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Kibble/SMiSA Partnership Proposal (Merged)


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1 minute ago, BuddieinEK said:
2 minutes ago, bazil85 said:
I quite enjoy getting the last word, self admitted. You do as well, just can’t admit it. 

Last word on the subject?

If you need it that much take it. Like I say I enjoy it but only because I enjoy this part of BAWA. People will make false allegations that I claim it as some sort of victory, won’t find any sign of that. But I’m happy to give a last word if someone like yourself so desperately craves it. 

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If you need it that much take it. Like I say I enjoy it but only because I enjoy this part of BAWA. People will make false allegations that I claim it as some sort of victory, won’t find any sign of that. But I’m happy to give a last word if someone like yourself so desperately craves it. 
Ok thanks.. just this once, I'll take it.
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8 hours ago, sally02 said:

The Veto

I think that a lot of people have taken a fairly basic view of the fact that Kibble would be able to Veto any major decisions relating to SMFC Ltd, as they would be 27.5% shareholders in the company. Obviously if you invest in a business to the proposed level, you would want as much influence as possible to protect your investment.

My take on the reality of the eventual working of this would be that SMISA with 51% of the shareholding and majority fan ownership would have a complete right to Veto any proposals and plans as they saw fit and proper, with no real recourse for Kibble to challenge or object.  On the other hand, if Kibble vetoed a proposal or plan put forward by the board majority, and the SMISA members and the rest of the fanbase were not happy with Kibble's position, in that situation I am sure the case would make the public domain and the press would no doubt put their various twists and slants on it, which leaves Kibble open to scrutiny, questions regarding their overall motives in the partnership, and potential damage to their reputation. Was their veto for their own benefit only, for the mutual benefit of both partners, etc etc ? Kibble will be very aware of this.

If the boot was on the other foot, I don't think SMISA would be under scrutiny in that way, as in general, Football Clubs and their Boards are perceived as only one event away from a crisis and often weekly managed anyway - certainly the case in Scotland!

So I would suggest that the veto is not as powerful a tool to Kibble as you might first think - it has its dangers for them as well as SMISA. 

 

7 hours ago, Dickson said:

If that is your rational then it's bonkers. Seriously did you read what you wrote? Better than you did, for sure!

Currently SMISA are heading for 7!% share ownership. We were all sold this as a great idea that secured the future of the club forever. When the deal is concluded the club would be under the control of SMISA members who can do pretty much as they wish. Did I say otherwise? I was only putting a scenario out there that may happen!

You are voting to reduce that shareholding to 51%. I HAVEN'T VOTED EITHER WAY YET, unless you illegally voted for me.

If that is carried a third party will hold 27% and won't just have the protection afforded in law to any minority shareholder with a 25% shareholding.(to veto any Special Resolutions) but enhanced powers to veto "any major decision". And you are going to rely on Chick Young and his pals to be interested enough, and to understand it enough to stop this third party using their veto for anything. All I said is Kibble would be more likely to be scrutinised for using a veto than SMISA/Board!

I absolutely understand your other post with concerns about the ability of the SMISA membership to run a football club. If you'd stopped there then fair enough. You voted yes cause you want competent leadership. Again I haven't voted either way yet, oh condescending one!

Fine, great.

What I don't quite get is why you were so desperate to prove the point that the SMISA membership couldn't run a football club by showing you personally couldn't be trusted to work through the issue logically and to vote in a manner that made any sense.  This is all made up in your head, mate!

 

 

You really are a piece of work! Just reply to the voices in your head, because I'm not really interested in what you think!

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9 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:
12 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:
Choices. 
1. No Kibble deal. 
Outcome... Slower growth
Greater Fan Control
2. Kibble deal
Outcome.. Much faster growth.
Fan controlled but with a brake. 

2... Kibble are part owners of St Mirren fc. Fan ownership?

BEK. If the deal does not get approval then slower growth is likely but with SMISA exercising full control. 

If the deal goes through then the likelihood is faster growth, faster community involvement and improved PR and Marketing. The price for SMISA would be accepting that they would not have full control and would have to share power including the risk of veto. 

