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Kibble/SMiSA Partnership Proposal (Merged)


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Whatever your views on this proposal, and how questions, answers and statements/promises tonight and up till vote closing may affect that, personally, I am worried.
Not about the organisation Kibble is, they do fantastic work with young people desperately in need of another chance.
And not about what the members decide, as well that's the whole point of Buy The Buds... fan ownership, which means they get to decide.
What worries me is the simple fact that Kibble, and Saints fans just dont want the same things!

No doubt there is overlap in what we both want, Kibble hiring our facilities for a market rate is a no brainer, the fact the work they do could lead to opportunities for young people at the club the opportunity to partner with them to properly develop Smfc community trust etc...

The worry is the certainty that we will want different things, and go to the necessary lengths to make those happen, and that will be to the eventual detriment of both organisations.

I make no excuses for calling out The current board, as having got to the place the previous board did of "run out of steam, ideas, inspiration and just giving a f**k" it's just the previous board took Decades to get there, and the current incumbents are indicating they've powered down within a couple of years!

During and immediately after BtB there was so much good will, and people wanting to get involved with the club to develop ideas that would see the club grow.
Anyone seen any of those ideas, or that good will transferred into growth?
Feck me they have even mirrored the oldies by selling out kids to the bigots, not developing any new revenue streams, letting outside organisations run & profit from Hospitality, Snack stalls, the club shop.... and now, with the Kibble proposal basically handing the reins over to them for anything that requires "Expertise"....

Kibble are happy to sink £300k into getting in the boardroom so c'mon..! They want, and know exactly how they will get a handsome return on that investment. But given both our organisations differing aims... we wont both be shooting at the same goal for the whole match.
That is simply a plain fact.

Do we really have the capability to run a successful, professional football club, while simultaneously trying to deal with factions in what is supposed to be a fan owned boardroom?

For me, given the evidence of the board's effectiveness so far (5 managers, no new revenue), and Smisa's willingness to jump through hoops to serve and placate them the answer is no..!
I dont believe the club could survive in any reasonable measure of relative success if it has a dual purpose leadership.

The evidence since BtB is that we as an organisation are still fragile, if you look at a definition of the stages successful teams have to go through to achieve (Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing) each day... then we intermittently hit Norming, and once achieved Performing...
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuckman%27s_stages_of_group_development)

We have a lot to learn as an organisation, and exactly what type of organisation we want to aspire to. Remember the promises of all in together in BtB? Or how much involvement fans who wanted to (with relevant proven GOOD experienced) could have in the club?
See any evidence of that?

For me we need to learn and grow in our own way first, before adopting someone else's mantra, and trying to make that work for two hugely different organisations.

I sense there has been more than reluctance, but a fear of striking out with new ideas, projects etc for fear of failing!
Well how do you learn to ride a bike, curl a free kick, place a penalty..?
You just have to try, practice and learn, and that in my opinion is where this Smfc/Smisa organisation is just now. Scared to go for the bye line in case a tackle comes in and takes the ball.

Well who wants to see a winger/wingback cut back in and play it back or sideways every time?
We can mirror organisations like kibble by being the best version of "US" we can be, first and foremost.
Then... we'll see.

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32 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Whatever your views on this proposal, and how questions, answers and statements/promises tonight and up till vote closing may affect that, personally, I am worried.
Not about the organisation Kibble is, they do fantastic work with young people desperately in need of another chance.
And not about what the members decide, as well that's the whole point of Buy The Buds... fan ownership, which means they get to decide.
What worries me is the simple fact that Kibble, and Saints fans just dont want the same things!

No doubt there is overlap in what we both want, Kibble hiring our facilities for a market rate is a no brainer, the fact the work they do could lead to opportunities for young people at the club the opportunity to partner with them to properly develop Smfc community trust etc...

The worry is the certainty that we will want different things, and go to the necessary lengths to make those happen, and that will be to the eventual detriment of both organisations.

I make no excuses for calling out The current board, as having got to the place the previous board did of "run out of steam, ideas, inspiration and just giving a f**k" it's just the previous board took Decades to get there, and the current incumbents are indicating they've powered down within a couple of years!

During and immediately after BtB there was so much good will, and people wanting to get involved with the club to develop ideas that would see the club grow.
Anyone seen any of those ideas, or that good will transferred into growth?
Feck me they have even mirrored the oldies by selling out kids to the bigots, not developing any new revenue streams, letting outside organisations run & profit from Hospitality, Snack stalls, the club shop.... and now, with the Kibble proposal basically handing the reins over to them for anything that requires "Expertise"....

Kibble are happy to sink £300k into getting in the boardroom so c'mon..! They want, and know exactly how they will get a handsome return on that investment. But given both our organisations differing aims... we wont both be shooting at the same goal for the whole match.
That is simply a plain fact.

