Coronavirus

[Hiram Abiff]

27 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

The vast majority of excess deaths in Uk right now compared to previous years are Covid19 noted.

 Obviously! Doh!
 

Quote

You can’t make a claim the lockdown is causing more deaths than the virus.

 

The lockdown will kill many more people than it saves ( if indeed it saves anyone at all)

The UN reckons the lockdown will kill hundreds of millions. The virus won’t kill hundreds of millions.

 

Quote

You’re wish not to have a lockdown would be killing more people based on statistics.

 

Show me these statistics 

Quote

Statists are also showing lockdown has slowed the spread of the virus,

 

No they aren’t 

Quote

logically & evidence based on that, those percentages of ICU & hospital beds would evaporate if we didn’t lockdown.

 

show me the evidence to back that up
 

Quote

you’d think you’d learn to hold your tongue after being continuously proven wrong when going against the near global expert advice

😂 

where have I been proven wrong?

At the time of the plague, “near global expert advice” was that it was caused by the alignment of two planets. 

How did that turn out?

Edited April 22, 2020 by Hiram Abiff

[smcc]

1 hour ago, Hiram Abiff said:

You okay with this @bazil85?

This is what your lockdown is causing.

David Beasley is the head of the UN’s World Food Program, and on Tuesday he warned that we could actually see famines of “biblical proportions” by the end of this calendar year.  The following comes from ABC News…

The coronavirus pandemic could soon double hunger, causing famines of “biblical proportions” around the world by the end of the year, the head of the World Food Programme, David Beasley, told the U.N. Security Council on Tuesday.

Beasley warned that analysis from the World Food Programme, the U.N.’s food-assistance branch, shows that because of the coronavirus, “an additional 130 million people could be pushed to the brink of starvation by the end of 2020. That’s a total of 265 million people.”
 

 

44 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said:

Coronavirus: World risks 'biblical' famines due to pandemic - UN
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-52373888

I'm struggling to find anything in these posts that suggests the lock-down is responsible for the projected famines. The blame seems to lie on the coronavirus.

"A report estimates that the number suffering from hunger could go from 135 million to more than 250 million.

Those most at risk are in 10 countries affected by conflict, economic crisis and climate change, the WFP says.

The fourth annual Global Report on Food Crises highlights Yemen, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Afghanistan, Venezuela, Ethiopia, South Sudan, Sudan, Syria, Nigeria and Haiti.

In South Sudan, 61% of the population was affected by food crisis last year, the report says.

Even before the pandemic hit, parts of East Africa and South Asia were already facing severe food shortages caused by drought and the worst locust infestations for decades."

 

[smcc]

10 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said:

 Obviously! Doh!

At the time of the plague, “near global expert advice” was that it was caused by the alignment of two planets. 

How did that turn out?

Things have moved on a little since then, or are you still using the entrails of chickens for your augury?

[bazil85]

13 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said:

 Obviously! Doh!
if you think this is obvious, why on earth would you want to lift a lockdown and increase people’s exposure to each other risking them getting a virus that’s killing so many people?

The lockdown will kill many more people than it saves ( if indeed it saves anyone at all)

The UN reckons the lockdown will kill hundreds of millions. The virus won’t kill hundreds of millions.

Both possible predictions yet the majority of UN are in lockdown. Using their apparent data then coming to a different conclusion is very strange. Can you evidence this will definitely happen? 

Show me these statistics 

Attached, increased deaths with a large scale lockdown in place. It’s known this virus passes from person to person, I’m sure even you can’t deny that. People are factually in less contact with each other limiting the spread of the disease. See other stats on the curve flattening after lockdown has had time to work. 
 

No they aren’t 

Again look at the flattening of cases in this country & others. What’s the common factor where this is happening? Lockdown. 
 

show me the evidence to back that up
Evidence is in your own stats, these are percentages used with people locked down & social distancing. Are you denying if an infected person comes into contact with more people, they’ll infect more people? 😳

where have I been proven wrong?

you admitted you were wrong regarding how deadly this virus was, I’ll quote you separately to show you were wrong to quote excess death stats, I pointed out it was premature at the time. 

