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11 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Is that not because profit margins are wafer thin at many care homes?

Hmmmm. I’m not convinced Oaky but have zero evidence to refute it.

That said, huge profits can still be generated from “wafer thin profit margins”. All a matter of scale. 
Likewise some companies can have huge profit margins and make f**k all. 

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4 minutes ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said:

Hmmmm. I’m not convinced Oaky but have zero evidence to refute it.

That said, huge profits can still be generated from “wafer thin profit margins”. All a matter of scale. 
Likewise some companies can have huge profit margins and make f**k all. 

I know some of them are struggling but FTOF's post is interesting too.

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19 minutes ago, FTOF said:

Aye, watching the news seen it was over a short period.

Not trying to diminish the numbers but I'm more interested in the overall figures, shorter periods can send a different message.

If these numbers keep up then it'll be a major part of the numbers since the start of this. 

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Not sure exactly what can be done about care homes.

The residents are in THE most dangerous group.

This virus can get pretty much anywhere, once it gets into a care home then the chances of fatalities are certain. 

Again, most residents have a DNR order so there's little chance they will recover if they catch this virus, unlike the general public.

The staff in these places are living on their nerves every day.  

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Guest TPAFKATS
Is that not because profit margins are wafer thin at many care homes?
I've heard this before, esp from retired footballers who invested in the care home business a few years ago.

On the other hand, many care homes are owned by millionaires and care home groups are owned by hedge funds. So there's definitely still decent profit margins.
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The BBC news reporting the newspapers are indicating Monday seems to be back to normal for going out. :blink:

Feck me, people, well some nutters, will take this as a green light and the current numbers, still around double Italy/Spain, could start to rise. 

The media are utter fcukwits. :thumbsdown

 

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From the start, a contributory factor, to the ongoing (slightly) raised death rate in nursing homes, must be the fact that hospitals were releasing old people with cv19, back “into the safety of the community”... directly Into care homes, despite protests from care home providers.

Many did die, of course.

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BBC, the Telegraph and FT are all now convinced that the App being introduced by pro-brexit friends of the government is a piece of shit compared to that of Apple and Google.

and, of course, we all trust our data with the Tech Giants... rather than with friends of The Buffoon.

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London seems to be going back to work, unofficially...

The distant thrum of traffic noise can now be heard from North Circular (usually lost under the hum of air traffic).  The silence is gone.

Scaffolders are busy on sites that had been abandoned. Builders Yards and stockists like B+Q all operating again.

 

it’s so uncivilised- the pubs are still shut!  :(

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Guest TPAFKATS
From the start, a contributory factor, to the ongoing (slightly) raised death rate in nursing homes, must be the fact that hospitals were releasing old people with cv19, back “into the safety of the community”... directly Into care homes, despite protests from care home providers.
Many did die, of course.
I'm not sure what the process is in rest of UK but I'd like to think it is the same as Scotland. The first minister explained, once again, how that process works yesterday during an emotional FMQ at holyrood

If you are in hospital with Covid you need to have 2 negative tests before you are discharged.

If you don't have covid you need to quarantine for 14 days once you are discharged and go to a care home.
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35 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

I'm not sure what the process is in rest of UK but I'd like to think it is the same as Scotland. The first minister explained, once again, how that process works yesterday during an emotional FMQ at holyrood

If you are in hospital with Covid you need to have 2 negative tests before you are discharged.

If you don't have covid you need to quarantine for 14 days once you are discharged and go to a care home.

Ta for that.

iirc, think I read about I t on here:

https://www.ft.com/content/86d9807e-2a47-47b2-8dff-8ab50b16e036?sharetype=blocked?segmentID=635a35f9-12b4-dbf5-9fe6-6b8e6ffb143e

as you are likely aware, care homes couldn’t get testing kits, if any, in sufficient numbers to monitor discharged patients... or staff... and also tests are notoriously unreliable with false positives.

also... if people were allowed into hospital from care homes(which hospitals were trying to stop) then the only place they could be sent to “quarantine for 14 days” was back to the care homes.

catch 22.

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Guest TPAFKATS
Ta for that.
iirc, think I read about I t on here:
https://www.ft.com/content/86d9807e-2a47-47b2-8dff-8ab50b16e036?sharetype=blocked?segmentID=635a35f9-12b4-dbf5-9fe6-6b8e6ffb143e
as you are likely aware, care homes couldn’t get testing kits, if any, in sufficient numbers to monitor discharged patients... or staff... and also tests are notoriously unreliable with false positives.
also... if people were allowed into hospital from care homes(which hospitals were trying to stop) then the only place they could be sent to “quarantine for 14 days” was back to the care homes.
catch 22.
There's a long standing issue of controlling outbreaks and infections within care homes. There are always issues with winter vomiting and other d & v outbreaks.

