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Kibble/SMiSA Partnership Proposal (Merged)


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2 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

You said Toy Throwers... Plural.

Hypocrite

The number of contributors on here that are actively against this is not much higher than any previous £2 vote from what I can tell. Of that number, some have openly said they will go with the majority. That leaves a very small number of toy throwers (like yourself previously). 

Not referring to who you claimed I was. You were either spinning or could not understand a very simple comment. 

Edited by bazil85
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Aye jostling for the title of 'Mr Community' with Scott after he agreed with Scott issuing a STATEMENT to smisa members, warning them how to vote when a community option appeared on the £2 vote.
You couldnae make it up.
You don't have to make it up.

One is the gift that keeps giving... The other the gift that keeps taking!
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5 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

That doesn't really matter in terms of approval of the proposal depending on the voting system used.

They picked the system that suited their agenda. Do doubt about it.

The agenda where a majority vote carries which is in line with our constitution? Should they have picked one to suit your agenda instead? 🤣

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Guest TPAFKATS



I believe the definition of "elected" is to choose someone by means of voting. 
You are right he was the only candidate, but there was no vote.
The only election he took part in, he lost - won by David Nicol. By definition he was rejected by the membership that he is now supposed to represent. . 


That's a strange definition.
I'd say he was elected unopposed rather than rejected?
He stood against David Nicol first time around to ensure there was a vote.
Again, it's not his fault that no other member though it would be good to do same.
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The agenda where a majority vote carries which is in line with our constitution? Should they have picked one to suit your agenda instead? [emoji1787]
This is a fundamental change to the very agreement everyone signed up on.

It should have required an EGM which would have required, as per said constitution, a very different voting model.

But you knowing that isn't going to stop you playing the smart arse!

Glad you find it amusing.

Choose when to adhere to the constitution and when to ignore it. You sure you are not already on the SMISA board.

PS... That was a rhetorical question.

Please don't bore me with more of your brown nosed shite in response!
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3 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

This is a fundamental change to the very agreement everyone signed up on.

It should have required an EGM which would have required, as per said constitution, a very different voting model.

But you knowing that isn't going to stop you playing the smart arse!

Glad you find it amusing.

Choose when to adhere to the constitution and when to ignore it. You sure you are not already on the SMISA board.

PS... That was a rhetorical question.

Please don't bore me with more of your brown nosed shite in response!

Just sour grapes, very obvious. If a majority vote is good enough for governing our country, it's good enough for a fan ownership proposal. The constitution gives reasoning for when a different voting structure is needed and this ain't one. 

I don't choose when to adhere to it, I am happy with it and have no issue with adherence. I have an opinion on the matter for different scenarios of course. This is just something you don't like so you're crying over it being able to pass in a constitutional way. Poor wee lamb lol. 

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Is anyone really going to be "shell shocked" either way ? If it goes through it goes through, a majority have voted in favour likewise if it doesn't. Only 2 possible outcomes so I doubt anyone will be surprised never mind shell shocked either way. FWIW I still think the proposal will be voted through based purely on previous smisa voter apathy. I won't be concerned either way just need to abide by the majority decision. No need for toys out the pram over a democratic decision by anyone. Seems the non members are the ones in meltdown.

The big thing that I dont think Smisa thought through, and maybe Scott and Kibble dont care about is the fact, however this vote goes, it divides the smisa membership.
There are more than a few saying they are out if the vote doesn't go the way they think it should!
 
Think about that for a second, smisa have lit a fuse under their own future!
I think they are getting it now and are shell shocked how it might all turn out.
 
Once the genie is out the bottle....
 
