Coronavirus

[Guest TPAFKATS]

The guidance for England is dont come within 2 mts of someone. Avoid if possible public transport to get to work.

Yeah, he said they had been working on guidance. His actual words were
"And to ensure you are safe at work we have been working to establish new guidance for employers to make workplaces COVID-secure."
Unsurprisingly nothing has been posted on UK Gov website or on his own twitter feed though.

[oaksoft]

12 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

Yeah, he said they had been working on guidance. His actual words were
"And to ensure you are safe at work we have been working to establish new guidance for employers to make workplaces COVID-secure."
Unsurprisingly nothing has been posted on UK Gov website or on his own twitter feed though.
 

Google is your friend bud.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/news/social-distancing-coronavirus.htm

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance

 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Google is your friend bud.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/news/social-distancing-coronavirus.htm
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance
 

That's the previous guidance oakster. The gov.uk website was updated 4th May.

[oaksoft]

6 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

Google is your friend bud.
https://www.hse.gov.uk/news/social-distancing-coronavirus.htm
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/social-distancing-in-the-workplace-during-coronavirus-covid-19-sector-guidance
 

That's the previous guidance oakster. The gov.uk website was updated 4th May.

It doesn't matter. You implied that no covid advice was available for businesses. There absolutely is and it's been out there for weeks. That's all I wanted to clarify.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

It doesn't matter. You implied that no covid advice was available for businesses. There absolutely is and it's been out there for weeks. That's all I wanted to clarify.

Oh don't be ridiculous. Just admit you didn't check the dates.

[stlucifer]

8 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

Yeah, he said they had been working on guidance. His actual words were
"And to ensure you are safe at work we have been working to establish new guidance for employers to make workplaces COVID-secure."
Unsurprisingly nothing has been posted on UK Gov website or on his own twitter feed though.
 

It should not be guidance. It should be a rule enforced by government. Employers should be made to ensure the rules are applied by law.

[FTOF]

13 hours ago, smcc said:

 

Seems to me he was suggesting that the UK government's preoccupation with Brexit and Scottish independence over the past few years distracted them from making proper preparations for dealing with a pandemic.  

Exactly.

It's not rocket science and doesn't need data to back it up. Not that there would be any data for evidence anyway.

As you well know I'm wholly in favour of Independence, but not at the cost of the every day running of the country.

I feel that the SNP haven't performed to their best over the past couple of years, and one of the reasons is because they have focussed too much on Independence.

Brexit has had the same effect on the UK government IMO.

I don't need data to back up my opinion. It's there for all to see if some people take their blinkers off.

 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

 

 

 

Exactly.

It's not rocket science and doesn't need data to back it up. Not that there would be any data for evidence anyway.

As you well know I'm wholly in favour of Independence, but not at the cost of the every day running of the country.

I feel that the SNP haven't performed to their best over the past couple of years, and one of the reasons is because they have focussed too much on Independence.

Brexit has had the same effect on the UK government IMO.

I don't need data to back up my opinion. It's there for all to see if some people take their blinkers off.

 

 

I wasn't asking for data just some examples of how they hadn't planned for a pandemic due to Scottish independence.

 

Brexit at least was a tangible event. There were many speeches made and gov planning taking place. Even now we are are told it must still happen to plan and negotiations continue.

 

You "feel" and "in your opinion" - meh.

 

BTW, smcc said he felt you were alluding to UK Gov being obsessed with Scottish independence in his post that you quoted.

You indicated you were in full agreement with his post however you then go on to talk about SNP being too focused on Scottish independence.

 

In my opinion, its an oversight of yours but asking for clarification seems to be upsetting you.

 

[antrin]

1 hour ago, FTOF said:

Exactly.

It's not rocket science and doesn't need data to back it up. Not that there would be any data for evidence anyway.

As you well know I'm wholly in favour of Independence, but not at the cost of the every day running of the country.

I feel that the SNP haven't performed to their best over the past couple of years, and one of the reasons is because they have focussed too much on Independence.

Brexit has had the same effect on the UK government IMO.

I don't need data to back up my opinion. It's there for all to see if some people take their blinkers off.

 

I agree.

 

In both instances, it has been like designers arguing over what stripes should be on the deckchairs of the Titanic as it's sinking...

Edited May 11, 2020 by antrin

[antrin]

FT reporting NEW cases in Wuhan (5 cases in a single residential area and some coming in on flights)

AND in South Korea (75 linked to a man who went to night-clubs in Seoul).

Looks like their govts are on the cases..

