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Lord Pityme

Kibble/SMiSA Partnership Proposal (Merged)

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This is one of the most bizarre responses to this point, it’s came up several times. Is there actually a belief that the Kibble can’t add value to use at the stadium with their contacts, reach and reputation?
 
No BOD at St Mirren to date has seen it as beneficial to set up some of the activities at the stadium that have been discussed for a long time. Are they all just wrong and the fans asking for it are right? It’s a strange one, the risk attached to say opening a coffee shop or developing the stadium to allow for office space is definitely a lot higher than Kibble voting down a SMISA elected director or a major sponsor deal. How many coffee chips have went under and how much office space sits empty in Paisley? 
 
They may want/ need to recoup it but it wouldn’t make sense to do it at the harm of SMFC. Our futures would be bound. a strong SMFC would be good for the Kibble and vic Versa. The cash is also not massive in comparison to their turnover. An investment worth taking, in their opinion anyway. 
So in addition to spending 300k on shares kibble are going to shoulder the set up costs of building and fitting out a coffee shop, office space or whatever else is in the pipeline.
Great! If only these details had been made clear earlier...

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4 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

So in addition to spending 300k on shares kibble are going to shoulder the set up costs of building and fitting out a coffee shop, office space or whatever else is in the pipeline.
Great! If only these details had been made clear earlier...

No, that’s not what I said. 

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No, that’s not what I said. 
So SMFC are paying the set up costs of these initiatives that you say the current and previous boards decided weren't viable?
Either SMFC pay or kibble pays?

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3 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

So SMFC are paying the set up costs of these initiatives that you say the current and previous boards decided weren't viable?
Either SMFC pay or kibble pays?

The benefit isn’t in them necessarily funding it. It’s in their contacts, suppliers, reach, influence and their very nature as a successful charity. 

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Maybe it will come out of the playing budget or SMISA members can pay for it with their £2 per month. 
Seriously, if kibble were paying its a great deal for SMFC.
If SMFC are paying for it then it's no better than what was previously rejected as it still has the associated risks and costs.

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I watched the Q&A session last week and it answered some questions but was still a bit vague on detail IMO. 

One thing I’d like to know is will whether Kibble will pay the market rate for any additional (new) services they take from the club? 

They stated that they spend approx. £50k p.a. to SMFC and seemed to state that would continue. Which at face value is a positive. 

I’d like assurances that they can’t/won’t benefit from cheap shirt sponsorship, stadium naming rights, facilities, etc. And what safeguards are in place to ensure that the club is getting best value commercially? Is this covered anywhere? 

 

Edited by Maboza

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3 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

Seriously, if kibble were paying its a great deal for SMFC.
If SMFC are paying for it then it's no better than what was previously rejected as it still has the associated risks and costs.

So you’re saying there is no additional benefit in the Kibble being involved in these projects? You seriously don’t think their expertise, suppliers and reach would impact the success one bit? Sorry but that is absolutely bizarre. 

Edited by bazil85

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The benefit isn’t in them necessarily funding it. It’s in their contacts, suppliers, reach, influence and their very nature as a successful charity. 
OK so SMFC fund a coffee shop and office space and benefit from kibble's contacts reach and influence and their very nature as a successful charity. What does that even mean.
I can see they may get a better deal from suppliers, they can staff it with low or no cost wages. The rest is nonsense unless they can get footfall into coffee shops and lease out office space through their contacts.

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6 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

OK so SMFC fund a coffee shop and office space and benefit from kibble's contacts reach and influence and their very nature as a successful charity. What does that even mean.
I can see they may get a better deal from suppliers, they can staff it with low or no cost wages. The rest is nonsense unless they can get footfall into coffee shops and lease out office space through their contacts.

better deals from suppliers and staffing both reduce the risk from us doing it alone. You’ve pretty much addressed your own point. 
 

Have a wee think about footfall. if the stadium active use time is increased by the Kibble, running projects and initiatives out of it... Do you think having more people more regularly at the stadium might help with footfall? Probably, since that’s literally what it is 😂
 

The office space one is a bit more difficult, was more just an example of options. Personally it’s not something I would think would be a day 1 job given the amount of competition. But down the line basing potentially some of the Kibbles/ associated companies admin at the stadium could generate an income... oh and footfall. 