Do we really have the capability to run a successful, professional football club, while simultaneously trying to deal with factions in what is supposed to be a fan owned boardroom?

For me, given the evidence of the board's effectiveness so far (5 managers, no new revenue), and Smisa's willingness to jump through hoops to serve and placate them the answer is no..!
I dont believe the club could survive in any reasonable measure of relative success if it has a dual purpose leadership.

The evidence since BtB is that we as an organisation are still fragile, if you look at a definition of the stages successful teams have to go through to achieve (Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing) each day... then we intermittently hit Norming, and once achieved Performing...
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuckman%27s_stages_of_group_development)

We have a lot to learn as an organisation, and exactly what type of organisation we want to aspire to. Remember the promises of all in together in BtB? Or how much involvement fans who wanted to (with relevant proven GOOD experienced) could have in the club?
See any evidence of that?

For me we need to learn and grow in our own way first, before adopting someone else's mantra, and trying to make that work for two hugely different organisations.

I sense there has been more than reluctance, but a fear of striking out with new ideas, projects etc for fear of failing!
Well how do you learn to ride a bike, curl a free kick, place a penalty..?
You just have to try, practice and learn, and that in my opinion is where this Smfc/Smisa organisation is just now. Scared to go for the bye line in case a tackle comes in and takes the ball.

Well who wants to see a winger/wingback cut back in and play it back or sideways every time?
We can mirror organisations like kibble by being the best version of "US" we can be, first and foremost.
Then... we'll see.

Ignoring that most of this is just repetitive and the large volume of lies and spin, here’s my points.

  1. “Fan ownership, which means they get to decide.” Shame you haven’t applied this consistently in the past.
  2. “The worry” the exact wording GLS used in a recent interview regarding risks that exist with fan ownership. Is this you saying there will definitely be detriment for both organisations or is that a risk that concerns you? We apparently have to be very careful given the way some fans interpret these things…
  3. Your view on the current board is completely unfounded. It must stick in your throat but SMFC have progressed on and off the park every season since they took over
  4. Your goodwill transfer into growth point – Yes we have, please compare where we are now to where we were then
  5. They have developed new revenue streams, you’ve been called out on this many times. It is a blatant lie to suggest otherwise.
  6. Two stand arrangement done to death. Curious though, surely this arrangement will put the decision to the fans much sooner on this?
  7. It makes business sense to pull in the same direction, one side hindering the other will be counter-productive. Your continued claims that this will happen and that Kibble are in this to take massive profit is completely baseless. You’ve now seemingly claimed to know better than both sides and that it will also detriment Kibble. Again unfounded.
  8. Your breakdown of the clubs effectiveness is simply ridiculous. Ignores us going from 7th in the Championship to an SP team, ignores recorded profit every single year since new BOD came in. Lies about no new income streams and fails to caveat the manager changes.
  9. Your jump through hoops comment contradicts your earlier point on us deciding how money is spent.
  10. No evidence we will be adopting the Kibbles “mantra” at the expense of our own
  11. They aren’t hugely different organisations in regards to values and goals.

 

As others have said to you on here, your rambling, lies, vendetta and clear hatred towards GLS clouds what potentially could be some (not many) decent points. You’re doing yourself no favours in this debate.

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Ignoring that most of this is just repetitive and the large volume of lies and spin, here’s my points.
  1. “Fan ownership, which means they get to decide.” Shame you haven’t applied this consistently in the past.
  2. “The worry” the exact wording GLS used in a recent interview regarding risks that exist with fan ownership. Is this you saying there will definitely be detriment for both organisations or is that a risk that concerns you? We apparently have to be very careful given the way some fans interpret these things…
  3. Your view on the current board is completely unfounded. It must stick in your throat but SMFC have progressed on and off the park every season since they took over
  4. Your goodwill transfer into growth point – Yes we have, please compare where we are now to where we were then
  5. They have developed new revenue streams, you’ve been called out on this many times. It is a blatant lie to suggest otherwise.
  6. Two stand arrangement done to death. Curious though, surely this arrangement will put the decision to the fans much sooner on this?
  7. It makes business sense to pull in the same direction, one side hindering the other will be counter-productive. Your continued claims that this will happen and that Kibble are in this to take massive profit is completely baseless. You’ve now seemingly claimed to know better than both sides and that it will also detriment Kibble. Again unfounded.
  8. Your breakdown of the clubs effectiveness is simply ridiculous. Ignores us going from 7th in the Championship to an SP team, ignores recorded profit every single year since new BOD came in. Lies about no new income streams and fails to caveat the manager changes.
  9. Your jump through hoops comment contradicts your earlier point on us deciding how money is spent.
  10. No evidence we will be adopting the Kibbles “mantra” at the expense of our own
  11. They aren’t hugely different organisations in regards to values and goals.
 