[Guest TPAFKATS]

The Times (London, not Glasgow) reporting the care home cases on Skye caused by infected staff being brought in from Kent to fill shortages.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-kills-six-and-leaves-dozens-seriously-ill-at-skye-care-home-3g70vxbf6

[antrin]

That's interesting - and good.

They now seem to understand where it came from - it seemed a random, inexplicable happening for it to 'suddenly' arrive in that location on Skye.

If as it (the wee bit of article that I could access) suggests, the company concerned is known to be parsimonious then it's likely that there was limited PPE and diligent actual care.

 

Poor buggers on Skye.

[FTOF]

2 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

 

I wasn't asking for data just some examples of how they hadn't planned for a pandemic due to Scottish independence.

 

Brexit at least was a tangible event. There were many speeches made and gov planning taking place. Even now we are are told it must still happen to plan and negotiations continue.

 

You "feel" and "in your opinion" - meh.

 

BTW, smcc said he felt you were alluding to UK Gov being obsessed with Scottish independence in his post that you quoted.

You indicated you were in full agreement with his post however you then go on to talk about SNP being too focused on Scottish independence.

 

In my opinion, its an oversight of yours but asking for clarification seems to be upsetting you.

 

I think it's you that's getting upset, because you can't handle me apportioning some blame to the SNP. 

I did read smcc's post wrongly. But then again, you knew that and chose to indulge in whataboutery instead.

IMO it's our Scottish government that have been too obsessed with independence. Obviously it has to be a focus point, but IMO it should have been put on the back burner, for a later date. 

Quote

You "feel" and "in your opinion" - meh.

People's opinions and how they feel are exactly what influences the way that they vote. That's why we have opinion polls. 

If someone like myself who has voted SNP all of my life can see that the current government is not performing as well as it couls, then you have to wonder how the "floating" voters perceive this. 

Although, having said that, they are the only party in town that are capable of running the country.

Edited May 11, 2020 by FTOF

[lenziebud]

2 hours ago, FTOF said:

Exactly.

It's not rocket science and doesn't need data to back it up. Not that there would be any data for evidence anyway.

As you well know I'm wholly in favour of Independence, but not at the cost of the every day running of the country.

I feel that the SNP haven't performed to their best over the past couple of years, and one of the reasons is because they have focussed too much on Independence.

Brexit has had the same effect on the UK government IMO.

I don't need data to back up my opinion. It's there for all to see if some people take their blinkers off.

 

Hmm, is that not the big split in the SNP where Salmond supporters want to focus too much on Independence and Sturgeon is much more cautious and sensible as to the chances of obtaining it. I would have said they have tried to focus on solid government and delivery of policy. How you rate that is down to political opinion.

On COVID I think SNP and Sturgeon have handled it well so far and done the best they can do with the evidence and advice they have. 

The big test for Sturgeon is formulating how to get out of lockdown, much harder task than going into  lockdown as Boris has found out overnight.

[FTOF]

13 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

Hmm, is that not the big split in the SNP where Salmond supporters want to focus too much on Independence and Sturgeon is much more cautious and sensible as to the chances of obtaining it. I would have said they have tried to focus on solid government and delivery of policy. How you rate that is down to political opinion.

On COVID I think SNP and Sturgeon have handled it well so far and done the best they can do with the evidence and advice they have. 

The big test for Sturgeon is formulating how to get out of lockdown, much harder task than going into  lockdown as Boris has found out overnight.

Compared to the UK government , they have handled it much better.

I suggested in my original post that maybe the respective governments would have been better prepared if they had spent more time on their pandemic response action plans (or whatever they are called), rather than Brexit or Independence. I'm not sure why that seems an unreasonable assertion.

You are right about the split though. It's been rumbling on for a few years now and it has been a difficult job to appease both sides of the divide. IMO it has been a distraction, and could have affected what we are talking about.

There was an article about the divide in the Sunday Herald yesterday.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18438521.civil-war-snp-personalities-politics-battle-lines-means-independence-cause/

Edited May 11, 2020 by FTOF

[oaksoft]

3 hours ago, FTOF said:

Exactly.

It's not rocket science and doesn't need data to back it up. Not that there would be any data for evidence anyway.

As you well know I'm wholly in favour of Independence, but not at the cost of the every day running of the country.

I feel that the SNP haven't performed to their best over the past couple of years, and one of the reasons is because they have focussed too much on Independence.

Brexit has had the same effect on the UK government IMO.

I don't need data to back up my opinion. It's there for all to see if some people take their blinkers off.

 

If Boris came out with something like that you'd be the first to complain. 

[FTOF]

8 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

If Boris came out with something like that you'd be the first to complain. 

Deary me.

Another person who can't separate a situation where data can be used to help prove something and one where it's subjective. 

