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So Farewell Then SNP'S Derek Mackay

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In Scotland, you can join the Army and get yourself killed at 16, you can choose to get married at 16 and have sex at with older people at 16.  Scottish society has endorsed that age of 16 being the benchmark of the move from childhood into maturity for a very long time.
MacKay may well be an utter arse (he IS.)
He may well have demonstrated that he is not bright enough for public office by his less than sophisticated reasoning about what might be a sensible course of action for a man in his position to take wrt this young man.
Perhaps a majority of people would consider his actions to have been sleazy rather than simply stupid, but as far as I can make out, he has done nothing that goes  against the laws of Scotland.
There's a shitload of hypocrisy going down here...
 


I don't think anyone has said he broke the law although apparently police Scotland are looking into it.

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3 minutes ago, antrin said:

In Scotland, you can join the Army and get yourself killed at 16, you can choose to get married at 16 and have sex at with older people at 16.  Scottish society has endorsed that age of 16 being the benchmark of the move from childhood into maturity for a very long time.

MacKay may well be an utter arse (he IS.)

He may well have demonstrated that he is not bright enough for public office by his less than sophisticated reasoning about what might be a sensible course of action for a man in his position to take wrt this young man.

Perhaps a majority of people would consider his actions to have been sleazy rather than simply stupid, but as far asI can make out, he has done nothing that goes  against the laws of Scotland.

There's a shitload of hypocrisy going down here...

 

My point was essentially that either the age of consent is too low or one should accept that someone age 65 can sleep with a sixteen year old.

I also agree that assuming MacKay hasn't used his position to coerce the sixteen year old or harassed him, then, aye, he has done nothing illegal.

2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

There is no "rule". What on earth are you and TPAK thingy wittering on about? :lol:

Too many people in this country with too much to say about too many people.

Nobody has the right to judge people in legal relationships involving two fully consenting adults.

It's considered good social etiquette.

People can and do judge other people all the time, unfortunately. Also you used the term 'adults' which isn't strictly true in this case, as the boy was sixteen. 

Just so there's no ambiguity, I agree with you that people should respect the law and leave the law abiding to get on with their lives free of harassment. My point earlier was whether the law is correct, or should the age of consent be raised?

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There is no "rule". What on earth are you and TPAK thingy wittering on about? 
Too many people in this country with too much to say about too many people.
Nobody has the right to judge people in legal relationships involving two fully consenting adults.

What are you wittering on about?
They weren't in a relationship, I do however reserve the right to judge any 42yo who wants to enter into a relationship with a 16yo.

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9 minutes ago, W6er said:

 

It's considered good social etiquette.

People can and do judge other people all the time, unfortunately. Also you used the term 'adults' which isn't strictly true in this case, as the boy was sixteen. 

Just so there's no ambiguity, I agree with you that people should respect the law and leave the law abiding to get on with their lives free of harassment. My point earlier was whether the law is correct, or should the age of consent be raised?

Good social etiquette? What on earth are you talking about?

At 16 people really are adults. More "proper" adults would do well to respect that a bit more. The fact that we have a cultural obsession with infantilising people under 18 is a different issue.

It's not the age of the 16 year old which is a concern in this case. It's the transcript of the messages which shows that McKay was clearly harassing and working on the guy over a period of months. The 16 year old wasn't responding to any of the advances but McKay ignored that and carried on anyway. It's the pestering which is the issue and this is true of so many men in society that it needs challenging.

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13 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:


 


What are you wittering on about?
They weren't in a relationship, I do however reserve the right to judge any 42yo who wants to enter into a relationship with a 16yo.

I was talking about you judging a 51 year old and a 25 year old. That's why I only copied that part of your post.

Would be nice if you were able to keep up with a conversation now and then. :rolleyes:

Oh and you "reserve the right" do you? Away and gies us peace FFS. :lol:

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10 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Good social etiquette? What on earth are you talking about?

At 16 people really are adults. More "proper" adults would do well to respect that a bit more. The fact that we have a cultural obsession with infantilising people under 18 is a different issue.

It's not the age of the 16 year old which is a concern in this case. It's the transcript of the messages which shows that McKay was clearly harassing and working on the guy over a period of months. The 16 year old wasn't responding to any of the advances but McKay ignored that and carried on anyway. It's the pestering which is the issue and this is true of so many men in society that it needs challenging.

It's not illegal to fart in a crowded restaurant, but it's not acceptable behaviour. Like it or not, and you clearly do not, but people will disapprove of a sexual relationship between a 42 year old and a 16 year old. 

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33 minutes ago, W6er said:

Just so there's no ambiguity, I agree with you that people should respect the law and leave the law abiding to get on with their lives free of harassment. My point earlier was whether the law is correct, or should the age of consent be raised?

Are people suddenly maturing a lot later nowadays than they have done for centuries?  

Maybe you’re right and Scots shouldn’t go to war till they’re much older, say 21?  And Scots can elope to just south of the border from Gretna to get married “young”.

The age of consent is fine.

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1 hour ago, W6er said:

Aye, there's some sort of rule - I think you half your age and add eight. Though, I've always gone for older women - I have had girlfriends eight, ten and thirteen years older than me! 

I prefer the burds in their late 20s/early 30s to those in their early 20s. Generally more mature and the sex is better too.

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Just now, antrin said:

Are people suddenly maturing a lot later nowadays than they have done for centuries?  

Maybe you’re right and Scots shouldn’t go to war till they’re much older, say 21?  And Scots can elope to just south of the border from Gretna to get married “young”.

The age of consent is fine.

In your opinion.