Up to the members now. 

Edited by St.Ricky
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BEK. If the deal does not get approval then slower growth is likely but with SMISA exercising full control. 
If the deal goes through then the likelihood is faster growth, faster community involvement and improved PR and Marketing. The price for SMISA would be accepting that they would not have full control and would have to share power including the risk of veto. 
Up to the members now. 
If the deal is approved... Which I believe it will be... Kibble will be part owners of St Mirren.

"they need a degree of influence over that investment, which only a shareholding will give."

Remember that quote from SMISA.

People were warned!
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17 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

BEK. If the deal does not get approval then slower growth is likely but with SMISA exercising full control. 

If the deal goes through then the likelihood is faster growth, faster community involvement and improved PR and Marketing. The price for SMISA would be accepting that they would not have full control and would have to share power including the risk of veto. 

Up to the members now. 

If the deal does not go through, it will be growth on precisely the same timeframe that buddies signed up for.

 

NOT SLOWER growth, at all.

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I'm not going to pretend I know anything about what has been going at any meetings. I'm not going to pretend I understand the complexities of business. I am just a fan of SMFC who wanted to help get my club in to fan ownership. I voted no because I feel misled.

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3 hours ago, Dickson said:

Ricky. 

Why would that need to be the case? 

Let's for a moment assume that everything we have been told is correct. SMiSA and Gordon Scott think that having a partnership with Kibble is a great thing that will see growth at the club, and Kibble have seen an opportunity to get involved with the club to use the clubs facilities to train their kids for the working environment. What is there to stop that from happening without the share purchase and the veto? 

Why would Kibble need to spend £300k on shares that they themselves see as so worthless they might even give them away to SMISA? Why would Kibble need the power of a veto over the SMISA board? And why would SMISA feel the need to give up the strong position at the club they all support, in order to give a third party a veto over every major decision they make? Is Gordon Scott really so desperate for the £300k right now that he would want to see control of his boyhood club given to a third party? 

Surely if the deal is rejected there would still be scope for a less invasive partnership with Kibble on terms that would sit better with the clubs support? 

And if there isn't then I think it would be quite clear that St Mirren have dodged a bullet. 

 

 

It doesn't have to be Stuart. It's my judgement that it would be. I've given reasons in two earlier posts. 

This doesn't mean that I am recommending acceptance of the deal to members. And you are right, alternative approaches could be found. Im merely pointing out what I believe. 

I have avoided taking sides since I am not and have not been a SMISA member.   I can understand members who joined on the basis that they would almost solely control the club feeling that this is a big change in direction. It is. It also has an opportunity for collaboration and potentially faster growth. 

Over to the members. 

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9 hours ago, bazil85 said:

I definitely think it’s been blown up but it’s very much a matter of perspective & understand the concerns. A major shareholder having a say in major decisions isn’t an issue for me. Yes there’s risk attached but I personally see it as minimal and much much more likely SMFC & Kibble will be pulling in the same direction. 
 

follow on from that to your next point, personally don’t think it’s so much but appreciate some will. I even wouldn’t call it surrendering TBH. 
 

and as I have said before, risks are always within the realms of possibility with any deal. Fans looking for a deal with zero risk will be looking for a very long time. 

But they won't JUST have a say. They will have control by way of a veto. That is disproportionate to the size of the shareholding.

A major shareholder is not THE major shareholder. 

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Do you think he'll let you? As soon as you disagree with him about something else he will claim you are bringing up the same argument again. 
Oh dear... Slarti/Baz whatever calls himself is becoming detached.... or?
Just upping the shit stirring to bring some joy into his life?

Maybe we should have a vote on that?
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Will Sevco fans be able to call us a 'new' club? If the proposal is voted through.

Well... clear of debt, fully fan owned.

Hearts... fully fan owned

Smfc... being split up and sold to Kibble...

 

Way to go on the fan ownership front. If there is a drop off in smisa membership a result of this wedge they've driven through it, who do you think is going to make up the shortfall in exchange for greater control?

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9 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

Why would it be?