At the time of the plague, “near global expert advice” was that it was caused by the alignment of two planets. 

How did that turn out?

That wasn’t based on science, it was based on magic superstition. Do you genuinely think that’s a good argument given the advancements in all relevant fields of science? 

 

[Hiram Abiff]

Overwhelmed NHS staff 

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Hiram Abiff

[Hiram Abiff]

3 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

 

Baz, as I‘ve told you before, I can’t reply unless you use the quite facility correctly.

However, as suspected, you’ve provided no statistics nor evidence to back up any of the points you made in your previous post.

Good luck with those aligning planets. 👍

[bazil85]

On 4/2/2020 at 7:42 PM, Hiram Abiff said:

Professor John Oxford of Queen Mary University London, one of the world’s leading virologists and influenza specialists, comes to the following conclusion regarding Covid19: „Personally, I would say the best advice is to spend less time watching TV news which is sensational and not very good. Personally, I view this Covid outbreak as akin to a bad winter influenza epidemic. In this case we have had 8000 deaths this last year in the ‘at risk’ groups viz over 65% people with heart disease etc. I do not feel this current Covid will exceed this number. We are suffering from a media epidemic!“

Premature outlook which turned out to be very wrong. You’d think you’d learn not to cherry pick stories to fit your agenda. This is one of many posts around this time that you went on about this not impacting excessively deaths for this time of year.
 

Ignoring me & others telling you it was far too early to assume that. We were obviously right. 

[bazil85]

1 minute ago, Hiram Abiff said:

Baz, as I‘ve told you before, I can’t reply unless you use the quite facility correctly.

However, as suspected, you’ve provided no statistics nor evidence to back up any of the points you made in your previous post.

Good luck with those aligning planets. 👍

I have though, just like in early April. Your first point was agreeing that excessive deaths are down to Covid 19, that picture I shared is the stats to back it up. 

It defies logic to agree with that AND want people to be allowed to go out in near full numbers to interact again 

[Hiram Abiff]

9 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I have though, just like in early April. Your first point was agreeing that excessive deaths are down to Covid 19, that picture I shared is the stats to back it up. 

It defies logic to agree with that AND want people to be allowed to go out in near full numbers to interact again 

How does agreeing that *some* excess deaths are down to Covid 19 prove that the NHS will be overwhelmed if we come out of lockdown? 
 

That defies logic! 
 

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Hiram Abiff

[Hiram Abiff]

Covid 19 is a magical cure for heart disease, cancer, strokes, etc in New York

 

[bazil85]

3 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said:

How does agreeing that excess deaths are down to Covid 19 prove that the NHS will be overwhelmed if we come out of lockdown? 

That defies logic! 
 

Em... because out of lockdown more people with Covid19 will interact with other people & increase the number of people with the virus 😅 that will then have a knock on for all stats, more sick, more in hospital, more in ICU, more dead  

That’s very basic & simply common sense.

Edited April 22, 2020 by bazil85

[ALBIONSAINT]

45 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said:

Overwhelmed NHS staff 

 

Most routine/non urgent appointments have been cancelled, the ward in the video looks like a day surgery unit (minor ) so it won’t be open or housing patients. Probably not a good idea to make a fun video when your colleagues in other areas of the hospital ( ICU, HDU and coronary care) are stressed to the max. 

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

56 minutes ago, Hiram Abiff said:

Overwhelmed NHS staff 

 

That is a PR disaster right there. Unbelievable. 

[faraway saint]

5 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Most routine/non urgent appointments have been cancelled, the ward in the video looks like a day surgery unit (minor ) so it won’t be open or housing patients. Probably not a good idea to make a fun video when your colleagues in other areas of the hospital ( ICU, HDU and coronary care) are stressed to the max. 

Overall I'd agree but there's been several videos of all departments having a short break and producing a short happy/amusing video.

These people, as you say, are busy/overwhelmed at times but they choose to show they are still human and can see that life goes on.

I'd leave the moral bashing to Oaky, it's what he does. 