 
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Is anyone really going to be "shell shocked" either way ? If it goes through it goes through, a majority have voted in favour likewise if it doesn't. Only 2 possible outcomes so I doubt anyone will be surprised never mind shell shocked either way. FWIW I still think the proposal will be voted through based purely on previous smisa voter apathy. I won't be concerned either way just need to abide by the majority decision. No need for toys out the pram over a democratic decision by anyone. Seems the non members are the ones in meltdown.
Well if you are happy with the membership being split, and how that plays out going forward, good luck trying to raise funds.
The damage being done, for the long planned sale to Kibble will affect the club and support permanently.
Ha,ha... I would if this will get the old Ref Brearley treatment in years to come. Mind you, we dodged Reg...
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5 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Well if you are happy with the membership being split, and how that plays out going forward, good luck trying to raise funds.
The damage being done, for the long planned sale to Kibble will affect the club and support permanently.
Ha,ha... I would if this will get the old Ref Brearley treatment in years to come. Mind you, we dodged Reg...

Let's not detract from the information these claims come from. 

"membership being split" I would say maybe 10-20 max regarding the SMISA members on here who have contributed with intent to vote no to the proposal on this forum over recent weeks. Even at that, some of that number have stated they'll go with the vote outcome. Based on previous SMISA votes, not even close to a representative number. As such I don't see any issue with "raising funds"

"The damage has been done" Similar to the counter to point one.

"Will affect the club and support permanently" How many times have we had claims like this from LPM over different aspects of BTB in recent years? Has it ever been right? 

Reg Bearley comparison - lol. 

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2 hours ago, Sonny said:

It is a legitimate question and gratuitous comments add nothing to the conversation.

While not decrying the effort currently being invested by SMiSA members on the BoD there appears to be a ceiling that has been reached by good intentioned, part-time volunteers who may not have the time, experience, interest and resources to take things much further. The current Board (as you point out are mostly SMiSA members) back the Kibble partnership. The SMiSA Committee also back the Kibble partnership.

To quote Colin Orr 'We strongly believe about delivering the best possible future for the Club and strongly believe this partnership will do that.'

And

'We have a partnership with someone who can be a vehicle to make the Club bigger and better than what it can be if it is just us on our own'. 

So again, has the current Board reached a limit to how much it can take the Club forward? SMiSA and the BoD seem to think so.

Not according to the main man Bazil they haven't,

He's stated that progress is being made every season since they took over,  while making a profit too,  And there's still plenty of scope for further growth and he doesn't see it slowing down,  

And yet still he's quite happy to bring on board a third party and lose total control of our club,  :huh:

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1 hour ago, Dickson said:

Sonny, I've posted already backing your position on this. But do you not think that it is the behaviour of the SMISA committee and the Chairman that have given rise to the situation by not previously opening themselves up to membership and community ideas and communication. 

I keep referring back to the Social Enterprise conference I attended way back but it was quite inspiring to listing the what many of them were doing. Each one of the enterprises chosen to present told of how they had to engage with the local community, listen to what they were telling them and to ensure they worked with them to deliver for the community. 

I could be mixing up speeches, but the one that I remember inspiring me most was the Atlantis Leisure Centre in Oban. They bought over loss making facilities from their local authority believing they could run it better. They did that by opening up to the community and telling them that if anyone had ideas for a sport, or classes that needed either the existing facilities, or for new facilities to be built or created they would back it 100% so long as it came with a credible plan. Since then they've been profitable, and they've expanded with a climbing wall, soft play areas, tennis courts, squash courts, a technogym, function halls - and they keep on going. 

Gordon Scott and SMISA have bought a club with a vastly under utilised set of facilities, and a fair bit of vacant land. It's obvious they don't know what to do with it and that they've decided they need Kibble to help them with ideas. But the irony is that there are many more community groups across Paisley and Renfrewshire who could have widened the field even further - all without the need for a veto and loss of 20% of the shares. If only they had been asked. 

I totally get your points Dickson. I am only highlighting that the current and potential owners appear to be at a limit and require further assistance if the Club is to expand and develop. Unfortunately the other boats have sailed and the current St Mirren Board and SMiSA Committee appear to be not interested in looking elsewhere. This leaves us the status quo where we just plod along surviving or go along with the only show in town. Of course SMiSA members could vote in a new Committee or instruct the current Committee to look elsewhere or instruct a re-negotiation with the proposal with Kibble. However considering the apathy of the members I do not really see that happening.

