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Kibble/SMiSA Partnership Proposal (Merged)


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One could seek to turn this pitiful little debate on its head

 

If Kibble are so great (they arent) and if Kibble and our club are so well matched why do Kibble not just buy the club and Smisa can just f**k off?  In fact what do Smisa bring to the party, especially when the great Kibble are seeking to dine at it?

Smisa would not appear to know its arse from its elbow and seeking to make such significant changes to its model so late in the day suggests to me that Smisa are unfit for purpose.

 

But hey who cares, some of you have your names on a wall!!!!!!!!

 

 

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4 hours ago, div said:

Unfortunately in the case of that particular poster his overwhelming negativity about everything to do with the football club for the past couple of years means his opinion is now pretty much worthless even if there are some salient arguments buried in there somewhere.

Hopefully the members will go along tonight in decent numbers and take in the presentation, ask some questions, and make their own minds up about the proposal.

If you can't be there then I gather it will be made available online for members to digest prior to the vote.

Whether the proposal passes or is defeated the journey towards fan ownership continues.

 

 

I get what your saying, I think basil is exactly the same though, My comment was on the fact the post I was referencing was actually reasonably balanced for a change. Something I've yet to see from his opposite number. 

 

It's a rod he's made for his own back, but it was a fairly reasonable post and didn't deserve the shit storm that followed it. 

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19 minutes ago, TediousTom said:

One could seek to turn this pitiful little debate on its head

 

If Kibble are so great (they arent) and if Kibble and our club are so well matched why do Kibble not just buy the club and Smisa can just f**k off?  In fact what do Smisa bring to the party, especially when the great Kibble are seeking to dine at it?

Smisa would not appear to know its arse from its elbow and seeking to make such significant changes to its model so late in the day suggests to me that Smisa are unfit for purpose.

 

But hey who cares, some of you have your names on a wall!!!!!!!!

 

 

I'll admit my name is on the wall but even I wonder what the plan is.

Irrespective of the pros and cons of working with Kibble what this proposal does is create a scenario where Kibble could buy the Club.

Smisa Website says that if this goes ahead then during the interim period either GS, the Kibble or SMISA can veto any of the following.

- a number of matters will require the mutual approval of all three major shareholders (SMISA, Kibble, Gordon). These will include:

  • appointments or removals of a director of the club
  • the sale of the stadium, changes to the club’s name, colour or badge, changing the club’s grass pitch to astroturf, and the appointment of major sponsors;
  • any major borrowings, major contracts outwith the normal course of business, and approval of the club’s business plan;
  • any major structural changes to St Mirren as a company, such as any reorganisation of its share capital, or changes to the club’s articles of association.

After the deal is complete and Kibble only own 27.5% then either SMISA or Kibble can veto any of the above. Kibble still have a veto.

If SMISA find themselves in trouble and have to sell shares then Kibble get first option on buying. Not sure how it would evolve but theoretically  Kibble could end up with 71% of the shares if SMISA dissolves.

https://www.smisa.net/buythebuds/kibble-vote   Outlines this.

 

If Tedious Tom is right and SMISA don't know their arse from their elbow this deal could actually be the beginning of the end for Fan ownership.

Has TT uncovered a great conspiracy?

 

 

 

 

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On 2/5/2020 at 1:58 PM, alanb said:

Vote – Sat 8 Feb to Fri 21 Feb

Your invitation to vote will be sent out on Saturday 8 February and the voting period will run until Friday 21st. This longer-than-usual voting period is intended to give time for members to digest the contents of the meeting and for any additional questions to be answered.

Voting will take place online using the Very Connect system so any members who have not yet registered should do so as soon as they can. Email [email protected] if you need any support to do this. The vote will be decided by a simple majority of those voting.

We thank everybody for their contributions to this hugely important issue for our club’s future.

 

SMISA voters labelled Simple.... Outrageous

Aye, way too generous. 

So, just a majority required to pass this momentous proposal?

Everything in the proposers favour IMO. 