Edited by bazil85

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So you’re saying there is no additional benefit in the Kibble being involved in these projects? You seriously don’t think their expertise, suppliers and reach would impact the success one bit? Sorry but that is absolutely bizarre. 
It's not bizarre.
None of this has been fleshed out despite being a year in the planning.

These words - expertise, suppliers, reach, successful charity don't mean anything without explaining how it will work in the context of benefiting St. Mirren.

Repeating it as you have in these posts just makes it a glib meaningless soundbite.
Its getting up there with "brexit means brexit "

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1 minute ago, TPAFKATS said:

It's not bizarre.
None of this has been fleshed out despite being a year in the planning.

These words - expertise, suppliers, reach, successful charity don't mean anything without explaining how it will work in the context of benefiting St. Mirren.

Repeating it as you have in these posts just makes it a glib meaningless soundbite.
Its getting up there with "brexit means brexit "

Well we have several very successful business people that think this deal can work greatly for St Mirren & Kibble. I’ve made my mind up based on them and the provided information. If you don’t think having the stadium/ training facilities in much more active use opens up new profit making opportunity, that’s fine. 

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better deals from suppliers and staffing both reduce the risk from us doing it alone. You’ve pretty much addressed your own point. 
 
Have a wee think about footfall. if the stadium active use time is increased by the Kibble, running projects and initiatives out of it... Do you think having more people more regularly at the stadium might help with footfall? Probably, since that’s literally what it is
 
The office space one is a bit more difficult, was more just an example of options. Personally it’s not something I would think would be a day 1 job given the amount of competition. But down the line basing potentially some of the Kibbles/ associated companies admin at the stadium could generate an income... oh and footfall. 


better deals from suppliers and staffing both reduce the risk from us doing it alone. You’ve pretty much addressed your own point. 
 
Have a wee think about footfall. if the stadium active use time is increased by the Kibble, running projects and initiatives out of it... Do you think having more people more regularly at the stadium might help with footfall? Probably, since that’s literally what it is
 
The office space one is a bit more difficult, was more just an example of options. Personally it’s not something I would think would be a day 1 job given the amount of competition. But down the line basing potentially some of the Kibbles/ associated companies admin at the stadium could generate an income... oh and footfall. 


OK so we are building a coffee shop and letting kibble run it as they can get better deals from suppliers than Costa or any other large company or franchise.
I understand the wages part however, again kibble could place staff with any local company.
Footfall? Instead of smfc catering an event we are going to hope attendees leave the main stand corporate area and go to the seperate coffee shop.


I'm surprised kilmarnock haven't tried these approaches with their hotel.

Office space should be very far down the line because there's not exactly a shortage of existing office space in Paisley.

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Well we have several very successful business people that think this deal can work greatly for St Mirren & Kibble. I’ve made my mind up based on them and the provided information. If you don’t think having the stadium/ training facilities in much more active use opens up new profit making opportunity, that’s fine. 

What very successful business people? The same ones who haven't managed to see any new profit making opportunities in the current set up?

 

They haven't provided the information despite negotiating it for a year. We are expected to go on "this is a great deal" and a wee nugget of 500 pounds a week saving on food.

 

Here's another question. If we start opening our facilities outwith office hours and are staffing with free labour from kibble are the fans and membership happy with that?

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Erm, actually it doesn't. 
Many moons ago I pointed out that SMISA could have set up a coffee shop for free - including the training and recruitment of staff. I think LPM highlighted similar. If they so wished they wouldn't even have needed to pay for the coffee machine and the mugs. 
Yes but you did that because you hate GLS and St Mirren and were luring them into a trap.

Why should we trust you? In Kibble we trust!

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If SMFC paid for it and ran it, it would have to turn a profit. If SMFC pay for it and have a guaranteed tenant (Kibble), then SMFC would be getting rent and Kibble could run it at break even. So, not the same risks and costs for SMFC. I am obviously assuming that Kibble would pay rent, I can't see why they wouldn't.
 
Yes it's the assumption that's the problem. 1 day of voting left and we are still working on assumptions.

