bazil85 Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Hiram Abiff said: Spin away. No it’s not been accepted that the death rate for flu is much lower. 44,000 people died of the flu in 2015 who wouldn’t have died had we locked down the economy. Your disregard for these deaths is shocking. Like I say, it isn't an effective argument technique. I suppose it's all you have given the health experts are against your view. We use what we can eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Abiff Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Your view would cripple health services globally & massively increase infected/ avoidable death rates. But hey at least the economy would be back at a higher level (for a while) My view is the view of Sweden and it’s not crippling their services any more than its crippling ours.Your view is based on an estimate by Imperial College which has not been peer reviewed. It’s based on an estimate where they have confirmed that the model is old, the calculations have not been verified and they have not been documented.They have released neither the code behind their model nor their assumptions.Other experts have challenged their model including a group at Oxford University. Their model states that takes no account of the harm that a lockdown will do to the health service and does not estimate for the number of people who will die as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Abiff Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 The death rate for the flu is something very low like 0.005%, educate yourself. Better yet, leave the decision making to the global health professionals and experts who are on my side on this. Nae luck. And what is the death rate for coronavirus?“ Nae luck”? Really??? Brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Abiff Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Just now, Hiram Abiff said: My view is the view of Sweden and it’s not crippling their services any more than its crippling ours. Your view is based on an estimate by Imperial College which has not been peer reviewed. It’s based on an estimate where they have confirmed that the model is old, the calculations have not been verified and they have not been documented. They have released neither the code behind their model nor their assumptions. Other experts have challenged their model including a group at Oxford University. Their model states that takes no account of the harm that a lockdown will do to the health service and does not estimate for the number of people who will die as a result. You assume we are just like Sweden with no basis. As I already pointed out to you, it is speculated the much larger number of single occupancy properties in Sweden is a major factor. We don't have that in many built up areas of Scotland. It also may be very premature, we don't know what could happen there. Some experts are predicting mass infection. The point that also completely beats you, which I pointed out earlier in the week is we had similar restrictions in place to what you want, 2-4 weeks ago and data that came out of the back of that shows a clear rise in infected. It's only now we are seeing a slowing/ flattening, correlated with the timescales of the lock-down. If we left it as you wanted, the data points to that increase continuing. You can't show why it would suddenly stop. In a scenario like this, it is predicted there will be contrasting views. Maybe we are going with the risk adverse view. But I'd take that when it comes to human life everyday. I suppose your views being more aligned to the right, you're more happy to gamble with human life and protect the economy. Fine, I'll never agree with that but you're welcome to have that opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Abiff Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Analysis from Wuhan gives the rate between 0.04% and 0.12% Away and educate yourself Baz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said: And what is the death rate for coronavirus? “ Nae luck”? Really??? Brilliant! Over 0.5% of recorded cases globally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Abiff Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 You assume we are just like Sweden with no basis. As I already pointed out to you, it is speculated the much larger number of single occupancy properties in Sweden is a major factor. We don't have that in many built up areas of Scotland. It also may be very premature, we don't know what could happen there. Some experts are predicting mass infection. The point that also completely beats you, which I pointed out earlier in the week is we had similar restrictions in place to what you want, 2-4 weeks ago and data that came out of the back of that shows a clear rise in infected. It's only now we are seeing a slowing/ flattening, correlated with the timescales of the lock-down. If we left it as you wanted, the data points to that increase continuing. You can't show why it would suddenly stop. In a scenario like this, it is predicted there will be contrasting views. Maybe we are going with the risk adverse view. But I'd take that when it comes to human life everyday. I suppose your views being more aligned to the right, you're more happy to gamble with human life and protect the economy. Fine, I'll never agree with that but you're welcome to have that opinion. Sweden is no different than any other Northern European country in the coronavirus data. And you wouldn’t take your view with flu? You’re happy to throw 44,000 people under a bus? I suppose your views being more aligned to the far right and happy to support a fascist police state means you are more happy to gamble with human life. Fine I’ll agree with that but you’re welcome to your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Abiff Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Over 0.5% of recorded cases globally. In other words, you don’t actually know? Early assessment from Wuhan says 0.04 to 0.12% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Abiff Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 This was on the BBC website the other day, no matter how you cut it, it’s bad news all round What about the impact of the lockdown? The lockdown, itself, however could cost lives. Prof Robert Dinwall, from Nottingham Trent University, says "the collateral damage to society and the economy" could include: mental health problems and suicides linked to self-isolation heart problems from lack of activity the impact on health from increased unemployment and reduced living standards Others have also pointed to the health cost from steps such as delaying routine operations and cancer screening. Meanwhile, University of Bristol researchers say