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One could seek to turn this pitiful little debate on its head
 
If Kibble are so great (they arent) and if Kibble and our club are so well matched why do Kibble not just buy the club and Smisa can just f**k off?  In fact what do Smisa bring to the party, especially when the great Kibble are seeking to dine at it?
Smisa would not appear to know its arse from its elbow and seeking to make such significant changes to its model so late in the day suggests to me that Smisa are unfit for purpose.
 
But hey who cares, some of you have your names on a wall!!!!!!!!
 
 
Who wants to be St Kibble?
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16 minutes ago, Yflab said:

It was a very positive meeting tonight. I was very sceptical beforehand but I came away feeling very positive about this proposal. I’d recommend that you all listen to the recording and make your own mind up before you vote.

Where will the recording be available?

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5 minutes ago, whydowebother said:

Doesn’t change the fact, it’s not what we signed up for

Our 3 votes are NO

Up to you mate, and I respect your opinion.

Fan ownership was why I signed up to BTB, and fan ownership is very much being delivered with or without Kibble.

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15 minutes ago, div said:

Up to you mate, and I respect your opinion.

Fan ownership was why I signed up to BTB, and fan ownership is very much being delivered with or without Kibble.

I get your point but we all signed up for 100% fan ownership (including minority shareholders) and are now being offered part fan  ownership 

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4 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Aye, way too generous. 

So, just a majority required to pass this momentous proposal?

Everything in the proposers favour IMO. 

I'm not a member. I added two comments earlier in this debate. This included the suggestion that whether or not there was a legal requirement to do so, an EGM and 75% level in favour would mirror best practice and aid transparency. I also suggested that if the proposers were confident in the merits of their  case then they too should welcome this. Additionally, I flagged up that GLS getting his money back was a red herring. Over to members. 

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I'll be honest I was sceptical about this deal but the guys from the kibble came across well IMO. The more I think about it, it will be better to have a partner like them than to get control of the club then realise we don't have the resources and expertise to do it, a bit like the Dundee supporters, and end up selling to someone we don't really want running our club

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1 hour ago, Buddymarvellous said:

I get your point but we all signed up for 100% fan ownership (including minority shareholders) and are now being offered part fan  ownership 

Owning 51% of the shares is fan ownership.

If it’s good enough for every club in Germany, it’s good enough for us IMO.

Bringing fan ownership in 5 years ahead of schedule, saving the fans £300K in the process, and getting to benefit from the infrastructure and expertise of a £30m turnover partner and all the while giving a hand to young people in need sounds like a big win to me.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Dickson said:

Aye OK, so benefits yada yada. Fine I get that. 

But what are St Mirren giving away? What are Kibble getting for their £300k? They are getting something because if they weren't the trustees of their charity would be in a lot of trouble. So what is St Mirren giving away to Kibble so that Gordon Scott gets his money early? 

Surely someone asked? 

If the deal goes through Kibble are getting a degree of control over the club that they plan to use as a base for implementing some of their projects while offering the club economies on various fronts in return, the carrot for SMiSA members is getting control of the club for less money (Is 51% ownership sufficient?) and for GLS it's getting his outlay back 5 years earlier.

The key question is whether the part-time SMiSA board members will be able to effectively scrutinise the activities of a larger organisation who despite being minor partners (27.5% compared to SMiSAs 51%) will be on-site on a daily basis and whose representatives on Saints board may likewise have more time to spend at GHR and be better informed and better placed to steer the club.

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So, in essence, office space and facilities that are St Mirren FC Ltd assets have been sold off to get Gordon Scott his money back a bit earlier? The kind of thing that SMISA accused Richard Atkinson of trying to do back in the 10000hours days. Will St Mirren fans be represented at SFA and SPFL meetings by - for example - a Rangers or Celtic supporting Kibble trustee? 
Kibble could have gotten a similar degree of control by buying a couple of SMISA subscriptions and putting a couple of trustees up as candidates. The apathy amongst SMISA members means that even people the SMISA membership rejected in an election get positions on the SMISA and Club boards. 
I get the benefits. I can understand why it might seem attractive to guys who still have day jobs to go to and who have families to take care of to just hand over control to someone else. I'll watch out for the video - hopefully it will be available for all to watch and not just SMISA members. Expertise and capability were definitely needed to prop up an apparent lack of talent and competence on the SMISA committee. I'm just not convinced that selling off parts of the club operations to get Gordon Scott some money early was the best way to go about it. 
 
