faraway saint Posted March 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, cockles1987 said: Don't like these figures We're falling behind, that'll ruin somebody's glee. As of today, and @oaksoft the numbers WON'T go up before midnight ya walloper, (That was hilarious your desperation on that magical 4.5 hours ) we are sitting on 335. That's the number I said yesterday, 48 and today is at 54. Edited March 23, 2020 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 He was, of course, an absolute monster: I'm not sure why so many people believe 'left-wing' is synonymous with 'good'. Read my post again, totalitarian is not left-wing by any stretch of the imagination. The systems you've described could as easily be ascribed to Nazi Germany, are you saying it was left-wing?Only Wiki but you'll get the ideahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W6er Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, salmonbuddie said: Read my post again, totalitarian is not left-wing by any stretch of the imagination. The systems you've described could as easily be ascribed to Nazi Germany, are you saying it was left-wing? Only Wiki but you'll get the idea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism I read your post, and I have explained that a command economy is by its very nature totalitarian. Are you saying that Socialism and Communism are not left-wing ideologies? Some people would argue that National Socialism is a left-wing ideology, and certainly Fascism is an off-shoot of Socialism. Right-wing political ideologies typically advocate small, laissez-faire government. Libertarians, like Ron Paul, are usually considered 'right-wing'. Edited March 23, 2020 by W6er Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 Wonder if this Chinese poster was giving us advice on dodging this virus?😷 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 I read your post, and I have explained that a command economy is by its very nature totalitarian. Are you saying that Socialism and Communism are not left-wing ideologies? Some people would argue that National Socialism is a left-wing ideology, and certainly Fascism is an off-shoot of Socialism. Right-wing political ideologies typically advocate small, laissez-faire government. Libertarians, like Ron Paul, are usually considered 'right-wing'. And left wing political ideologies usually advocate looking out for each other. That's not relevant. My point is that Communism in theory is left-wing, as practiced it was totalitarian and by no measure left-wing. Socialism is left wing, there are many examples in Europe alone of workable socialist countries/economies. I'll leave it to you to explain why fascism is an offshoot of socialism, you've lost me there. Unless you're agreeing with my point about practice and theory? Anyway, wrong thread for this, I'll stop here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, linwood buddie said: Wonder if this Chinese poster was giving us advice on dodging this virus?😷 It translates as "Stay in".....................................couldn't find out if it said for how long right enough, my Chinese is slipping. 🤧 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W6er Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, salmonbuddie said: And left wing political ideologies usually advocate looking out for each other. That's not relevant. My point is that Communism in theory is left-wing, as practiced it was totalitarian and by no measure left-wing. Socialism is left wing, there are many examples in Europe alone of workable socialist countries/economies. I'll leave it to you to explain why fascism is an offshoot of socialism, you've lost me there. Unless you're agreeing with my point about practice and theory? Anyway, wrong thread for this, I'll stop here. All ideologies claim their policies are benevolent and for the good of society. Socialists have always advocated a revolution in which the means of production are seized and then an egalitarian utopia is created when everything is shared, which is great, but you need to butcher the monarchy, bankers, capitalist pigs, fascists, tories and anyone else who is basically perceived as an enemy of this utopian vision. Then you need to be vigilant for saboteurs trying to subvert the new society. What examples of socialism are there in Europe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 All ideologies claim their policies are benevolent and for the good of society. Socialists have always advocated a revolution in which the means of production are seized and then an egalitarian utopia is created when everything is shared, which is great, but you need to butcher the monarchy, bankers, capitalist pigs, fascists, tories and anyone else who is basically perceived as an enemy of this utopian vision. Then you need to be vigilant for saboteurs trying to subvert the new society. What examples of socialism are there in Europe? I said I wouldn't but...I'm a socialist, I've never advocated any such thing.You first, fascism from socialism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 19 minutes ago, faraway saint said: It translates as "Stay in".....................................couldn't find out if it said for how long right enough, my Chinese is slipping. 🤧 I need to stay in I’ve got pleurisy in one of my lungs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, linwood buddie said: I need to stay in I’ve got pleurisy in one of my lungs. I will bring you toilet rolls........................costly but worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W6er Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, salmonbuddie said: I said I wouldn't but... I'm a socialist, I've never advocated any such thing. You first, fascism from socialism. From Wikipedia: Quote During this time, he published "Il Trentino veduto da un Socialista" ("Trentino as seen by a Socialist") in the radical periodical La Voce.[36] He also wrote several essays about German literature, some stories, and one novel: L'amante del Cardinale: Claudia Particella, romanzo storico (The Cardinal's Mistress). This novel he co-wrote with Santi Corvaja, and it was published as a serial book in the Trento newspaper Il Popolo. It was released in installments from 20 January to 11 May 1910.[37] The novel was bitterly anticlerical, and years later was withdrawn from circulation after Mussolini made a truce with the Vatican.[17] He had become one of Italy's most prominent socialists. In September 1911, Mussolini participated in a riot, led by socialists, against the Italian war in Libya. He bitterly denounced Italy's "imperialist war", an action that earned him a five-month jail term.[38] After his release, he helped expel Ivanoe Bonomi and Leonida Bissolati from the Socialist Party, as they were two "revisionists" who had supported the war. He was rewarded the editorship of the Socialist Party newspaper Avanti! Under his leadership, its circulation soon rose from 20,000 to 100,000.[39] John Gunther in 1940 called him "one of the best journalists alive"; Mussolini was a working reporter while preparing for the March on Rome, and wrote for the Hearst News Service until 1935.[26] Mussolini was so familiar with Marxist literature that in his own writings he would not only quote from well-known Marxist works but also from the relatively obscure works.[40] During this period Mussolini considered himself a Marxist and he described Marx as "the greatest of all theorists of socialism."