I actually do not care, to be honest. Going by the comments here and offline, I'd suggest the consensus is that the age of consent is too low. 

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You obviously DO care! 
you asked a question, then reject a perfectly valid answer.

 

just because your experience meant you didn’t “mature” till much, much later than 16, it might not ( it DOESN’T) hold true for most folk who are horny from their early teens.

 

but... like you.... I don’t care either😭

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7 minutes ago, antrin said:

You obviously DO care! 
you asked a question, then reject a perfectly valid answer.

 

just because your experience meant you didn’t “mature” till much, much later than 16, it might not ( it DOESN’T) hold true for most folk who are horny from their early teens.

 

but... like you.... I don’t care either😭

LOL I actually don't care! I suppose that does make me a sad b***ard really, as pfffffff my evening has gone...spent debating a subject I care nothing about with complete strangers. But then I also spend my time counting the tickets we've sold for Saturday's game, though.

 

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I was talking about you judging a 51 year old and a 25 year old. That's why I only copied that part of your post.
Would be nice if you were able to keep up with a conversation now and then. :rolleyes:
Oh and you "reserve the right" do you? Away and gies us peace FFS. 
You didn't quote my post, you quoted W6er.

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6 hours ago, W6er said:

It's not illegal to fart in a crowded restaurant, but it's not acceptable behaviour. Like it or not, and you clearly do not, but people will disapprove of a sexual relationship between a 42 year old and a 16 year old. 

I notice you've switched back from the 51 and 25 year old comment then?

 

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5 hours ago, W6er said:

In your opinion.

It's not really his opinion. It's legal fact. At 16, you can have a full relationship with anyone from 16 to 105 or more. Those who don't like it can either change the law or bite their tongues.

I can't believe you used a farting in a restaurant analogy.

Edited by oaksoft

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11 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:
11 hours ago, faraway saint said:
Oh, more sweary words, hard man. emoji38.png
PS I meant ANYTHING to do with the Government, not people, never mind, emoji38.png
 
 

You've obviously had an irony by pass

You’ve obviously had a lobotomy 😂

believed every word of Carl Beech, lots to say about that

not a lot to say about Salmond and Mackay

sums up your character to a tee

oh, aye, and your contribution to the kibble discussion is comedy gold

on a par with the post you made about how everyone would have got into East End Park on time had they arrived earlier 😂

stupidity doesn’t cover it 😃

 

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9 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:
10 hours ago, W6er said:
Either you believe a sixteen year old is capable of making a rational choice about their sexuality and with whom they would like to have sex with, or they're not. Define 'grooming'? If I make discrete enquiries about a girl to check her availability, send her flowers and contrive to bump into her and engage her in conversation, am I not 'grooming her'?
Anybody can block a telephone number, or tell somebody they're not interested. Of course there are situations whereby somebody can use their position of authority or seniority to coerce somebody, but that's a different thing. There has to be an age where people are allowed to make their own decisions about important matters, whethere that's 16, 18, 21 or 25 is up to society.

Yes that age is 16. You seem to be getting a few things muddled here

No he isn’t

you can’t buy alcohol at 18

its you who seems to be getting confused

yet again :1eye

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It's not really his opinion. It's legal fact. At 16, you can have a full relationship with anyone from 16 to 105 or more. Those who don't like it can either change the law or bite their tongues.
I can't believe you used a farting in a restaurant analogy.
Is anyone claiming otherwise? W6er was looking to debate whether the age should be changed.
He's actually said things on this thread that you have agreed with in later posts. As have I.
You are just so eager to argue you haven't noticed.

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2 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

If harassment is the issue, why is the boy's age getting focused on?

IMO the age gap here, though not illegal, would be a bit of a no-no for me. Of course, that's just my personal opinion, other folk will have their own equally valid opinions and some folk, mainly due to religious beliefs, will even think that no age gap is appropriate because it's two males.

People should ask themselves how they would feel if their 16 year old child got into a relationship with this age gap?

Honestly I have no idea why they are fixated on the age gap. Maybe they just like gossip. Maybe they are not intelligent enough to see beyond the image.

The pestering is what stood out for me. This is how many, many men behave and it's a mindset which leads to the ridiculous "grey area" claims when it comes to harassment. McKay was perfectly entitled to make a move for another adult of legal age. He did so. But his message was ignored. To normal men, that sends a very clear message and you then either ask directly for a date or you f**k off and leave the other person alone. McKay did neither. He pestered this perspn for months with compliments and DMs, most of which were ignored for many weeks. That is a line crossed for me.

As for my own 16 year old? For a start I wouldn't be calling them a "child" at that age. They are adults at 16. Period. It's my job as a parent to make sure that they are functioning adults at that age. If anyone has a 16 year old "child", that is a reflection of their poor parenting IMO. You are asking the wrong person here. I am only interested in their happiness and instilling in them tools to make their own decisions. How them dating someone older than 40 makes ME personally feel is completely irrelevant. I would of course offer advice.

Edited by oaksoft

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1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:

Is anyone claiming otherwise? W6er was looking to debate whether the age should be changed.
He's actually said things on this thread that you have agreed with in later posts. As have I.
You are just so eager to argue you haven't noticed.

If W6er has a problem with my posts I am sure they can contact me themselves.

I'm pretty sure nobody asked you to ride to the rescue.

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15 hours ago, antrin said:

You obviously DO care! 
you asked a question, then reject a perfectly valid answer.

 

just because your experience meant you didn’t “mature” till much, much later than 16, it might not ( it DOESN’T) hold true for most folk who are horny from their early teens.

 

but... like you.... I don’t care either😭

Are you suggesting that  being horny and being mature are synonymous?     

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