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faraway saint

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It looks as if it is directly related to travel patterns and not totally on Countries responses.  Oz and NZ are quite isolated in terms of mass travel, as is the rest of the Southern Hemisphere, where cases are generally much lower, whereas the whole of Western Europe has had huge unrestricted cross border travel for decades now, and massive tourist infrastructures and travel between Europe and US, through global hubs including London, New York,  Amsterdam, Paris, then I think you can start to explain the bigger numbers in Europe and US.

Edited by sally02
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Today's numbers have a slight rise, 778, 717 yesterday with 737 on Sunday.

3 days in the 700's, confirming the evening out that's been apparent for over a week.

This issue about deaths in the community, not yet entered in England will surely be added to the final total and not onto a days number?

I'm bemused this has taken so long, they seem to put the majority of deaths that occur in hospitals into the virus deaths, not sure why the numbers aren't available for deaths outside hospitals. 

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1 hour ago, Hiram Abiff said:

I hold my hands up.

I have been completely wrong.

This has turned out to far far worse than I expected.

And the numbers of Covid 19 deaths I see reported on the TV are vastly underestimated.

Its a catastrophe beyond what I could have imagined and I will now shut up.

As must of you already knew, I’m an arse.

 

It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong and that is to be respected. Well done. 

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3 hours ago, faraway saint said:

My mate and his wife went to Oz on the 9th March, returned on 25th March.

No checks in or out, just saying. 

Inwards would've been before Australia closed it's borders to incomers on the 20th.

Outwards these tests take time and perhaps the authorities wouldn't be too interested in finding out if people leaving the country were positive anyway. 

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3 hours ago, Hiram Abiff said:

I hold my hands up.

I have been completely wrong.

This has turned out to far far worse than I expected.

And the numbers of Covid 19 deaths I see reported on the TV are vastly underestimated.

Its a catastrophe beyond what I could have imagined and I will now shut up.

As must of you already knew, I’m an arse.

 

While you frequently went OTT I think it's important to recognize that there are different interpretations of the data available and that some of them come from credible sources - it's right that people & scientists question the government and it's actions although with people's health and lives at risk we should always err on the side of caution.

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Guest TPAFKATS
 
An article on the subject from last weeks Guardian - like the article & FTOF says NZ has substantial advantages.
     

Have Australia and New Zealand stopped Covid-19 in its tracks?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus
         

 

 
Biggest advantage being not having to follow a policy if herd immunity.
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19 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:
9 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:
 
An article on the subject from last weeks Guardian - like the article & FTOF says NZ has substantial advantages.
     

Have Australia and New Zealand stopped Covid-19 in its tracks?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/have-australia-new-zealand-stopped-covid-19-in-its-tracks-coronavirus
        

Biggest advantage being not having to follow a policy if herd immunity.

Classic Dom!

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10 hours ago, Hiram Abiff said:

I hold my hands up.

I have been completely wrong.

This has turned out to far far worse than I expected.

And the numbers of Covid 19 deaths I see reported on the TV are vastly underestimated.

Its a catastrophe beyond what I could have imagined and I will now shut up.

As must of you already knew, I’m an arse.

 

You had every right to voice your opinion. It wouldn't be much of a forum if we all agreed with one another. However, as someone else remarked, it's very decent of you to admit you were wrong. Fair play.

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Amongst all the gloom and doom there's been plenty, too many to mention, of people doing amazing things every day.

This man, 99 years old, set out to raise £1,000 for the NHS by walking 100 laps of his garden.

He's now on £4.2 MILLION.

Well done sir, well done indeed.  :clapping

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-52278746

Edited by faraway saint
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40 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Amongst all the gloom and doom there's been plenty, too many to mention, of people doing amazing things every day.

This man, 99 years old, set out to raise £1,000 for the NHS by walking 100 laps of his garden.

He's now on £4.2 MILLION.

Well done sir, well done indeed.  :clapping

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-52278746

Stop being racist! 

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Just 19 patients treated over Easter weekend at 4,000-bed NHS Nightingale hospital in London

Few patients were treated at the new overflow facility as intensive care capacity at existing London hospitals never went above 80 per cent

We appear to have gone way beyond “flattening the curve” which was the whole point of the lockdown.

I admit that I now know this virus is more lethal the flu for certain vulnerable groups.

The lockdown can’t go on for ever and a vaccine won’t be here anytime soon. For the vast majority, this is a mild d or non symptomatic illness.

The vulnerable are being isolated, I see no reason for this lockdown to continue.

It’ll kill more people than it saves.

 

Edited by Hiram Abiff
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For the idiot who harps on about care home deaths being covered up, the ONS weekly reports can’t hide all cause mortality.

Anyone with half a brain can figure it out and how many more folk are dying in the community.