 

Just so you are aware, "people like Baz" included you, don't get upset, I wouldn't want you to think I wasn't including you in the discussion. I thought it was obvious seeing as the two of you are so alike.

 

So, for all you know (even though it's highly unlikely), the questions could have been along the lines of "what size is your penis" and "does your wife like anal"?

 

You're entitled to your opinion, even if it is wrong.

It’s not though  

You're funny. Did you not claim that you proved BiEK (maybe it was someone else) wrong about various things while arguing about something else long after he had stopped replying to you on those various other things?

Nope BEK pretty much begged to stop engaging with me, I gave him his wish. He came back to responding to my comments not so long later (and before that responding to others I was having a conversation with). I have pointed out his falsehoods in the past, I have never claimed victory in a last word  

Do you think he'll let you? As soon as you disagree with him about something else he will claim you are bringing up the same argument again.

 

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2 hours ago, stlucifer said:

But they won't JUST have a say. They will have control by way of a veto. That is disproportionate to the size of the shareholding.

A major shareholder is not THE major shareholder. 

The particular poster that has been leading this point has achieved exactly what he wanted (all be it with a very small number of contributors) what I would suggest to you is to do some scenario analysis. Envision some scenarios where the Kibble veto could be detrimental for St Mirren yet beneficial for them. Then determine how likely you think that scenario is. 
 

Before you do that though I would maybe evaluate your understanding. They will not have control to force through major decisions, only a veto. A 51% shareholder has control to stop any decision by nature of their holding. 
 

don’t mean for any of that to sound condescending by the way, just clarifying for you. 

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16 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

 

Will Sevco fans be able to call us a 'new' club? If the proposal is voted through.

Well... clear of debt, fully fan owned.

Hearts... fully fan owned

Smfc... being split up and sold to Kibble...

 

Way to go on the fan ownership front. If there is a drop off in smisa membership a result of this wedge they've driven through it, who do you think is going to make up the shortfall in exchange for greater control?

 

Lol imagine being this raging.

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The meltdown on here over the kibble buy in probably shows it's a good thing that people with a reasonable amount of business acumen are getting involved. Imagine a fully owned smisa led club. Every decision would be torn to pieces, infighting galore, it would be impossible to get anything done. Hopefully there is a silent majority going to vote this through.
I think this period has shown me I'm more fearful of 100% fan ownership than 51% with a major partner.

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The meltdown on here over the kibble buy in probably shows it's a good thing that people with a reasonable amount of business acumen are getting involved. Imagine a fully owned smisa led club. Every decision would be torn to pieces, infighting galore, it would be impossible to get anything done. Hopefully there is a silent majority going to vote this through.
I think this period has shown me I'm more fearful of 100% fan ownership than 51% with a major partner.


Really?
Then why did Scott & Smisa tell the world that the only show in town was full fan ownership?
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14 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Really?
Then why did Scott & Smisa tell the world that the only show in town was full fan ownership?

Trolling/ breakdowns/ desperation whatever anyone wants to call it, it’s pretty transparent after all these years. Polar opposite views over less time than it takes to read a SMISA statement means the mask has completely slipped.

The wish for mass (prediction?) drop off in SMISA members is far from new and has been completely unfounded/ baseless to date. Wee new club jabs, claims that the club will be further split up to under majority fan ownership, wishing for community asset stripping to be even remotely true in this deal. All sings of a powerless, desperate for attention man.

Don’t feed the troll they say… How can we not when it causes such hilarious rage? 

Edited by bazil85
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7 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:


 

 

 


Aw, is the wee flower so upset to be compared to Baz that he's got to use almost the same patter back? It's like Bart Simpson's "I know you are, but what am I" line. I'm obviously (well obviously to any right thinking person) not Baz, but he can't escape from the fact that he and Baz are almost clones, must be so upsetting for the we delicate petal.

Anyway, not answering any of the questions yet? I'm not surprised.




1. You are.

2. That fitted in well with the bit below it. emoji38.png

 

 

Now now, you both can't be as awesome as me, stop fighting over it. 

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