[41] In 1913, he published Giovanni Hus, il veridico (Jan Hus, true prophet), an historical and political biography about the life and mission of the Czech ecclesiastic reformer Jan Hus and his militant followers, the Hussites. During this socialist period of his life, Mussolini sometimes used the pen name "Vero Eretico" ("sincere heretic").[42] Mussolini rejected egalitarianism, a core doctrine of socialism.[8] He was influenced by Nietzsche's anti-Christian ideas and negation of God's existence.[43] Mussolini felt that socialism had faltered, in view of the failures of Marxist determinism and social democratic reformism, and believed that Nietzsche's ideas would strengthen socialism. While associated with socialism, Mussolini's writings eventually indicated that he had abandoned Marxism and egalitarianism in favor of Nietzsche's übermensch concept and anti-egalitarianism.[43] (...) After being ousted by the Italian Socialist Party for his support of Italian intervention, Mussolini made a radical transformation, ending his support for class conflict and joining in support of revolutionary nationalism transcending class lines.[9] He formed the interventionist newspaper Il Popolo d'Italia and the Fasci Rivoluzionari d'Azione Internazionalista ("Revolutionary Fasci for International Action") in October 1914.[48] His nationalist support of intervention enabled him to raise funds from Ansaldo (an armaments firm) and other companies to create Il Popolo d'Italia to convince socialists and revolutionaries to support the war.[54] Further funding for Mussolini's Fascists during the war came from French sources, beginning in May 1915. A major source of this funding from France is believed to have been from French socialists who sent support to dissident socialists who wanted Italian intervention on France's side.[55] On 5 December 1914, Mussolini denounced orthodox socialism for failing to recognize that the war had made national identity and loyalty more significant than class distinction.[9] He fully demonstrated his transformation in a speech that acknowledged the nation as an entity, a notion he had rejected prior to the war What socialist countries are there in Europe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 What socialist countries are there in Europe?That's one man being opportunistic and doing what suits him best. Still with you, I'm afraid. ETA - let's do this elsewhere, wrong thread, especially with live TV right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 23 minutes ago, faraway saint said: I will bring you toilet rolls........................costly but worth it. Do I just stick them down my windpipe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, linwood buddie said: Do I just stick them down my windpipe? I'm no a fecking REAL doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W6er Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, salmonbuddie said: 9 minutes ago, W6er said: What socialist countries are there in Europe? That's one man being opportunistic and doing what suits him best. Still with you, I'm afraid. Both Fascism and Socialism are statist. Both ideologies believe that individuals' rights and freedoms are subordinate to the collective good, or the will of the state. Therefore one has to relinquish one's private property, and adhere to the state's ideological demands. Conversely, Margaret Thatcher's brand of conservatism was very individualistic, indeed I found one of her most famous quotes on The Guardian website: Quote "They are casting their problems at society. And, you know, there's no such thing as society. There are individual men and women and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look after themselves first. It is our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbours." American society is arguably the most 'right-wing' society, and it enshrines the rights of individuals to pursue happiness without interference from the state. It promotes self-reliance, as opposed to state handouts or protection, hence no national health service and rudimentary state unemployment benefits. The premise being that the state should not be allowed to confiscate somebody's earnings and give that money to somebody else, for health care or whatever. The US has real freedom of speech, the right to bear arms because again the state shouldn't be taking away the individual's right to self-defence. I believe statism vs individualism is a better way of framing political ideology than 'keft-wing' vs 'right-wing'. Now what socialist states are there in Europe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 @salmonbuddie, don't, don't, just don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, cockles1987 said: So apart from me, who else is at work tomorrow Me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W6er Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, faraway saint said: @salmonbuddie, don't, don't, just don't. Aye, maybe you're right. This is why we need a moderator who can move these posts into another thread. @salmonbuddie are you able to do this? I noticed that you edited your post without a trace, i.e. the usual 'Post edited by Salmonbuddie at...' which is curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 1 minute ago, W6er said: Aye, maybe you're right. This is why we need a moderator who can move these posts into another thread. @salmonbuddie are you able to do this? I noticed that you edited your post without a trace, i.e. the usual 'Post edited by Salmonbuddie at...' which is curious. Funniest post of the day, well done, and I'm as funny as feck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastlandssaint Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/mar/23/uk-coronavirus-live-news-latest-boris-johnson-minister-condemns-people-ignoring-two-metre-distance-rule-in-parks-as-very-selfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, Dickson said: I'm at work now. It'll take much more than a life threatening virus and the threat of a few fines to get me to miss a shift. . I'll find out tomorrow if our work is seen as essential, very open to interpretation. Not bothered, 80% of a lot is still a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W6er Posted March 23, 2020 Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, cockles1987 said: So apart from me, who else is at work tomorrow At work or working? I'm working from home, which is not the skive it's cracked up to be. Most of my colleagues have done it for the last couple of years, whereas I always made myself go in. I just cannot motivate myself and my job depends on me reading documents, which I like to photocopy, highlight and annotate, but which I cannot do at home (no hard copies are allowed to leave the office). I haven't got a comfortable chair from which to work, the light reflects off my laptop's monitor, I can't bounce ideas off colleagues and basically it's 10x harder for me to do my job. Plus other people I know are getting paid to sit and watch Netflix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted March 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2020 Just now, cockles1987 said: We're scrapping the bottom of the barrel if you're described as essential. Scraping barrels is essential.....................for the people that need the barrels. I try not to scrap them, costly. Do I need to explain EVERYTHING to you? See post above, ya trumpet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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