 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Hmm, is that not the big split in the SNP where Salmond supporters want to focus too much on Independence and Sturgeon is much more cautious and sensible as to the chances of obtaining it. I would have said they have tried to focus on solid government and delivery of policy. How you rate that is down to political opinion.
On COVID I think SNP and Sturgeon have handled it well so far and done the best they can do with the evidence and advice they have. 
The big test for Sturgeon is formulating how to get out of lockdown, much harder task than going into  lockdown as Boris has found out overnight.

Not sure it's Salmond supporters but there's a fair amount of independence supporters who I assume are snp voters complaining that snp weren't doing enough to move towards another referendum or independence.

That's their opinion, FTOF opinion is that they were too focused on it.

Still no actual evidence that they focused on it at the expense of not planning for coronavirus though.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

UK government guidance on how to follow what was announced by Johnson last night will be published on Wednesday.

Meanwhile, this morning London tube had rush hour numbers and motorways leading in London were slow and tailed back.

[lenziebud]

16 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Thanks for that.

As I thought, both got caught out just like virtually every other country. I really think there's limited mileage in overly criticising any government for being ill prepared in this sense.

If something truly contagious hits a population, all planning and preparation goes out the window overnight.

I was reading today that a massive stockpile of safety goggles purchased by the last Labour government turned out to fail safety tests and was rendered useless.

There are people out there not doing their jobs properly and blaming governments IMO gives these lazy, useless people an easy get-out.

Hmm, I think you'll find that the Labour Party will hang this round the governments head at next GE in the same way Tory party hung worldwide financial crash started in USA around Labour.

If you throw enough mud then some will stick no matter what the governments culpability is.

What goes around comes around. Something Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer will be keeping up their sleeve too. 

[oaksoft]

13 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

Hmm, I think you'll find that the Labour Party will hang this round the governments head at next GE in the same way Tory party hung worldwide financial crash started in USA around Labour.

If you throw enough mud then some will stick no matter what the governments culpability is.

What goes around comes around. Something Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer will be keeping up their sleeve too. 

I think the Tories are going to be in power for many, many years to come.

This will die down and after months and months of nothing but covid in the news, people will be sick and tired of it.

Then it will be on to Brexit and covid will be forgotten about.

If Labour DO get in, they'll be blamed for any economic problems and they'll be back out for another generation.

Starmer has a difficult job here.

[lenziebud]

7 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I think the Tories are going to be in power for many, many years to come.

This will die down and after months and months of nothing but covid in the news, people will be sick and tired of it.

Then it will be on to Brexit and covid will be forgotten about.

If Labour DO get in, they'll be blamed for any economic problems and they'll be back out for another generation.

Starmer has a difficult job here.

I disagree I think the next GE will be very close.

I don't underestimate Johnston at all but Starmer has the Tories worried already.

Johnston better be up on the detail or Starmer will cremate him.

[billyg]

BJ gives the EPL the go ahead to restart on June 1 

[FTOF]

1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:

Not sure it's Salmond supporters but there's a fair amount of independence supporters who I assume are snp voters complaining that snp weren't doing enough to move towards another referendum or independence.

That's their opinion, FTOF opinion is that they were too focused on it.

Still no actual evidence that they focused on it at the expense of not planning for coronavirus though.

https://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/uploads/docs/report/2019/nr_191024_nhs_overview.pdf

Have a look at this relating to our under performing NHS. There are elements of it that are linked to insufficient planning affecting overall patient health. I happen to believe that the government should be spending more time sorting out the ills of the NHS, than rattling on about Indy 2.

Only the most obstinate individual would deny that it is possible that the insufficient level of planning for the current pandemic, given that it is a health related issue, could have been down to time being spent on IMO, less important Independence matters.

 

 

[Bud the Baker]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

I think the Tories are going to be in power for many, many years to come.

This will die down and after months and months of nothing but covid in the news, people will be sick and tired of it.

Then it will be on to Brexit and covid will be forgotten about.

If Labour DO get in, they'll be blamed for any economic problems and they'll be back out for another generation.

Starmer has a difficult job here.

I initially thought that after the last GE but the current pandemic may be the defining event of this century and no-one knows how we will think in the aftermath - I personally hope for a Green/Red direction when we exit the Covid tunnel.

 

On the "have the SNP handled the pandemic well?" question - I'd say initially no but I think the convergence of the three smaller regions of the UK at the weekend put the brakes on BJs plans to relax the lockdown which has to be a good outcome. Certainly NS seems to be more "on top of her brief"   than the parade of Tory Ministers down south!

Edited May 11, 2020 by Bud the Baker