Coronavirus

[FTOF]

My mate was speaking to a guy who is a regional manager for Greene and King who own about 3000 pubs in the UK, with some in Scotland. Coincidentally Bag O' nails is one of them.

He said that the norm in their pubs will be ordering and paying for drinks by App with delivery to table. They already had an App before all this with about a 20% uptake.

He also said that they will need to employ extra staff to ensure that social distancing is observed, and that there will be someone stationed in the bogs to ensure hygiene measures are adhered to.

My mate was also talking to one of his customers in Norway, who mentioned that he was just off to the pub. They've been open for a month or so now in Norway apparently. He said that social distancing works well until the volume of alcohol consumed increases and, unsurprisingly, rules go out of the window.

The first day that pubs re-open in Scotland is going to be interesting.

 

[faraway saint]

I can see chaos for parents when the new term starts................without "normal" school days/hours working parents could have insurmountable problems.

 

[Tommy]

On Friday, Tennents were collecting empty and out of date full kegs.[emoji106]

Buggers could have just rolls the full kegs down to me before they went out of date [emoji22]

[Ayrshire Saints]

Isle of Man totally scrapped all measures today after a month of zero new cases. They have pubs etc with no SD and sports events with spectators again no SD. Full normality as we knew it.

[jaybee]

23 hours ago, faraway saint said:

23 hours ago, jaybee said:

 

Ok Faraway how about we put Shull in charge instead of NS in Edinburgh or even of the SFA, my point being ........................anyway I am sure you get my point re who discusses what and It is simply my opinion.

 

That's a cop out and certainly NOT what I was saying and not what you were insinuating. 

The forum is mostly about opinions, although @TPAFKATS is incapable without using Google. 

As I indicated people using hindsight to beat the government are simply losing any credibility they think they have. 

 

Yes it is a cop out; but it does make my point and to be honest I was (within my argument) speaking of Engerlund which is where I currently live

yes opinions are the fuel of discussion

we are in agreement here re hindsight it would appear

[jaybee]

23 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

23 hours ago, jaybee said:

 

Ok Faraway how about we put Shull in charge instead of NS in Edinburgh or even of the SFA, my point being ........................anyway I am sure you get my point re who discusses what and It is simply my opinion.

Ricky: regarding Scotland and NOT the UK, there are some valid points  in the way New Zealand dealt with the virus, just was never going to happen that way in England and again as I said to Faraway I am of the opinion that the UK government did OK, not great but OK and it does seem to become a circular discussion, if this if that and so forth. Not a fan of NS but she seems to have met the challenge and did a reasonable job...........so what do I know?

FM can speak for himself. 

Somewhat of an understatement

[jaybee]

22 hours ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

On 6/14/2020 at 8:29 PM, jaybee said:

And the solution is?

We require a route out. A confirmation that an agreed number of new cases over a specified time scale equates to an ability to return to what was normal before C19. We need this specification laid our by the SG to tie in with their road map which is far too vague . The road map was viable weeks ago when the numbers in Scotland were higher but we now need an absolute specification i.e. a specific number of new cases for X number of days means a return to what is perceived by the public to be an acceptable norm. I was a full believer in the lock down but the numbers now simply do not compute. The public need to be given their head, we need to get society back to normal, the measures worked and need to be relaxed.

Don't think many would disagree with your aim, but it's all about the speed at which it happens and given that we are speaking of life and death matters here a lot of people favour a sower opening up of society and hgiven that if things do go tits up it will be the governments fault so one can't blame them for their lack of speed.

[St.Ricky]

1 hour ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Isle of Man totally scrapped all measures today after a month of zero new cases. They have pubs etc with no SD and sports events with spectators again no SD. Full normality as we knew it.

A self governing island. 

[Hendo]

6 hours ago, faraway saint said:

While business's continue to suffer.

Wait and see when redundancies are announced, it'll be down to Boris. 

The UK government has entirely mishandled this and deserve all the pelters they get.