As others have said to you on here, your rambling, lies, vendetta and clear hatred towards GLS clouds what potentially could be some (not many) decent points. You’re doing yourself no favours in this debate.
Thanks for adding something new and constructive to the discussion!

No, wait... It's just you fixating on one poster yet again... despite claiming not to care about the vote outcome. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
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Thanks for adding something new and constructive to the discussion!

No, wait... It's just you fixating on one poster yet again... despite claiming not to care about the vote outcome. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
And yet he provides not one piece of evidenced argument! Or indeed an opinion on why ending up 27.5% Kibble will be good for smfc and smisa?
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5 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Thanks for adding something new and constructive to the discussion!

No, wait... It's just you fixating on one poster yet again... despite claiming not to care about the vote outcome. emoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.png

You'd know all about that. 

More spin from you, I never said I don't care about the vote outcome, I said I don't mind either way. Because I favour the democratic choice of our members and can see benefits in keeping or changing. 

I have yet again so easily caught you out. Ouch

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16 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:
25 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:
Thanks for adding something new and constructive to the discussion!

No, wait... It's just you fixating on one poster yet again... despite claiming not to care about the vote outcome. emoji23.pngemoji23.pngemoji23.png

And yet he provides not one piece of evidenced argument! Or indeed an opinion on why ending up 27.5% Kibble will be good for smfc and smisa?

LPM talking about Evidenced - Lol 

I have trust in the people at our club and believe the below. The only question left for me is if this WILL be better than current arrangement. 

- SMISA created the #BuyTheBuds campaign because there could be no better owners than the people who will care for the club most – you, the fans.

- this delivers majority fan ownership in half the time and for around half the cost we first thought – but crucially it delivers it better;

- we will be in partnership with an organisation who can help St Mirren grow as a business – creating new income to be reinvested into the football team;

- Kibble share our values – neither of us wants to make profit for ourselves – we want a club which benefits the community;

- the club will be owned by the fans and run by those best qualified. SMISA will be able to shape the future direction of the club – and put in place people we trust to run it on our behalf;

- as a member you are not only helping deliver the buyout, but once we own the club you will continue to have a vote on all SMISA issues, and your views will be represented in club decisions;

As I have said before, I can see it from both sides and it's a tough one for me. I haven't made up my mind on how I'll vote yet, hopefully after tonight. No doubt my stalker will spin that to me not caring. 

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And yet he provides not one piece of evidenced argument! Or indeed an opinion on why ending up 27.5% Kibble will be good for smfc and smisa?
Apparently he doesn't have a view one way or the other.

Just feels the need to stalk and berate you at every opportunity.

I'd carry lube if I was you! Just to be safe! GLS might have discovered Baz up his arse and shat him out!

I certainly smell shite in all his personal vandetta posts!
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Apparently he doesn't have a view one way or the other.

Just feels the need to stalk and berate you at every opportunity.

I'd carry lube if I was you! Just to be safe! GLS might have discovered Baz up his arse and shat him out!

I certainly smell shite in all his personal vandetta posts!
Again no evidence, basis for debate or argument... just noise! Better, best forgotten
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12 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:
14 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:
Apparently he doesn't have a view one way or the other.

Just feels the need to stalk and berate you at every opportunity.

I'd carry lube if I was you! Just to be safe! GLS might have discovered Baz up his arse and shat him out!

I certainly smell shite in all his personal vandetta posts!
 
Again more spin from you. I haven't decided how I will vote yet, that doesn't mean I don't have views. 
Rest is clearly just bitterness and a pitiful reverse psychology attempt. 
 

Again no evidence, basis for debate or argument... just noise! Better, best forgotten

You've provided no evidence for your side either, there is nothing concrete that either side currently has.

I am going on what we know so far and hope we will get further clarity. You immediately decided you were against it because your personal view needs to be the contrast to GLS regardless. Evident in your moving goalposts. 

 

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To be honest I thought that post by LPM was probably his most measured I've ever seen, particularly by his standards and the response has turned into the usual borefest of shite after shite. 

I don't think the response would have been the same if the post was made by someone else. Its absolutely tedious now. 

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To be honest I thought that post by LPM was probably his most measured I've ever seen, particularly by his standards and the response has turned into the usual borefest of shite after shite.  I don't think the response would have been the same if the post was made by someone else. Its absolutely tedious now. 

 

And that is what the posters of this shite want! they want buds to turn off, shrug and say ho-hum.They dont want to see buds like you questioning, challenging and winkleing out the facts to enable you to make a considered decision.

Whatever your decision is, don't let the 'Negs' derail it with apathy.

 

P.s. you know every time a posters comments positively on my posts they go feckin ape shit! Oh yes and a bit of Greenock dies too.