It a shame the foolish sociopath seems to take great delight in posting about people dying. 

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33 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said:

For the idiot who harps on about care home deaths being covered up, the ONS weekly reports can’t hide all cause mortality.

About the care-home deaths “cover-up”...

I really enjoyed Chris Brookmyre’s Tweet in support of the Government, yesterday.  :)

 

 

 

Edited by antrin
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1 hour ago, Hiram Abiff said:

Just 19 patients treated over Easter weekend at 4,000-bed NHS Nightingale hospital in London

Few patients were treated at the new overflow facility as intensive care capacity at existing London hospitals never went above 80 per cent

We appear to have gone way beyond “flattening the curve” which was the whole point of the lockdown.

I admit that I now know this virus is more lethal the flu for certain vulnerable groups.

The lockdown can’t go on for ever and a vaccine won’t be here anytime soon. For the vast majority, this is a mild d or non symptomatic illness.

The vulnerable are being isolated, I see no reason for this lockdown to continue.

It’ll kill more people than it saves.

 

I think the issue on an exit strategy is it's genuinely not known how we can do this anytime soon without risking (and ending) many lives. There is no doubt UK has poorly managed this in comparison to other nations but we are where we are now and that needs to reflect next stages. We can get the torches out when we go BAU. If some hospital ICUs are at 80% capacity now with lockdown approaching close to a month, would ending lockdown not surely push them up at the very least 20% and likely far more?

I know you admitted you were wrong on the deadliness of this but my point to you was on short-sightedness. The same applies for this. More people out and about at this stage would very likely cause the virus to bounce back. We are still potentially a wee bit away from peak by some estimates or not long had it by others. Now is not the time for more people to be in widespread contact with each other. 

Exit strategy needed but I do empathise with the people involved on why there isn't one. 

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With a year plus till a vaccine is ready it'll be a long time before we return to normality, that's why it was so depressing today to hear Trump say he was cutting funding to the WHO - really this pandemic is too serious for Trump's brand of sabre-rattling politics, who knows what he'll be prepared to do/say in an election year?

*********************

On the lockdown exit strategy perhaps I'm reading too much between the lines but I reckon the government is priming us for an early easing of restrictions for economic reasons. Maybe more categories of businesses could be opened but the risk of opening bars, restaurants, theatres, professional sporting events till we have a vaccine seems too risky to me. I live quite close to a bowling club perhaps that could be re-opened with social distancing maintained and people only touching their own balls :youngman but the 5-a-side place up the road - no chance.

*********************

I'm 20 years out of science and usually have little interest in what's going in that field but even I'm trying to reopen long dormant neural pathways and what I've seen over the last month or so leaves little room for optimism.

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33 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

With a year plus till a vaccine is ready it'll be a long time before we return to normality, that's why it was so depressing today to hear Trump say he was cutting funding to the WHO - really this pandemic is too serious for Trump's brand of sabre-rattling politics, who knows what he'll be prepared to do/say in an election year?

*********************

On the lockdown exit strategy perhaps I'm reading too much between the lines but I reckon the government is priming us for an early easing of restrictions for economic reasons. Maybe more categories of businesses could be opened but the risk of opening bars, restaurants, theatres, professional sporting events till we have a vaccine seems too risky to me. I live quite close to a bowling club perhaps that could be re-opened with social distancing maintained and people only touching their own balls :youngman but the 5-a-side place up the road - no chance.

*********************

I'm 20 years out of science and usually have little interest in what's going in that field but even I'm trying to reopen long dormant neural pathways and what I've seen over the last month or so leaves little room for optimism.

Ultimately economic reasons will be the driving force behind any lockdown relaxation.

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I think the issue on an exit strategy is it's genuinely not known how we can do this anytime soon without risking (and ending) many lives. There is no doubt UK has poorly managed this in comparison to other nations but we are where we are now and that needs to reflect next stages. We can get the torches out when we go BAU. If some hospital ICUs are at 80% capacity now with lockdown approaching close to a month, would ending lockdown not surely push them up at the very least 20% and likely far more?
I know you admitted you were wrong on the deadliness of this but my point to you was on short-sightedness. The same applies for this. More people out and about at this stage would very likely cause the virus to bounce back. We are still potentially a wee bit away from peak by some estimates or not long had it by others. Now is not the time for more people to be in widespread contact with each other. 
Exit strategy needed but I do empathise with the people involved on why there isn't one. 
Well said!
I agree!
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The word "quarantine" originates from quarantena, the Venetian language form, meaning "forty days" This is due to the 40-day isolation of ships and people practiced as a measure of disease prevention related to the plague.
40 days , no more, no less. 
12 weeks was strongly hinted at right back in the early days.

More than double your target.

Right or wrong?

No idea... But I'm prepared to play it safe for the common good if need be.
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