the benefit of a long-term lockdown in reducing premature deaths could be outweighed by the lost life expectancy from a prolonged economic dip. And the tipping point, they say, is a 6.4% decline in the size of the economy - on a par with what happened following the 2008 financial crash. It would see a loss of three months of life on average across the population because of factors from declining living standards to poorer health care.And baz supports thisA shocking disregard for human life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 FFS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Abiff Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 The death rate for the flu is something very low like 0.005%, educate yourself. Dear me, just noticed this. Maybe closer to 0.1% baz. Inflating the rate 20 times over and then telling me to educate myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sally02 Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 9 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said: In other words, you don’t actually know? Early assessment from Wuhan says 0.04 to 0.12% And you believe everything that comes out of China🤧🤧🤧 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 16 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said: Sweden is no different than any other Northern European country in the coronavirus data. And you wouldn’t take your view with flu? You’re happy to throw 44,000 people under a bus? I suppose your views being more aligned to the far right and happy to support a fascist police state means you are more happy to gamble with human life. Fine I’ll agree with that but you’re welcome to your opinion. Incorrect already pointed out differences with flu spin already shown why this is an ineffective arguing technique but I do appreciate it’s all you’ve got. That clearly frustrates you but feel free to continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 16 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said: In other words, you don’t actually know? Early assessment from Wuhan says 0.04 to 0.12% No, it’s certainly being recorded. There is of course the debate about how many would have died anyway but I have given my view on this already. 5 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said: Dear me, just noticed this. Maybe closer to 0.1% baz. Inflating the rate 20 times over and then telling me to educate myself. Eh? If the flu was 0.1% then I wouldn’t have been inflating it, I would have been underestimating it. I’ve also found nothing that suggests 1 in 1,000 people that get the flu will die but feel free to share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapsalmon Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 1 hour ago, faraway saint said: Don't twist my words ya fcukwit. Away and play on the motorway, I'm done with you, ya simpleton. 👋👋👋 Reported for stealing my ideas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 7 minutes ago, slapsalmon said: Reported for stealing my ideas It did occur to me, just hoped you wouldn't show up for a while. 😅😅😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: From the BBC: "... in Paisley three men were fined for being in a van together on Saturday. Police said they had no reasonable excuse to be together and they told officers they had no intention of complying with regulations." Fcuk em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beyond our ken Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 (edited) https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think "It certainly seems reasonable, now, that a degree of social distancing should be maintained for a while, especially for the elderly and the immune-suppressed." The writer seems to be somewhat ambivalent. It is right for any scientist to keep their eyes on all sides of an argument, even when they already have a firm view of what the evidence is telling them Edited April 3, 2020 by beyond our ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 12 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: My thoughts entirely. You would think that anyone with a modicum if sense would at least feign ignorance instead of doing what they did. Indeed, similar to the article posted a few days ago about woman at a train station, arrogance, feck em all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 1 minute ago, Dickson said: I know. I apologise. But MI6 won't let me reveal who my relatives really are 🙄😳 I'm beginning to wonder if the weirdo who wanted to film young boys playing football has any family or friends hiimself. Apology accepted, don't do it again ya fud. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 28 minutes ago, faraway saint said: Indeed, similar to the article posted a few days ago about woman at a train station, arrogance, feck em all. Erm, is it this woman you're talking about - if so the conviction was deemed unsafe & quashed. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/coronavirus-how-woman-loitering-at-train-station-was-wrongfully-convicted-in-shambolic-case/ar-BB125zrP?ocid=spartanntp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted April 3, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: Erm, is it this woman you're talking about - if so the conviction was deemed unsafe & quashed. https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/coronavirus-how-woman-loitering-at-train-station-was-wrongfully-convicted-in-shambolic-case/ar-BB125zrP?ocid=spartanntp A technicality, feck her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedflanders123 Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 1 hour ago, faraway saint said: Fcuk em. A taser to their balls would be appropriate. We had 2 young females running riot in East Kilbride town centre cursing at security and threatening to lick windows. Would not listen and clear that we have no deterrents in society that garner any respect. Grinds my gears. I would fine the parents and maybe that would be more effective to those neds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted April 3, 2020 Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 3 hours ago, bazil85 said: It wasn't at all, I don't think you can put a certain percentage on these uncertain times but it wouldn't be anything near the statistics going around right now. Very disappointing to see how little you value human life though. The right wing gang. That percentage is probably much higher than reality as it is calculated on the number of KNOWN cases. As testing is still not taking place extensively it's highly likely there are far more who have, or have had, the virus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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