 

[smcc]

16 minutes ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Most routine/non urgent appointments have been cancelled, the ward in the video looks like a day surgery unit (minor ) so it won’t be open or housing patients. Probably not a good idea to make a fun video when your colleagues in other areas of the hospital ( ICU, HDU and coronary care) are stressed to the max. 

It certainly bears no resemblance to an ICU.

[oaksoft]

4 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

The daily death figures "only counts those who have died in hospitals after testing positive for the virus."  estimates of the actual death attributable to the virus are between 40% to the FTs 136% (the highest I've seen) above the banner figure.

Hiram may also be correct when he says the lockdown will kill more than it saves the problem as ever is nobody really knows & until the correct procedure is toerr on the side of caution and continue with the lockdown. 

Like I said, the numbers are so untrustworthy as to be essentially useless right now.

Agree that the lockdown should continue but by the end of the summer a decision needs to be made. We can't stay like this forever.

If we have a prolonged lockdown, people will die. If we lift the lockdown too early people will die. There isn't a scenario where people don't die.

[shull]

100% of people die.

[Cookie Monster]

100% of people die.

Just remember to wear your St Mirren bonnet with fcuk the old firm on it.

[ALBIONSAINT]

2 hours ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

That is a PR disaster right there. Unbelievable. 

Have to agree, there Is no way this was cleared by management. Looks like a few arses will be getting kicked. If it was done in the car park and without the frivolous and unnecessary use of PPE it might have been okay. 

[W6er]

6 hours ago, oaksoft said:

If there's any truth in this FT report, then the situation is much worse than is being reported by the government.

https://www.ft.com/content/67e6a4ee-3d05-43bc-ba03-e239799fa6ab

This would make those death rates of 800-odd more than half the true value.

Interestingly, Carl Henegan has been quoted in that article. Something that @Hiram Abiff should appreciate given that he name-checked him further up this page.

Carl Henegan, professor of evidence based medicine at Oxford university, said the deadly effects of Covid-19 were much more marked than during a bad outbreak of seasonal influenza. I don’t think we’ve ever seen such a sharp upturn in deaths at that rate,” he said. The 2017-18 seasonal flu outbreak may have killed 50,000 in the UK but “the reason we did not get alarmed then was that they were spread out over many weeks”.

It's very clear that you can't trust government daily death figures.

An interesting read, thank you.

4 hours ago, FTOF said:

There are very few available statistics that prove anything at present.

Most of the data we have is flawed, in one way or another. It will take a significant amount of time to sort out which data is reliable and which isn't.

What is not up for argument is that the UK was hugely underprepared for this pandemic.

The main thing is that we learn from the many mistakes that have been made, and that we use any reliable data on how best to get out of the current situation and to make sure we're better prepared the next time.

That's my view, too. I'm glad it's not my responsibility to make such important decisions. I'm just using the time to get my gardens sorted and work from home as best as I can.

[ALBIONSAINT]

3 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Overall I'd agree but there's been several videos of all departments having a short break and producing a short happy/amusing video.

These people, as you say, are busy/overwhelmed at times but they choose to show they are still human and can see that life goes on.

I'd leave the moral bashing to Oaky, it's what he does. 

 

Not moral bashing, just feel it’s unprofessional and brings the profession into disrepute. I noticed it was a hospital in Derby that organised it, there won’t be much singing and dancing in Lanarkshire NHS hospitals tonight.

[linwood buddie]

https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19--22-april-2020#.XqDLwtUVcfM.link

Reports of the virus resurgence in areas. 

Edited April 22, 2020 by linwood buddie

[shull]

 

[faraway saint]

3 hours ago, ALBIONSAINT said:

Not moral bashing, just feel it’s unprofessional and brings the profession into disrepute. I noticed it was a hospital in Derby that organised it, there won’t be much singing and dancing in Lanarkshire NHS hospitals tonight.

Sounds as though you are very much moral bashing when you bring in a tragedy like the one you've copied. 👎

As I said there's been plenty of videos made by plenty of NHS departments as they feel it's a release valve and shows the public they are coping. (That's from the horses mouth) 

[shull]