I too wholeheartedly back community involvement and further development of the facilities and more income to the Club. The question is how is that going to happen, assuming that the fans are even on board with that.

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1 minute ago, portmahomack saint said:

Not according to the main man Bazil they haven't,

He's stated that progress is being made every season since they took over,  while making a profit too,  And there's still plenty of scope for further growth and he doesn't see it slowing down,  

And yet still he's quite happy to bring on board a third party and lose total control of our club,  :huh:

Maybe you know who Bazil is and his position in these negotiations (if any). I do not.

I am only quoting from the official SMiSA spokesperson at the meeting. And SMiSA and the Board believe that the Club requires further collaboration to maximise resources and income.

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4 minutes ago, Sonny said:

Maybe you know who Bazil is and his position in these negotiations (if any). I do not.

I am only quoting from the official SMiSA spokesperson at the meeting. And SMiSA and the Board believe that the Club requires further collaboration to maximise resources and income.

I don't or anyone else on here for that matter

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Just now, portmahomack saint said:

I don't or anyone else on here for that matter

That is the problem PS. Arguments, discussions and questions are being answered by users who have no known association with the proposals and who may not be in a position to comment with any authority to elaborate and clarify.

All we have are the SMiSA Q&A and a recording of the open meeting for information. If anyone has actually asked a question of SMiSA, the BoD and KIbble I have yet to see an answer.

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27% is the magic number, or more specifically 25% - which allows a minority shareholder to block special resolutions. 

The legal agreement that you are voting on enhances the power of Kibble further than their shareholding would normally get them though - so that they can veto any "major decision" at the club. 

The 51% figure just means the majority of the shares are held by SMISA but the members of SMISA won't necessarily get to run the club in the way they want to. To cite an example - in 2012 Stewart Gilmour was convinced that it was in St Mirren FC Ltd's interests to keep a liquidated Rangers in the top flight of Scottish Football. He told us all that if Rangers weren't at least in the second tier St Mirren would most likely go into administration. In the end he was persuaded to vote to eject Rangers from the SPL, whilst remaining convinced that the club Chairmen in the SFL would put Rangers into the 2nd tier. They didn't and history has proved Gilmour wrong of course, but you must surely see how a third party might have voted in a different way at that SPL meeting 

 

It would have been impossible to keep a liquidated Rangers in the top flight because, by definition, they went into liquidation!

 

Gilmour also didn’t vote to eject Rangers from the top flight. He couldn’t - they went into liquidation. What he did was vote against a new club, Sevco, from joining the top flight.

 

[emoji12]

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51 minutes ago, Sonny said:

That is the problem PS. Arguments, discussions and questions are being answered by users who have no known association with the proposals and who may not be in a position to comment with any authority to elaborate and clarify.

All we have are the SMiSA Q&A and a recording of the open meeting for information. If anyone has actually asked a question of SMiSA, the BoD and KIbble I have yet to see an answer.

I asked a question via the Smisa website and got a prompt and detailed response .  I would encourage others to give it a go.  

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1 hour ago, portmahomack saint said:

Not according to the main man Bazil they haven't,

He's stated that progress is being made every season since they took over,  while making a profit too,  And there's still plenty of scope for further growth and he doesn't see it slowing down,  

And yet still he's quite happy to bring on board a third party and lose total control of our club,  :huh:

I think this third party will contribute to the growth of our club. 
 

we are not losing total control of our club, people are blowing up a situation that can exists with any 25%+ shareholding. It’s tinfoil hat stuff from the usual suspects. 

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Just sour grapes, very obvious. If a majority vote is good enough for governing our country, it's good enough for a fan ownership proposal. The constitution gives reasoning for when a different voting structure is needed and this ain't one. 
I don't choose when to adhere to it, I am happy with it and have no issue with adherence. I have an opinion on the matter for different scenarios of course. This is just something you don't like so you're crying over it being able to pass in a constitutional way. Poor wee lamb lol. 
Good enough for ruling the country.

Good enough for a major variation on a proposal sold to over 1,200 people.

NOT good enough for a proposals to a minor amendment on how to use the £2 pot.

YOU HYPOCRITE!