 

I see it as a win-win deal where both parties get benefits. We are not selling off St Mirren assets (office space or facilities) but working together to maximise and improve their use. The benefit to SMFC is the extra revenue will be made available for the manager to strengthen the team, for Kibble the get the benefit of having access to employment opportunities for their young people thus giving them wider exposure to real working environments. By financial investment they are demonstrating that they are committed to making the partnership work, in return have minority voice on the board. This is all explained in the video which I’m sure will answer all the questions people have.

You are correct in that “expertise and talent” that the likes of Kibble can provide are and will be required when full fan ownership is reached particularly to take us to the next level. This has always been a slight concern to me about fan ownership; once complete did the fans have the correct people with the right skills, experience and time to take the club forward? Who would I like to see provide that? A sugar daddy businessman who would want profit share/payback on any investment? A foreign partner with no particular local attachment to Paisley or St Mirren? Or a long standing, local charity with commercial know how (turnover £32M), large resources in terms of staff and facilities, with a sound ethical and moral values. If you were to hand pick a partner then you couldn’t to my mind chose a more appropriate one.

I attended last night and was 80% decided that the deal was right for the club. I now am totally convinced that it is and will vote that it is accepted. I cannot think of any downside only positives and hope that most people will see the same. Congratulations must go to all those involved at SMISA for the effort to date and to the board for the obvious work done to bring a well thought through proposal to the table.
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Can only agree with this. Everyone should watch the video and read the Q&A and come to an informed decision on how they want to vote. They convinced me last night so I'll vote for it


I see it as a win-win deal where both parties get benefits. We are not selling off St Mirren assets (office space or facilities) but working together to maximise and improve their use. The benefit to SMFC is the extra revenue will be made available for the manager to strengthen the team, for Kibble the get the benefit of having access to employment opportunities for their young people thus giving them wider exposure to real working environments. By financial investment they are demonstrating that they are committed to making the partnership work, in return have minority voice on the board. This is all explained in the video which I’m sure will answer all the questions people have.

You are correct in that “expertise and talent” that the likes of Kibble can provide are and will be required when full fan ownership is reached particularly to take us to the next level. This has always been a slight concern to me about fan ownership; once complete did the fans have the correct people with the right skills, experience and time to take the club forward? Who would I like to see provide that? A sugar daddy businessman who would want profit share/payback on any investment? A foreign partner with no particular local attachment to Paisley or St Mirren? Or a long standing, local charity with commercial know how (turnover £32M), large resources in terms of staff and facilities, with a sound ethical and moral values. If you were to hand pick a partner then you couldn’t to my mind chose a more appropriate one.

I attended last night and was 80% decided that the deal was right for the club. I now am totally convinced that it is and will vote that it is accepted. I cannot think of any downside only positives and hope that most people will see the same. Congratulations must go to all those involved at SMISA for the effort to date and to the board for the obvious work done to bring a well thought through proposal to the table.
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Oh and the point about selling off our operations. That's crap. Kibble will continue to pay for use. If someone wants use the facilities and is paying more. The people paying more will get preference. They used an example coming up where the police are using the dome instead of them because they are paying more.

But carry on the trolling. You know who you are. You've shown a level of commitment to it that would make Katie Hopkins teary eyed. I just don't understand what you get from it but whatever floats your boat.

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Sounds like the presentation went very well last night going be reaction I’ve read. Look forward to the video being published for everyone to see.

I’d love to think that the proposal, if it goes through, actually convinces more fans to join SMiSA.

I’d also hope that whatever way the vote goes, that the existing 1200 members stay committed and part of a project that has already done so much good for the club and in the local community.

The £2 spend on its own has been an absolutely brilliant initiative.

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