Coronavirus

[Ayrshire Saints]

Schools should have been back by now and exams could easily have gone ahead using social distancing.
What's causing a problem here is an overly cautious minority SNP government hedging their bets and the heavily unionised teaching profession taking full advantage.
The kids are literally the last people everyone is thinking about.

To be totally fair it's not an SNP issue, no better in England.

[Hendo]

2 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

The reason schools are closed is to try and control the outbreak and then prevent or manage a second wave.

What number of cases or deaths would be acceptable in order to have kids back at school in June?

Also, if its so remote why did England back track on schools after seeing cases spike within days of opening them.

If we adopted the same approach to everything in life, we wouldn't leave the house.

There is a much higher risk of being in a car accident, having a heart attack or developing cancer than there is of even catching Covid at the moment, far less dying of it.

It is amazing how fear can distort otherwise rational people's sense of reality. Three months ago, I was critical of both Government's for a response that was late, complacent and didn't take a very real threat seriously. Now, the threat has almost gone, people are having demonstrations, some justified and some clearly not, no-one is really paying attention to the rules any more and guess what, no spike in cases. Aye, but let's put kids on a part time timetable for a year, that's proportionate. Jeezo.

[Hendo]

And just to add, the people infected, the one in 1200, will probably be in clusters, as it still is a contagious disease. By all means, have localised restrictions to deal with localised outbreaks, but this national blanket approach is a fecking disaster.

[Ayrshire Saints]

And the solution is?

We require a route out. A confirmation that an agreed number of new cases over a specified time scale equates to an ability to return to what was normal before C19. We need this specification laid our by the SG to tie in with their road map which is far too vague . The road map was viable weeks ago when the numbers in Scotland were higher but we now need an absolute specification i.e. a specific number of new cases for X number of days means a return to what is perceived by the public to be an acceptable norm. I was a full believer in the lock down but the numbers now simply do not compute. The public need to be given their head, we need to get society back to normal, the measures worked and need to be relaxed.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

If we adopted the same approach to everything in life, we wouldn't leave the house.
There is a much higher risk of being in a car accident, having a heart attack or developing cancer than there is of even catching Covid at the moment, far less dying of it.
It is amazing how fear can distort otherwise rational people's sense of reality. Three months ago, I was critical of both Government's for a response that was late, complacent and didn't take a very real threat seriously. Now, the threat has almost gone, people are having demonstrations, some justified and some clearly not, no-one is really paying attention to the rules any more and guess what, no spike in cases. Aye, but let's put kids on a part time timetable for a year, that's proportionate. Jeezo.

I think you could do with a dose of that rational reality you talk about.

We need to tred carefully with this however there's no reason for schools to be on a part time timetable for a year if we get a good outcome from this. That includes not getting a second wave.

[Hendo]

7 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

2 hours ago, jaybee said:

And the solution is?

We require a route out. A confirmation that an agreed number of new cases over a specified time scale equates to an ability to return to what was normal before C19. We need this specification laid our by the SG to tie in with their road map which is far too vague . The road map was viable weeks ago when the numbers in Scotland were higher but we now need an absolute specification i.e. a specific number of new cases for X number of days means a return to what is perceived by the public to be an acceptable norm. I was a full believer in the lock down but the numbers now simply do not compute. The public need to be given their head, we need to get society back to normal, the measures worked and need to be relaxed.

Well said. Unfortunately, having a sensible position on this risks us being in the same camp as the assorted right wing nutjobs who frequent this forum ranting about how the lockdown, even when it was justified, was affecting our freedoms. It's a very strange world right now.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

And just to add, the people infected, the one in 1200, will probably be in clusters, as it still is a contagious disease. By all means, have localised restrictions to deal with localised outbreaks, but this national blanket approach is a fecking disaster.

You do realise that we are easing out of lockdown. Gonnae just be patient for another couple of weeks.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

We require a route out. A confirmation that an agreed number of new cases over a specified time scale equates to an ability to return to what was normal before C19. We need this specification laid our by the SG to tie in with their road map which is far too vague . The road map was viable weeks ago when the numbers in Scotland were higher but we now need an absolute specification i.e. a specific number of new cases for X number of days means a return to what is perceived by the public to be an acceptable norm. I was a full believer in the lock down but the numbers now simply do not compute. The public need to be given their head, we need to get society back to normal, the measures worked and need to be relaxed.

I don't think we are going back to what was normal before this.

[Hendo]

Just now, TPAFKATS said:

12 minutes ago, Hendo said:

And just to add, the people infected, the one in 1200, will probably be in clusters, as it still is a contagious disease. By all means, have localised restrictions to deal with localised outbreaks, but this national blanket approach is a fecking disaster.

You do realise that we are easing out of lockdown. Gonnae just be patient for another couple of weeks.

If we are easing out of lockdown, why are kids going to be at school part time for possibly up to a year. The Government position is crazy.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

If we are easing out of lockdown, why are kids going to be at school part time for possibly up to a year. The Government position is crazy.

These are 2 seperate things. Kids back at school, even 'part time' isn't lockdown.

[Hendo]

2 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

5 minutes ago, Hendo said:

If we are easing out of lockdown, why are kids going to be at school part time for possibly up to a year. The Government position is crazy.

These are 2 seperate things. Kids back at school, even 'part time' isn't lockdown.