Some of it is how they manage these things and they've never AFAIK been held to same standards as a NHS hospital. Care homes are peoples homes though not hospitals and tend to be mostly carpeted and soft furnished.

It's also better for some people to remain in their usual surroundings as opposed to go into hospital. There are also many studies showing how people, particularly the old and infirm deteriorate very quickly in a hospital environment.

Not saying that's the case with all in this situation and it's something that I'd assume will be reviewed after this is over.
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1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:

There's a long standing issue of controlling outbreaks and infections within care homes. There are always issues with winter vomiting and other d & v outbreaks.

Some of it is how they manage these things and they've never AFAIK been held to same standards as a NHS hospital. Care homes are peoples homes though not hospitals and tend to be mostly carpeted and soft furnished.

It's also better for some people to remain in their usual surroundings as opposed to go into hospital. There are also many studies showing how people, particularly the old and infirm deteriorate very quickly in a hospital environment.

Not saying that's the case with all in this situation and it's something that I'd assume will be reviewed after this is over.

Aye.

 

I would also hope so.

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On 5/6/2020 at 2:13 PM, oaksoft said:

I'm not so sure I'd agree with the sentiment "left to die" but it appears that they were forgotten about by the UK government. Whether that's actually true or not remains to be seen but I don't remember them talking about care homes much in the early days of this.

As for your comment about them being private companies and hence not open to innovative solutions, I just don't agree with that at all. Almost all meaningful innovation which affects our lives. that I can think of. comes from the private sector. The public sector are notoriously slow to change anything.

The care home sector seems to have been caught out on PPE shortages the same as every government in the world

BTW Is this sector not part of the remit of the Scottish government?

 The private sector relies on the state to provide good communications, both virtual & real, learning/research institutions and an educated workforce, it might be small of me to challenge your free market fetish at this point in time but as we will be living in a Keynesian world for the foreseeable future I felt compelled - I hope when we finally exit the Covid tunnel we don't hand it back to the plutocracy.

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"required criteria"...

This is not the first time we've had this bollox...

I have long wondered about things that are manufactured elsewhere (sourced and ordered by Uk) that are seemingly fine for the rest of the world but never in the end conform to UK standards...?

These Turkish companies have been churning out these things for quite a while now - why have their flawed products not been known about?  If they ARE flawed!

Is UK too picky? I know  that at times it was claimed the UK allegedly stuck to standards introduced to the EU, when other members allegedly didn't.  Is this a reality?  Do we build in obstacles to our own success, happiness and contentment?

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2 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

 The private sector relies on the state to provide good communications, both virtual & real, learning/research institutions and an educated workforce, it might be small of me to challenge your free market fetish at this point in time but as we will be living in a Keynesian world for the foreseeable future I felt compelled - I hope when we finally exit the Covid tunnel we don't hand it back to the plutocracy.

Nevertheless, it is the private sector which causes almost all of the major innovations we see around us. There's simply no getting away from that unless you can show me examples of innovation from the public sector (who presumably rely on exactly the same set of inputs as the private sector).

You are focussing on the wrong part of the process. Innovation is an output and you are focussing on the inputs.

Edited by oaksoft
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18 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Nevertheless, it is the private sector which causes almost all of the major innovations we see around us. There's simply no getting away from that unless you can show me examples of innovation from the public sector (who presumably rely on exactly the same set of inputs as the private sector).

You are focussing on the wrong part of the process. Innovation is an output and you are focussing on the inputs.

Hmm, I would have thought the inputs are highly significant to the outputs ???

All successful and socially just economies have strong public sector which leads to strong private sector. 

It also depends on what your definition of strong economy is, whether its profits alone or social justice and the balance between them

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1 hour ago, lenziebud said:

Hmm, I would have thought the inputs are highly significant to the outputs ???

All successful and socially just economies have strong public sector which leads to strong private sector. 

It also depends on what your definition of strong economy is, whether its profits alone or social justice and the balance between them

You are arguing against points I have not made.

We're talking about where innovation comes from.

If both public and private sector work shares the same inputs, why is it only the private sector which typically results in innovation? Why is the public sector lagging in this regard?

For example, why have we not created a publicly owned pharmaceutical research and production facility to prevent us relying on expensive drugs from the private sector?

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Guest TPAFKATS
You are arguing against points I have not made.
We're talking about where innovation comes from.
If both public and private sector work shares the same inputs, why is it only the private sector which typically results in innovation? Why is the public sector lagging in this regard?
For example, why have we not created a publicly owned pharmaceutical research and production facility to prevent us relying on expensive drugs from the private sector?
Didn't we have these in the last century but sold them off?
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