all going to go completely wrong for the club. Of course, given how unfounded and baseless this is, there's only one contributor that's really championing it.
What are the chances, it's the same contributor that changes his view on community benefit dependent on the scenario GLS/ SMISA are currently occupying... Astounding. 


I think you've gone off on a bit of a tangent here. This what I'm asking, along with is the partnership between the two 50/50?







I'm not distrusting the deal or them really.
I'm still trying to work out why a charity wants to spend a six figure sum to get a 27% share in a football club which even though its a private company isn't likely to return much of a profit, if any.
I'm also not sure what this will allow them to do on partnership with us that they couldn't currently do?


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Guest TPAFKATS



It brings more expertise onboard, exactly.
With a successful organisation like Kibble involved, I personally would feel more comfortable post takeover, with another business minded head added to the club to help runnings. 


If we need a business minded head to enhance the running of the club then we just need to get oaksoft or St. Ricky involved.

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20 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:


 

 


I'm not distrusting the deal or them really.
I'm still trying to work out why a charity wants to spend a six figure sum to get a 27% share in a football club which even though its a private company isn't likely to return much of a profit, if any.
I'm also not sure what this will allow them to do on partnership with us that they couldn't currently do?

 

Just change the word highlighted with business and you have your answer 

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