I SMELL SHITE!

You must smell it all the more with your nose up arses that often.

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1 minute ago, BuddieinEK said:

Good enough for ruling the country.

Good enough for a major variation on a proposal sold to over 1,200 people.

NOT good enough for a proposals to a minor amendment on how to use the £2 pot.

YOU HYPOCRITE!

I SMELL SHITE!

You must smell it all the more with your nose up arses that often.
 

You yet again need to spin things to try and have a go don’t you? What desperation. As I have very clearly said, I would have supported that being a majority vote, however the constitution calls it out the way it calls it out.
I do understand the reasoning behind it being more than a majority though. given how little interest it generated, there was the risk of it sneaking through with a very small number of voting members if it was a majority only. I am on record with this consistent view, no luck again buddie. 

Again sorry state where any support for our chairman comes out with this view. oh to be so miserable 😂

 

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10 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

I meant the division all members will experience regardless of how they vote. Sorry if that wasnt clear.
I left smisa, but still saw it as the only way to secure fan ownership, and never suggested anyone else should leave.
It is distressing the division that has now be sown, to facilitate one members profit, and give an organisation who have been trying to get their foot in the door for years, free reign.
On a more partisan note!
What bit of Kibble paying £300k to be able to run their programmes and take the fee for their clients they deal, with from local authorities across the UK, and stick it in Kibble's bank do some not get?
Anything Kibble do that makes money, Kibble will keep, its not going to the club community or smisa... it's going into Kibble's bulging bank account.

What Division Most of the people who are posting on here, such as you, who are against the idea are not even SMISA members. 

The Kibble debate and the fall out from some pros and against has proven that Fans Ownership is fraught with division. Some people, such as you, would start a campaign because you were not consulted on the colour of the toilet paper that was selected. Others will maybe not agree with the points put forward, however will accept the democratic majority decision and move on

Selling shares for what you bought them for is not generating or facilitating anyone profit. 

The delusion that  the Kibble who have existed for 180 years are plotting to take over the club with their 27% is way beyond shit stirring of the highest level.

Rather than hiding behind your continual innuendo why don’t you ask proper relevant questions.

Question 1 - What mechanism is in place In the interim period to stop the Kibble and GLS (combined 51%+) amending the BTB agreement further without SMISA input

Edited by Brilliant Disguise
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7 hours ago, Sonny said:

Another question is can a fans' group - the majority of whom are not interested, do not attend meeting, nor vote, and could only find one (inexperienced) volunteer to put their name forward for the Board at the last election - run a football club?

Sonny you hit the nail on the head. The continual debacle that goes on with the same 3-4 people on every £2 vote and the kibble bid proves that Fans Ownership is a potential disaster in the making. It has proven that for Fans Ownership needs help from an outside experienced party capable of running a business and making decisions for the good of a business.

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What Division Most of the people who are posting on here, such as you, who are against the idea are not even SMISA members.  The Kibble debate and the fall out from some pros and against has proven that Fans Ownership is fraught with division. Some people, such as you, would start a campaign because you were not consulted on the colour of the toilet paper that was selected. Others will maybe not agree with the points put forward, however will accept the democratic majority decision and move on

Selling shares for what you bought them for is not generating or facilitating anyone profit. 

The delusion that  the Kibble who have existed for 180 years are plotting to take over the club with their 27% is way beyond shit stirring of the highest level.

Rather than hiding behind your continual innuendo why don’t you ask proper relevant questions.

Question 1 - What mechanism is in place In the interim period to stop the Kibble and GLS (combined 51%+) amending the BTB agreement further without SMISA input

 

Answer - Nothing!Hence where we are now having thought there was a cast iron deal to buy 71 % shareholding in the club, only to find those making the promise cast it in shit!

Forgot to add... welcome Smisa/ Div

 

 

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33 minutes ago, saint since 62 said:

I asked a question via the Smisa website and got a prompt and detailed response .  I would encourage others to give it a go.  

Well done SS62. I hope others follow your lead and ask questions of the people that are directly involved and can answer with some authority and not speculation.

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