 

Edit: see the first post to quote you just makes stuff up that never happened to try and deflect you from considering the merits or not of my post.

 

It's just the whine of apathy, desperate to stop any dissenting voice, or people trying to find a better way. Pop then on ignore.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Slartibartfast said:

It was quite measured by his standards.  Why couldn't he have started like that instead of all the conspiracy and scaremongering shite?  Makes you wonder.

I can filter that, the problem is when him and basil start. Both of them are the same just at opposite ends of the divide. I reckon LPM knows what he's doing, basil seems oblivious though. 

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28 minutes ago, slapsalmon said:

To be honest I thought that post by LPM was probably his most measured I've ever seen, particularly by his standards and the response has turned into the usual borefest of shite after shite. 

I don't think the response would have been the same if the post was made by someone else. Its absolutely tedious now. 

Unfortunately in the case of that particular poster his overwhelming negativity about everything to do with the football club for the past couple of years means his opinion is now pretty much worthless even if there are some salient arguments buried in there somewhere.

Hopefully the members will go along tonight in decent numbers and take in the presentation, ask some questions, and make their own minds up about the proposal.

If you can't be there then I gather it will be made available online for members to digest prior to the vote.

Whether the proposal passes or is defeated the journey towards fan ownership continues.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

And that is what the posters of this shite want! they want buds to turn off, shrug and say ho-hum.They dont want to see buds like you questioning, challenging and winkleing out the facts to enable you to make a considered decision.

Whatever your decision is, don't let the 'Negs' derail it with apathy.

 

P.s. you know every time a posters comments positively on my posts they go feckin ape shit! Oh yes and a bit of Greenock dies too.

 

Edit: see the first post to quote you just makes stuff up that never happened to try and deflect you from considering the merits or not of my post.

 

It's just the whine of apathy, desperate to stop any dissenting voice, or people trying to find a better way. Pop then on ignore.

 

 

The thing is, you crave the reaction. You sprinkle your posts with lies, spin and nonsense in the hope of triggering. I personally am happy to oblige because I self admittedly enjoy this part of BAWA. It is completely clear what you're doing though and you pull the wool over very few peoples eyes.

- People know you are perfectly aware of the caveats regarding some of those five managers.

- They know you're aware there are new income streams.

- They know you're aware that SMFC has progressed on and off the park under GLS.

- They know you don't have information on this arrangement being detrimental to both parties or that Kibble will try and take large profits from the club. 

These comments don't fool people (mostly). they simply know you do it for the reaction and attention.  

 

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Unfortunately in the case of that particular poster his overwhelming negativity about everything to do with the football club for the past couple of years means his opinion is now pretty much worthless even if there are some salient arguments buried in there somewhere.
Hopefully the members will go along tonight in decent numbers and take in the presentation, ask some questions, and make their own minds up about the proposal.
If you can't be there then I gather it will be made available online for members to digest prior to the vote.
Whether the proposal passes or is defeated the journey towards fan ownership continues.
 
 
You see..
More of Gordon's Guys trying to brow beat you with baseless pish. They really dont like it when posters stop and think for themselves. Instead of George"s politician/car salesman mantra 'know your ABC.. I.e.
Always
Be
Selling
I did have a good chuckle at the press conference video on the club site where even Gordon had to try to rein him in and say to the press despite what George says... it's not a done deal.
Of course the media arent interested in that once you've let the cat out of the bag, hence all the 'done deal' comment in the media.
Fifty odd years a buddies, if Gordon's Guys think they can hound me out, they're even more superficial than they sound lol...
I'll be around a lot longer than them!
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37 minutes ago, slapsalmon said:

I can filter that, the problem is when him and basil start. Both of them are the same just at opposite ends of the divide. I reckon LPM knows what he's doing, basil seems oblivious though. 

I feel like you're probably still upset about our last engagement more than anything else... 🤣

3 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

It was more the way he was putting things.  He was saying that they WERE going to happen.  When asked for proof he refused and tried to deflect the burden of proof.  To be fair, Baz does the exact same thing, just from the opposite perspective regarding the club..  It is amusing watching them both ask others for proof, though. :lol

I don't think I ever claim to have evidence when I don't TBF. 

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It was more the way he was putting things.  He was saying that they WERE going to happen.  When asked for proof he refused and tried to deflect the burden of proof.  To be fair, Baz does the exact same thing, just from the opposite perspective regarding the club..  It is amusing watching them both ask others for proof, though. [emoji38]

Of course you've got 'Proof' of this... It'd be a first lol. Please list these conspiracy theories, I am sure everyone wants to see them laid out.

 

Liue I said before... posters like thus one just want to fill the forum with noise to deflect. They add nothing to debate.

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