However, it amazes me that the Scottish Government have got off so lightly. Just because NS speaks more eloquently than BJ and presents herself better doesn't mean their handling of it has been better. The current ultra cautious approach is a shambles and will undoubtedly cause untold damage.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

The UK government has entirely mishandled this and deserve all the pelters they get.
However, it amazes me that the Scottish Government have got off so lightly. Just because NS speaks more eloquently than BJ and presents herself better doesn't mean their handling of it has been better. The current ultra cautious approach is a shambles and will undoubtedly cause untold damage.

It's not ultra cautious.
Its attempting to get cases to as low a level as possible in order to get some normality back to our day to day life and interactions.

The alternative is England where despite rising r number today they opened shops, zoos and theme parks.

[St.Ricky]

10 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

It's not ultra cautious.
Its attempting to get cases to as low a level as possible in order to get some normality back to our day to day life and interactions.

The alternative is England where despite rising r number today they opened shops, zoos and theme parks.

Without being political with a big P I prefer the people centred approach up here. Money is cheap just now. Lives aren't. NS has the drawback of not having control of all of the levers of Government. Old Blow Job is unhindered but blunders on taking us with him. 

[Hendo]

20 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

It's not ultra cautious.
Its attempting to get cases to as low a level as possible in order to get some normality back to our day to day life and interactions.

The alternative is England where despite rising r number today they opened shops, zoos and theme parks.

The problem with the Scottish Governments approach is there is a whole series of unintended consequences. Surgeons are saying waiting times for routine operations could treble - these still aren't being carried out. Screening for cancer has stopped. GPs seemed to pack up and go home at the start of this, instead of being at the forefront of dealing with this, where they should have been. And that's all even before we get to the impact on children and people's mental health.

All of this is because around one person in 1200 has Covid (and that was ten days ago, so it's likely to be even less prevalent now). There needs to be a localised, community based response to this rather than a blanket national approach. 

The government, on both sides of the border but especially up here, remind me of an old boss I used to have in social work. She would under-react to risk, and then, when it went pear shaped, would over-compensate by over reacting. Used to do my head in.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

The problem with the Scottish Governments approach is there is a whole series of unintended consequences. Surgeons are saying waiting times for routine operations could treble - these still aren't being carried out. Screening for cancer has stopped. GPs seemed to pack up and go home at the start of this, instead of being at the forefront of dealing with this, where they should have been. And that's all even before we get to the impact on children and people's mental health.
All of this is because around one person in 1200 has Covid (and that was ten days ago, so it's likely to be even less prevalent now). There needs to be a localised, community based response to this rather than a blanket national approach. 
The government, on both sides of the border but especially up here, remind me of an old boss I used to have in social work. She would under-react to risk, and then, when it went pear shaped, would over-compensate by over reacting. Used to do my head in.

NHS services are re starting. Some never stopped. I agree that GPs appear to have been invisible and non contactable.

However, you don't appear to understand what is at stake and why the release from lockdown is slow.
The idea is that it stops serious rises in cases.
New Zealand realised this in March and change course. They now aim to eradicate covid and if cases arise have staged plans in place.
Scotland appears to be closer to this while England is a lesser version of USA approach of open up economy and live with it. Or rather accept the deaths.

It's difficult continuing as each week passes but this really is a better approach in medium to long term.

[Hendo]

1 minute ago, TPAFKATS said:

NHS services are re starting. Some never stopped. I agree that GPs appear to have been invisible and non contactable.

However, you don't appear to understand what is at stake and why the release from lockdown is slow.
The idea is that it stops serious rises in cases.
New Zealand realised this in March and change course. They now aim to eradicate covid and if cases arise have staged plans in place.
Scotland appears to be closer to this while England is a lesser version of USA approach of open up economy and live with it. Or rather accept the deaths.

It's difficult continuing as each week passes but this really is a better approach in medium to long term.

Numbers in NZ never got high because they locked down their borders. We didn't do that here which led to the high number of deaths. They needed a local, community based approach to this. Even now, there is still a national approach. Listen to Dr John Ashton about how the Government got this wrong - he said it on Question Time back in March and was rounded on by the establishment but he was right. 