Can you explain the rationale for it on a national basis, when cases are very low. Why is there a nationwide policy to keep all schools on a part-time basis, rather than having a localised, community based response where action is taken if any clusters or localised outbreaks occur. 

[oaksoft]

3 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

I'd love to hear the logistics of the exams being cancelled then going ahead during June instead.
Also the reason schools are off us because there's little course workactually done during June so it makes sense to keep them off to allow further recovery and reduction in cases of covid.

They tried to send the schools back in England and quickly had to do a u turn.

It was a mistake to cancel the exams so early. They could easily have been moved to June or July.

The case for suspending the rest of school until August is easier to make but IMO this has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with the things I listed. That has definitely rattled my cage.

 

[St.Ricky]

5 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

It was a mistake to cancel the exams so early. They could easily have been moved to June or July.

The case for suspending the rest of school until August is easier to make but IMO this has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with the things I listed. That has definitely rattled my cage.

 

Experience has shown that your cage is easily and often rattled. 

[oaksoft]

5 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

The reason schools are closed is to try and control the outbreak and then prevent or manage a second wave.

What number of cases or deaths would be acceptable in order to have kids back at school in June?

Also, if its so remote why did England back track on schools after seeing cases spike within days of opening them.

To be fair, England backtracked because the unions took advantage of the situation. Same in Scotland.

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

6 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Schools should have been back by now and exams could easily have gone ahead using social distancing.
What's causing a problem here is an overly cautious minority SNP government hedging their bets and the heavily unionised teaching profession taking full advantage.
The kids are literally the last people everyone is thinking about.

To be totally fair it's not an SNP issue, no better in England.

Agreed but at least in England they don't have that added difficulty of being a minority government.

Up here the SNP have to keep people onside and unfortunately the teaching unions are exploiting that.

[faraway saint]

England opening up again today, the usual scaremongers will be screaming about a 2nd spike, been screaming about this for weeks TBH.

Shops, at some expense and hassle, all ready to welcome customers.

It'll take a while for the public to feel confident enough to return in numbers, but they will. 

PS maybe they will return quicker than I thought, massive queues outside shops in Birmingham. 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by faraway saint

[ALBIONSAINT]

Black lives matter. But do their working conditions matter? Large queues outside primark would say not really. Isn’t it hypocritical to voice your concerns about black peoples lives, then queue up on the first day a retailer opens who has a history of poor working conditions In its oversea supply chain. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by ALBIONSAINT
Spelling mistake

[faraway saint]

More trash reporting from the BBC.

An item about people deciding to go shopping or not and they speak to a lady who is in the "no, not yet" camp.

It turns out she's shielding.

A fair viewpoint in this debate? 

A very firm "no" IMO. 

[St.Ricky]

6000 people attend illegal rave in Manchester. Silly people. PS This thread is on of the Arbroath Buddies best on the Forum 

[Cookie Monster]

So glad Faraway is one the ball. [emoji2957]

[Bud the Baker]

12 hours ago, theknickerwetter said:

Your sad delusional day where everything is either right or left wing is obfuscated by a thick, red mist . Not only do you not know how the world works , as you have elected the guardian to do your thinking for you , but it would seem you do not know how your mind and body work either , which is probably why you have been counting death tolls like it's an Olympic medal on the tv and washing your hands like you have ocd and you're probably sitting there right now, wearing your mask and gloves . Pilchard will let you pat yourself on the back soon for staying indoors...................................................................................

Thick, red mist, that's rich coming from a guy who can't use our First Minister's real name - your lack of self awareness shines through in every post.

PS - In the Pepsi Challenge I still reckon the BBC & The Guardian win hands down when compared with the Alt-Right snowflakes you prefer.  

 

[Cookie Monster]

https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/14/tottenham-release-statement-norwich-player-tests-positive-coronavirus-following-friendly-12849610/

 

Tottenham Hotspur have released a statement insisting the Norwich player who tested positive for coronavirus did not share any ‘close contacts’ with their squad during Friday’s friendly.

 

 

To summarise, the procedures put in place have failed.

 

 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

To be fair, England backtracked because the unions took advantage of the situation. Same in Scotland.

Johnson's government, which had a compliant press running stories demanding schools open, caved in to the teaching unions?

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Can you explain the rationale for it on a national basis, when cases are very low. Why is there a nationwide policy to keep all schools on a part-time basis, rather than having a localised, community based response where action is taken if any clusters or localised outbreaks occur. 

I believe the rationale is to hopefully ease through time.
The point of keeping these restrictions is to eliminate cases and then reopen. Pretty much the opposite of what we see today with shops reopening in England.

This could then result in local action being taken if cases emerge. However... we have 20odd Cooncils, all varying in size, each with an education dept. Where you could close down a city's schools due to an outbreak, this would be difficult elsewhere.

[faraway saint]

2 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

 

 

I believe the rationale is to hopefully ease through time.
The point of keeping these restrictions is to eliminate cases and then reopen. Pretty much the opposite of what we see today with shops reopening in England.

This could then result in local action being taken if cases emerge. However... we have 20odd Cooncils, all varying in size, each with an education dept. Where you could close down a city's schools due to an outbreak, this would be difficult elsewhere.

 

England are doing, with similar numbers, to what every other country has done.