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I agree with you. But has anyone asked?
No sure. There's a lack of answers all round.
The q and a presentation was a good example.
There was one went the lines of
Q "why are kibble buying 27% of shares?"
A "to get influence which will protect our investment"

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The only example we've got that I can see was that Kibble were going to cook for the St Mirren players, but that St Mirren FC Ltd would buy the food. Scott said it currently cost £1000 per week but doing it this way it would cost £500 per week. 
To make a big assumption but if everything else is being done under the same premise then I would imagine that the labour will be provided by Kibble, and the materials would be purchased by SMFC or SMISA or both. 
I said this a while back but I suspect what is behind this Ralston thing is that Kibble will make breakfast and lunch for the players. The players then go home and Kibble continue to run the facilities either to fulfill some catering contract that they have, or more likely to sell food and drink to the young players and their parents who attend the academy of an evening where any profit would go straight to Kibble. 
I also suspect that we would see lots of similar small social enterprises springing up at the stadium where they are driving footfall. I think in some ways this was backed up by something Jim Gillespie said at the meeting where he talked about using facilities like the dome, but being happy to move or cancel their booking for something that was willing to pay the club more to use the same facilities. He talked about the police wanting to use the dome. 
Now just to be clear I wouldn't be against any of that happening - even if Kibble didn't have to pay a rent for the facilities. It would simply be a case of Kibble exploiting a market and facilities that St Mirren didn't want to go after for whatever reason. There might be a few people around St Mirren and SMISA that might kick themselves when they see the opportunities they missed but the advantage to St Mirren would be little improvements to their home at cost price. Where my problem with the whole thing is - why the need for them to become minority shareholders at a cost of £300k rather than using legally binding contracts? And why are SMISA so happy to give away control of the club?
 
Sadly, we won't know the answers to that last paragraph till it is too late to do anything about it.

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If SMFC paid for it and ran it, it would have to turn a profit. If SMFC pay for it and have a guaranteed tenant (Kibble), then SMFC would be getting rent and Kibble could run it at break even. So, not the same risks and costs for SMFC. I am obviously assuming that Kibble would pay rent, I can't see why they wouldn't.

 

Ahhh!

So Kibble will be taking any profit from these ventures as they fitted it out, staffed it and ran it.

 

Hello.... anyone still unsure why they are paying £300k for worthless shares?

 

Simply because they can make money from all the initiatives that the club were too lazy or lacked any basic skill to develop.

 

Edit: I dont blame Kibbke at all! It's a great no-brainer opportunity For Them!

Hell if I got the option I would sink the funds in to develop those business opportunities, and happily pay a fair rent as it is ripe for development.

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9 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

 

 

 


OK so we are building a coffee shop and letting kibble run it as they can get better deals from suppliers than Costa or any other large company or franchise.
I understand the wages part however, again kibble could place staff with any local company.
Footfall? Instead of smfc catering an event we are going to hope attendees leave the main stand corporate area and go to the seperate coffee shop.


I'm surprised kilmarnock haven't tried these approaches with their hotel.

Office space should be very far down the line because there's not exactly a shortage of existing office space in Paisley.

 

 

 

I think you’re either over simplifying the potential for such proposals or not understanding. 

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9 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

What very successful business people? The same ones who haven't managed to see any new profit making opportunities in the current set up?

This just isn’t true. Not only have they taken the club from near league 1 football to the SP and the additional income involved, other initiatives like Buddievision and more investment in children’s entertainment will have long term benefits. From GLS to those at the Kibble, there is no shortage of success in business (and charity work) onboard  

They haven't provided the information despite negotiating it for a year. We are expected to go on "this is a great deal" and a wee nugget of 500 pounds a week saving on food.

I disagree, I think the idea and the proposals are enough to explore this option as the best for St Mirren football club. Human nature though that some will need more info than others. 

Here's another question. If we start opening our facilities outwith office hours and are staffing with free labour from kibble are the fans and membership happy with that?


Again I think there’s a tiny bit of oversimplifying here and ignoring some of the great opportunities it would present for the people the Kibble support. But to answer your question, yes I would be happy with a suitable model that made use of work experience schemes for example  

 

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9 hours ago, Dickson said:

Erm, actually it doesn't. 

Many moons ago I pointed out that SMISA could have set up a coffee shop for free - including the training and recruitment of staff. I think LPM highlighted similar. If they so wished they wouldn't even have needed to pay for the coffee machine and the mugs. 

It’s a naive man that thinks they can present an off the cuff business proposal and it will be completely fool proof for ever more. A long term shareholding relationship with the Kibble could very realistically lower supplier and other related costs in several initiatives. You’re on record saying that you agree with many parts of this deal on the benefit they could bring. Have you went 180 on that as well? 

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