The Governments under-reacted in March and are now massively over-reacting. Local outbreaks, if they happen, need local action, not blanket national policies so that Nicola, or the fannies in Westminster, can feel important. 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Numbers in NZ never got high because they locked down their borders. We didn't do that here which led to the high number of deaths. They needed a local, community based approach to this. Even now, there is still a national approach. Listen to Dr John Ashton about how the Government got this wrong - he said it on Question Time back in March and was rounded on by the establishment but he was right. 
The Governments under-reacted in March and are now massively over-reacting. Local outbreaks, if they happen, need local action, not blanket national policies so that Nicola, or the fannies in Westminster, can feel important. 

NZ also maintained a hard lockdown. They are now out of that however their border remains closed.

Can you explain how a local community lockdown works? People don't spend all their time in their local community.

[St.Ricky]

6 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

NZ also maintained a hard lockdown. They are now out of that however their border remains closed.

Can you explain how a local community lockdown works? People don't spend all their time in their local community.

I think that transport links are cut for all but essential supplies and car drivers prevented from entering or leaving. Permission required to travel has been another tool used. 

[faraway saint]

8 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

It's not ultra cautious.
Its attempting to get cases to as low a level as possible in order to get some normality back to our day to day life and interactions.

The alternative is England where despite rising r number today they opened shops, zoos and theme parks.

It's more than ultra cautions, our "R" number is more than low enough to open up society.

The latest data indicated that on 5 June the so-called R-number was between 0.6 and 0.8 -

Killing business's, the new SNP slogan.

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by faraway saint

[faraway saint]

8 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

It's not ultra cautious.
Its attempting to get cases to as low a level as possible in order to get some normality back to our day to day life and interactions.

The alternative is England where despite rising r number today they opened shops, zoos and theme parks.

Have you lost you main skill in using Google......................you know how you love an expert/professor/scientific adviser...............

However, on Friday, June 5, Sir Patrick Vallance, the Government's chief scientific adviser, said the reproduction rate for England was between 0.7 and 1 and it remained between 0.7 and 0.9 for the UK as a whole.

Sir Patrick said the prevalence of coronavirus was on a "downward trajectory" in the UK, 

 

[faraway saint]

Italy, remember them, came out of lock down over a moth ago, 4th May.

Guess what.................................But Italy's infection rate has fallen sharply in recent days.

[Ayrshire Saints]

2 new cases in NZ confirmed overnight, source believed to be 2 UK nationals who travelled for a family funeral. Interesting to see if they can shut this down instantly.

[smcc]

AFAIK they were not quarantined on arrival in NZ but were allowed to visit a dying relative. I have no idea how long they have been in NZ but there is obviously  an opportunity for further spread.

[faraway saint]

18 minutes ago, smcc said:

AFAIK they were not quarantined on arrival in NZ but were allowed to visit a dying relative. I have no idea how long they have been in NZ but there is obviously  an opportunity for further spread.

They were, but were released early to reach the relative who was dying. They had arrived on 7th June.

The pair were released early from government quarantine and permitted to drive from the city of Auckland to Wellington, the capital – nearly 650km away –

The women – one aged in her 30s and the other in her 40s – had arrived in Auckland on a flight from the UK via Brisbane, Australia, on 7 June, Bloomfield said

 

Edited June 16, 2020 by faraway saint

[faraway saint]

9 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

NZ also maintained a hard lockdown. They are now out of that however their border remains closed.

Can you explain how a local community lockdown works? People don't spend all their time in their local community.

Ask China, they're doing that right now after 27 new INFECTIONS had appeared in a certain area. 

[St.Ricky]

The story. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/16/new-zealand-records-first-new-covid-19-cases-after-women-arrive-from-uk-carrying-virus

[ALBIONSAINT]

2 hours ago, faraway saint said:

It's more than ultra cautions, our "R" number is more than low enough to open up society.

The latest data indicated that on 5 June the so-called R-number was between 0.6 and 0.8 -

Killing business's, the new SNP slogan.

 

Interesting factoid, the the R number for measles is 15 although less fatal it does give a bit of context when you realise the COVID R number is between 0.6 and 0.8